Billboard vs. YouTube | Matt Connarton Unleashed

0:00 Speaker 1: Industry news.

0:00 Speaker 2: Hopefully it's interesting to you music business worldwide reporting that

0:05 Speaker 2: Billboard just made free streams worth more on its US charts.

0:10 Speaker 2: YouTube is not happy and is pulling its data. So Billboard,

0:16 Speaker 2: of course, you know, they've got their their various charts.

0:18 Speaker 2: I used to love when I was a kid, because

0:20 Speaker 2: I was a music industry nerd, probably starting in high school.

0:27 Speaker 2: I would I remember going to the school library and

0:30 Speaker 2: I would always look for the newest Billboard magazine and

0:33 Speaker 2: I would read that. That's how much of a music

0:35 Speaker 2: industry nerd I was from a very young age. You know,

0:38 Speaker 2: obviously I played an instrument and I was into playing music,

0:41 Speaker 2: but I was also very fascinated by the music business.

0:44 Speaker 2: So I would read Billboard. I wouldn't necessarily read it

0:47 Speaker 2: cover to cover. There's some things I wouldn't necessarily pay

0:49 Speaker 2: attention to, but I always like to look at the charts.

0:51 Speaker 2: You know, you've got the Billboard Hot one hundred, and

0:53 Speaker 2: you've got you've got all these different charts in Billboard.

0:55 Speaker 2: And of course now you can access it all online

0:57 Speaker 2: if you have a subscription, which I don't because I'm

1:00 Speaker 2: not gonna spend that money. But but the way that billboards.

1:06 Speaker 2: So the way that Billboard used to back in the day,

1:09 Speaker 2: back in my day, the way that is, you know,

1:14 Speaker 2: what would go into the into calculating the chart positions

1:17 Speaker 2: would be metrics like sales, because back then singles would

1:23 Speaker 2: you know, you would have singles. You would have you

1:25 Speaker 2: had Vinyl forty five records if you go way back.

1:28 Speaker 2: But of course you also had cut singles. If you

1:31 Speaker 2: remember cus singles. I was in a band called the

1:34 Speaker 2: Jenkston We used to joke that we were going to

1:35 Speaker 2: release a single.

1:37 Speaker 1: We never did.

1:38 Speaker 2: And of course you had CD singles and so forth,

1:40 Speaker 2: so you had single sales, but you also of course

1:45 Speaker 2: had radio airplay. Radio airplay would play a big role

1:50 Speaker 2: in how Billboard would calculate the charts, and I'm sure

1:54 Speaker 2: it still does obviously. But and also MTV. I don't

1:58 Speaker 2: know if but I don't think MTV. I don't think

2:02 Speaker 2: rotation of a music video on MTV was ever a

2:06 Speaker 2: part of the data that Billboard would use. I could

2:08 Speaker 2: be mistaken about that, but I don't think that it was.

2:12 Speaker 2: I don't think they ever.

2:12 Speaker 1: Used that data.

2:14 Speaker 2: As far as the charts, I think it was all

2:15 Speaker 2: airplay and sales, not not MTV or VH one or

2:19 Speaker 2: anything like that. Again, I'm pretty sure I'm right about that.

2:22 Speaker 2: But but so today it's all different, right, because we

2:25 Speaker 2: have the Internet. So today things that go into Billboard

2:29 Speaker 2: charts are things like, uh, you know, how many people

2:32 Speaker 2: are listening to a song online?

2:34 Speaker 1: Radio airplay is still, of course a big part.

2:35 Speaker 2: Of it, but but online, what's happening online? You know,

2:40 Speaker 2: it's much more complicated now, right, It's it's because it

2:43 Speaker 2: used to be. If you're if the only data points

2:46 Speaker 2: you're using are you know, you can have a concrete

2:48 Speaker 2: number you can look at, right, how many did this

2:51 Speaker 2: track sell in terms of singles?

2:55 Speaker 1: How many did it sell in the stores?

2:58 Speaker 2: And you know radio stage when they report their playlist data,

3:02 Speaker 2: you know how many spins did this get? Okay, these

3:04 Speaker 2: are these are metrics that we can use and calculate,

3:09 Speaker 2: and you know they have whatever formulas they use, obviously

3:11 Speaker 2: one ways more than the other. But but you figure

3:14 Speaker 2: it out, right, you have hard numbers to look at,

3:16 Speaker 2: and I guess you still have hard numbers to look at.

3:18 Speaker 2: But now it's like streaming, you know, and you've got

3:22 Speaker 2: many different streaming services and it's a lot, right, So

3:26 Speaker 2: it's all much more complicated now. One of the ways

3:30 Speaker 2: that people access music to listen to his YouTube. It's

3:34 Speaker 2: the easiest way, you know. You can go on YouTube

3:36 Speaker 2: finds us about anything. You're not going to get as

3:39 Speaker 2: high a quality file as you would if you actually

3:43 Speaker 2: purchase a wave file or an MP three. A wave

3:46 Speaker 2: sounds better than an MP three, a CD sounds better

3:49 Speaker 2: than either one, and a vinyl record sounds better than

3:51 Speaker 2: all of it. But but you can go on YouTube

3:56 Speaker 2: and just listen to music, and that's what a lot

3:59 Speaker 2: of people do. That's how a lot of people discover

4:01 Speaker 2: new music is YouTube. So here's what's happening. Just give

4:04 Speaker 2: you some context for what we're talking about here. So

4:07 Speaker 2: getting back to the story, so YouTube says again this

4:11 Speaker 2: is from music business worldwide dot com. YouTube says it

4:14 Speaker 2: will soon stop providing data to Billboard for inclusion in

4:19 Speaker 2: the US charts, ending a partnership that has lasted more

4:23 Speaker 2: than a decade. The decision, announced on December seventeenth by

4:27 Speaker 2: Lee or Cohen, YouTube's global head of music, comes just

4:31 Speaker 2: one day after Billboard revealed changes to its chart methodology

4:37 Speaker 2: that will actually narrow the waiting gap between paid and

4:42 Speaker 2: ad sponsored streams, So the waiting gap, and I did

4:45 Speaker 2: refer to it, but so different metrics have different weight,

4:49 Speaker 2: so you might have However, many paid streams might have

4:55 Speaker 2: a certain weight AD supported streams which are free. You know,

4:59 Speaker 2: like if you you go to listen to a song

5:01 Speaker 2: on YouTube, but before you can actually hear the song,

5:04 Speaker 2: you've got an AD that you have to click skip on,

5:06 Speaker 2: or you have two ads, one you can't skip and

5:08 Speaker 2: then the second one you can. That's usually how it

5:10 Speaker 2: seems to go, right, So that's an AD supported stream,

5:14 Speaker 2: So that's free. So in theory, paid streams would weigh

5:18 Speaker 2: more if you're calculating where on the chart this track

5:22 Speaker 2: is gonna go, this single, you're gonna you know, because

5:24 Speaker 2: people who are actually paying for the stream or for

5:28 Speaker 2: the track, I should say, people are like if they're

5:30 Speaker 2: paying to download it, for example, then you know they

5:33 Speaker 2: might care about it a little bit more than people

5:35 Speaker 2: who are just going on YouTube and listening to it

5:37 Speaker 2: for free, so you weigh that. So so they've narrowed

5:43 Speaker 2: the gap between in terms of what each of those

5:46 Speaker 2: metrics weighs paid versus free Essentially okay, under Billboard's current

5:51 Speaker 2: formula for the Billboard two hundred. One album unit equals

5:59 Speaker 2: two hundred fifty paid subscription streams or three thousand, seven

6:03 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty AD supported streams, a one to three

6:06 Speaker 2: ratio Billboard's new methodology announced yesterday, Well, this was this

6:13 Speaker 2: one up a few days ago. Announced on December sixteenth,

6:15 Speaker 2: Titans that ratio to one to two point five, with

6:20 Speaker 2: one album unit now equally one thousand paid streams or

6:23 Speaker 2: twenty five hundred AD supported streams. The same ratio is

6:27 Speaker 2: being applied to the Hot one hundred chart. In other words,

6:31 Speaker 2: paid streams. This is the This is the important part.

6:34 Speaker 2: Paid streams will still be weighted more favorably than AD

6:38 Speaker 2: supported plays, but by a smaller margin than before.

6:44 Speaker 1: That's interesting.

6:46 Speaker 2: Yet, in a statement today Lee or Cohen said the

6:48 Speaker 2: changes do not go far enough YouTube.

6:52 Speaker 1: This is why YouTube is not happy.

6:55 Speaker 2: YouTube wants all streams to be counted equally on Billboards charts,

7:00 Speaker 2: regardless of whether they come from paid subscriptions or add

7:04 Speaker 2: supported services. Before we go any further what Cohen said,

7:08 Speaker 2: let me just say this. I would think that that

7:12 Speaker 2: would be a hell of a lot easier for Billboard.

7:16 Speaker 3: Right because if they did it that way, if they

7:19 Speaker 3: took his his suggestion, just stop giving anything more weight

7:25 Speaker 3: than anything else.

7:26 Speaker 2: You just count it. You just count it all. Just

7:29 Speaker 2: the numbers are. What the numbers are. You count it all.

7:32 Speaker 2: You add it up. There's your numbers. Because it just

7:36 Speaker 2: seems like it would be a lot easier. Now, maybe

7:40 Speaker 2: maybe I say that because as someone who's not good

7:42 Speaker 2: at math, I want math and numbers to be easy.

7:46 Speaker 2: That's my natural I have a natural impulse. I have

7:49 Speaker 2: a bias there, right, I want I always want math

7:51 Speaker 2: and numbers to be easy, because I'm not good at math.

7:56 Speaker 2: But you know, it does seem like it would be simpler, right,

7:59 Speaker 2: It'd be a lot more efficient. I mean, they still

8:05 Speaker 2: I can't imagine how many data analysts Billboard has working

8:08 Speaker 2: for them. I'm sure it's a lot. But here's what

8:12 Speaker 2: Cohen said in his statement. Though, he said quote Billboard

8:15 Speaker 2: uses an outdated formula that weights subscription supported streams higher

8:20 Speaker 2: than ads supported. This doesn't reflect how fans engage with

8:25 Speaker 2: music today and ignores the massive engagement from fans who

8:30 Speaker 2: don't have a subscription. We believe every fan matters and

8:34 Speaker 2: every play should count equally. Therefore, after January sixteen, YouTube

8:40 Speaker 2: data will no longer be delivered or factored into the

8:45 Speaker 2: US Billboard charts unquote. Now, in thinking about that, how

8:56 Speaker 2: does that affect How does that affect artists and.

8:58 Speaker 1: Labels and.

9:00 Speaker 2: Everybody who has music streaming on YouTube? Well, if you're

9:06 Speaker 2: getting a lot of streams on YouTube or at well

9:09 Speaker 2: here's here's something. What if you're an artist who does

9:13 Speaker 2: not put your music on Spotify because you're mad about

9:19 Speaker 2: how little Spotify pays out, which is a whole other subject.

9:22 Speaker 2: I'm not trying to take that side street, but I'm

9:24 Speaker 2: just it works for this example. Say you're an artist

9:29 Speaker 2: and there's a lot of them. There's both established artists

9:32 Speaker 2: who pulled their music from Spotify because they're mad, and

9:34 Speaker 2: there's independent artists. There's small artists who just don't want

9:38 Speaker 2: to put their music on Spotify, which I personally think

9:40 Speaker 2: is a mistake. I think you should still put your

9:42 Speaker 2: music on Spotify, even if you're not happy that they

9:44 Speaker 2: don't pay you anything. Because discoverability is a term that

9:49 Speaker 2: I like to use and that we use in the

9:50 Speaker 2: industry that you have to make your music discoverable in

9:53 Speaker 2: order for people to discover it. So you want to

9:55 Speaker 2: be in as many places as possible. That's my philosophy.

9:58 Speaker 2: Some people disagree. We've had guests on the show show

10:00 Speaker 2: who disagree.

10:00 Speaker 1: That's fine. But what if you're not on Spotify for.

10:05 Speaker 2: Whatever reasons, whatever your reasons are, and so YouTube is

10:09 Speaker 2: your fallback. YouTube is where people are gonna find you

10:11 Speaker 2: and you want to be charting. Now, if you're an

10:14 Speaker 2: unsigned or small independent artist, you know you might maybe

10:19 Speaker 2: it doesn't matter to you because you know that you're

10:21 Speaker 2: not going to chart, you know, unless you get like,

10:24 Speaker 2: unless you blow up, you know, unless you get really big,

10:28 Speaker 2: you're not going to even have a shot at charting

10:31 Speaker 2: in Billboard anyway. So maybe it doesn't matter to you.

10:34 Speaker 2: But if that's the long term goal, it should matter

10:39 Speaker 2: to you. So if you are not on Spotify, or

10:43 Speaker 2: if you are on Spotify, but that's not where you're

10:48 Speaker 2: catching fire. You're catching fire on YouTube. That's where you're

10:52 Speaker 2: getting the spins, the plays spins more of a radio term,

10:57 Speaker 2: but the plays, you're the streams on YouTube. You want

11:00 Speaker 2: those numbers to count, do you not? So this is

11:04 Speaker 2: this is going to upset some people. So let me actually,

11:15 Speaker 2: let me read this from Cohen's quote again, because I

11:18 Speaker 2: just want to make sure. This is the most important

11:21 Speaker 2: thing that he says here. Streaming is the primary way

11:23 Speaker 2: people experience music, making up eighty four percent of US

11:26 Speaker 2: recorded music revenue. We're simply asking that every stream has

11:30 Speaker 2: counted fairly and equally, whether it is subscription based or

11:33 Speaker 2: ad supported, because every fan matters and every play should count.

11:37 Speaker 1: Unquote.

11:39 Speaker 2: YouTube was first included in the Billboard Hot one hundred

11:42 Speaker 2: in February of twenty thirteen. I didn't know that it

11:45 Speaker 2: was that recent. I mean, we're coming up on twenty

11:48 Speaker 2: twenty six, so thirteen years ago, I guess. But still

11:52 Speaker 2: I for some reason I thought it had been even

11:54 Speaker 2: sooner than that.

11:54 Speaker 1: But it wasn't so.

11:56 Speaker 2: And that was probably a big decision on Billboard's part

11:58 Speaker 2: when they when they decided to that. So YouTube was

12:02 Speaker 2: first included in the Billboard Hot one hundred and February

12:04 Speaker 2: of twenty thirteen, and was later added to the Billboard

12:07 Speaker 2: two hundred album chart in January of twenty twenty. Cohen said, quote,

12:13 Speaker 2: after a decade long partnership and extensive discussions, Billboard are

12:18 Speaker 2: unwilling to make meaningful changes. We are committed to achieving

12:22 Speaker 2: equitable representation across the charts and hopefully can work with

12:25 Speaker 2: Billboard to return to theirs unquote.

12:32 Speaker 1: The question.

12:35 Speaker 2: This is interesting. So the question of how to wait

12:39 Speaker 2: differences different types of streams has been contested since Billboard

12:43 Speaker 2: first introduced tiered streaming values in twenty eighteen. Prior to

12:49 Speaker 2: that change, all streams, whether from paid services like Apple

12:52 Speaker 2: Music or ad supported platforms like YouTube, were counted equally.

12:56 Speaker 2: So there was a time when when Billboard was just

13:00 Speaker 2: counting them all equally and not waiting one source of

13:05 Speaker 2: stream versus the other. In a twenty seventeen interview with

13:09 Speaker 2: Music Business Worldwide, Apple's Jimmy Iavine argued that having YouTube

13:14 Speaker 2: streams count equally alongside paid for music on Billboards Hot

13:18 Speaker 2: one hundred disadvantaged artists. Iavine was unequivocal about how his

13:27 Speaker 2: view about his view that paid streams should carry more

13:30 Speaker 2: weight on industry charts. He said, quote, I'll put it

13:35 Speaker 2: this way, people who pay for subscriptions should be advantaged.

13:38 Speaker 2: The labels owe it to their customers. The most important

13:42 Speaker 2: thing for labels is to make the paid services compelling

13:44 Speaker 2: and entertaining, and don't make free services as good as

13:48 Speaker 2: the paid services. Is that not obvious? Unquote, I don't

13:58 Speaker 2: necessarily disagree with his life. I understand the argument that

14:01 Speaker 2: he's making. I think we all can. I just but again,

14:04 Speaker 2: it's it just makes it. I mean, doesn't it make

14:08 Speaker 2: it more complicated? The more complicated you make it too,

14:11 Speaker 2: aren't there more chances for there to be errors? Calculating errors,

14:16 Speaker 2: math errors? Again I'm thinking of I know I'm approaching

14:19 Speaker 2: it with a bias of someone who the bias of

14:23 Speaker 2: someone who doesn't like math. But I'm just saying, I mean,

14:28 Speaker 2: I think it's I think when you try to weight

14:31 Speaker 2: different sources, it just makes it complicated, because then how

14:36 Speaker 2: do you figure out how much you should I mean,

14:39 Speaker 2: you know, obviously Billboard is trying to figure that out now,

14:41 Speaker 2: they're changing how much they weigh certain sources of streams.

14:46 Speaker 2: When the twenty eighteen changes were implemented, paid subscription streams

14:49 Speaker 2: were weighted more heavily than AD supported streams on both charts.

14:53 Speaker 2: On the Hot one hundred, paid streams were given full

14:56 Speaker 2: point value AD supported streams two thirds and programmed streams

15:01 Speaker 2: half On the Billboard two hundred, it took three times

15:05 Speaker 2: as many AD supported streams as paid streams to equal

15:09 Speaker 2: one album unit. Recent data shows that the US recorded

15:16 Speaker 2: music industries. Overall streaming revenue performance in twenty twenty four

15:19 Speaker 2: was dragged down by payouts from on demand ad supported

15:23 Speaker 2: music services, including YouTube and Spotify's Freemium tier. Combined, these

15:30 Speaker 2: platforms saw their revenue contribution to the recorded music industry

15:33 Speaker 2: decline in the last year, down one point eight percent

15:36 Speaker 2: year over year to.

15:38 Speaker 1: One point eight three billion.

15:39 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, on demand paid subscription platforms contributed eleven point six

15:44 Speaker 2: eight five billion dollars to recorded music right soldiers, up

15:50 Speaker 2: four point six percent year over year. The disparity and

15:52 Speaker 2: revenue per stream between paid and free tiers is at

15:55 Speaker 2: the heart of the debate.

15:58 Speaker 1: As Iving said.

16:01 Speaker 2: In twenty seventeen, quote, the fact is that free quote

16:05 Speaker 2: unquote in music streaming is so technically good and ubiquitous

16:10 Speaker 2: that it's stunning the growth of that. It's stunting the

16:13 Speaker 2: growth of paid streaming. Two things have to happen. Free

16:17 Speaker 2: has to become more difficult or restricted, and the paid

16:20 Speaker 2: services have to get better unquote. Well, free is never

16:23 Speaker 2: going to become more difficult or restricted. I mean, that's

16:26 Speaker 2: not going to happen. Ever, Cohen's announcement represents a reversal

16:30 Speaker 2: from twenty nineteen, when he welcomed YouTube's inclusion in the

16:34 Speaker 2: Billboard two hundred, calling it a quote very important moment

16:37 Speaker 2: and making the chart a more accurate representation of what

16:40 Speaker 2: people are listening to unquote. At that time, Cohen said,

16:43 Speaker 2: quote genres like Latin hip hop and electronic, which consistently

16:48 Speaker 2: dominate the YouTube charts, will now be properly recognized for

16:52 Speaker 2: their popularity. This is another great step in bringing YouTube

16:56 Speaker 2: and the industry together unquote. YouTube reports in October that

17:01 Speaker 2: it paid more than eight billion to the music industry

17:03 Speaker 2: during the twelve months from July twenty four to June

17:06 Speaker 2: twenty five, covering revenue from both advertising and subscriptions on

17:10 Speaker 2: the Google owned platform. In his statement December seventeenth, Cohen

17:14 Speaker 2: directed fans to YouTube's own charts as an alternative to

17:17 Speaker 2: Billboard's lists. He said, quote, if you're curious about what

17:21 Speaker 2: music is making waves on YouTube, you can visit our charts.

17:23 Speaker 1: Unquote. Well that's a good point, I guess. So there

17:28 Speaker 1: you have it.

17:30 Speaker 2: The other thing happening very very quickly with YouTube, and

17:35 Speaker 2: this is from Digitalmusicnews dot com. YouTube is reportedly terminating

17:39 Speaker 2: channels behind fake AI film trailers our AI music page takedowns. Next,

17:46 Speaker 2: this is short, but let's do this quickly before we

17:49 Speaker 2: go to break. YouTube has reportedly started terminating some of

17:52 Speaker 2: the channels be behind unauthorized artificial intelligence film trailers. Is

17:57 Speaker 2: a crackdown on AI music accounts coming, though it'll be

18:02 Speaker 2: up to the new year to deliver an answer, we

18:05 Speaker 2: can be sure of two related points at present. First,

18:09 Speaker 2: the video sharing giant has booted screen Culture and k

18:13 Speaker 2: H Studio, a pair of prominent fake trailer specialists, according

18:18 Speaker 2: to deadline from the platform all together, so both those

18:22 Speaker 2: channels have been booted per the same outlet. The terminations

18:26 Speaker 2: followed considerable pushback against the channels, and, while it probably

18:30 Speaker 2: doesn't need saying, said pushback was set in motion by

18:33 Speaker 2: the involved uploads reach and adjacent ability to confuse fans

18:37 Speaker 2: or at a minimum, distract from proper trailers. So, in

18:42 Speaker 2: other words, these channels were making their own custom trailers

18:45 Speaker 2: for movies. Screen Culture allegedly pumped out twenty three fake

18:50 Speaker 2: trailers for the Fantastic four First Steps, with a few

18:55 Speaker 2: outranking the actual trailer itself, boasting around seventeen million views

18:59 Speaker 2: in search results. Long story short, YouTube had reportedly slapped

19:04 Speaker 2: screen Culture and kh Studio with a monetization time out

19:09 Speaker 2: which ended when they started adding disclaimers like fan trailer

19:13 Speaker 2: and parody to their upload titles. But the channels, having

19:17 Speaker 2: reportedly generated a combined one billion or so of views,

19:21 Speaker 2: are said to have reverted to their old ways, an

19:23 Speaker 2: alleged move that then drove the takedowns. Second, we can

19:31 Speaker 2: also state with confidence that there's a massive amount of

19:34 Speaker 2: AI audio inundating DSPs and in the process stealing fans,

19:39 Speaker 2: playlist spots and royalties from real artists. Then we talk

19:42 Speaker 2: about that on the show all the time. The impact

19:45 Speaker 2: that AI is having, as most are aware, allegedly infringing

19:48 Speaker 2: machine made tracks as well as tracks that make too

19:52 Speaker 2: big a commercial splash typically face takedowns and or threats

19:55 Speaker 2: of legal action.

19:57 Speaker 1: In general.

19:57 Speaker 2: However, it's a different story for the advance avalanche of

20:00 Speaker 2: AI songs with comparatively modest stream and view counts. As

20:04 Speaker 2: demonstrated by hard data and Curse Rey DSB searches alike.

20:07 Speaker 2: These creations, while not yet outshining genuine music, are subtily

20:11 Speaker 2: expanding their presence on platforms such as YouTube and Spotify.

20:14 Speaker 1: Well, the thing is.

20:18 Speaker 2: As long as your as long as your channel doesn't

20:21 Speaker 2: get huge, you stay under the wire.

20:23 Speaker 1: If you under the radar would be a better way

20:25 Speaker 1: of putting it right.

20:26 Speaker 2: So, if your channel gets too big, you might get,

20:29 Speaker 2: for example, you might get copyright claims or I'm sorry,

20:33 Speaker 2: copyright strikes. Copyright claims are one thing, copyright strikes or another.

20:36 Speaker 2: You don't want copyright strikes. You can get copyright claims.

20:39 Speaker 2: I get copyright claims all the time. I put you know,

20:42 Speaker 2: this radio show streams on YouTube, and obviously we're playing

20:45 Speaker 2: copyrighted music. I can never monetize this, that's fine. I

20:49 Speaker 2: can never monetize the show on YouTube, that's fine. Couldn't

20:52 Speaker 2: do that anyway. It contains advertising. I don't care about that.

20:55 Speaker 2: I'm just streaming it to YouTube as it just gives

20:57 Speaker 2: people another way to enjoy the show. They don't they

21:00 Speaker 2: don't block my videos, they just won't ever let me

21:02 Speaker 2: monetize them.

21:03 Speaker 1: And again I'm fine with that.

21:05 Speaker 2: But if if I got big enough where you know,

21:11 Speaker 2: a label, I mean, I'm I'm a small time. But

21:15 Speaker 2: if I were like this huge, I mean, if I

21:17 Speaker 2: were big enough, I wouldn't I would just not stream

21:20 Speaker 2: the show on YouTube anymore because I would know because

21:22 Speaker 2: I would see what was coming. Right, if I were

21:24 Speaker 2: big enough that I got the attention of the labels,

21:27 Speaker 2: they you know, somebody might issue an actual copyright strike,

21:30 Speaker 2: and a copyright strike would put my channel in danger.

21:33 Speaker 2: So I wouldn't do that. You know, I'm at a

21:35 Speaker 2: level where I you know, I do it. It's fine,

21:37 Speaker 2: I get copyright claims, but that just means you can

21:40 Speaker 2: never monetize this video. Fine, I can't monetize any of them.

21:45 Speaker 2: It's fine.

21:46 Speaker 1: But but if you get.

21:49 Speaker 2: Big enough, YouTube notices or someone notices who will then

21:53 Speaker 2: complain to YouTube effectively, and then YouTube will begin to

21:57 Speaker 2: penalize you. You know, the first might be just demonetizing you.

22:01 Speaker 2: If you have a big channel. That's if you're monetized

22:04 Speaker 2: and you're making money, you know, you don't want to

22:07 Speaker 2: lose that. That's the first thing YouTube might do to

22:09 Speaker 2: you is demonetize your channel. Instead of just demonetizing specific videos,

22:13 Speaker 2: they might demonetize your entire channel, and then you've just

22:15 Speaker 2: lost a source of income. And then the next step

22:18 Speaker 2: might be they're going to take you down. There's a

22:20 Speaker 2: lot more to this. The article itself is short, but

22:23 Speaker 2: we're we're getting to that point. Where we got to

22:26 Speaker 2: hit a commercial break