Brant Hajek of Wooden Overcoat | Matt Connarton Unleashed

0:00 Speaker 1: Oh, that's a nice sound. That is called Home.

0:03 Speaker 2: The band is Wooden Overcoat, and that's from the debut EP, Hello Sunbeam. And Brant Hijack should be on the phone line with us.

0:13 Speaker 1: Brant, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. Welcome.

0:16 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

0:17 Speaker 1: Absolutely.

0:17 Speaker 2: No, it's wonderful to speak with you. I really, like I said, I love the sound of that. That is so cool, the track Home. Obviously, I listen to all four songs. It's a nice listen. Your debut, this is, of course, the debut EP, right, from Wooden Overcoat?

0:33 Speaker 1: This is your first release as a band?

0:35 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yes. I've been making music for longer than this, but this is kind of like the The first time I decided to make it a real thing, you know?

0:47 Speaker 1: Okay. Okay. And you are.

0:49 Speaker 3: Make a band and put a name on it. Yeah.

0:51 Speaker 1: Yeah. Outstanding. And you are in Portland, correct? Portland, Oregon?

0:56 Speaker 2: Yeah.

0:57 Speaker 3: Portland, Oregon.

0:57 Speaker 1: Very good. Oh, that's right. It's Oregon. I know I said Oregon.

1:01 Speaker 2: I've... I've had people tell me it's actually Oregon, but I can never quite get myself to say it that way. Um, so what was it that made you decide to finally, you know, because as you said, you've been making music for a long time. It sounds like, what was it that, uh, just made you decide to put wood and overcoat together and what, why this moment did you decide to do it?

1:21 Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, that's a, how do I, how do I answer that question? Um, I think part of it is just, um, kind of finally getting my stuff together to like actually know how to record on my own. Um, it's one thing to be able to make songs, but it's another thing entirely to be able to, um, like pick and choose and like hone the craft over time and figure out like, is this a thing that I could put together and make some sense out of? Um, so yeah, just kind of slowly amassing gear at home and just doing it in my basement for a while, I started to feel like I had something to do with it.

2:07 Speaker 3: I don't know. It just kind of made sense to record an album. And so that's what I was doing. Eventually, I just whittled it down to four songs. And I don't know. I just got a group together, and it kind of all fell into place.

2:24 Speaker 2: So in terms of the beginning of it, so it really started out as a solo project, is what it sounds like, and then was it after you were done recording that you decided to put a band together, or was that kind of always the goal from the beginning?

2:42 Speaker 3: I wanted to play with people. The goal was to eventually try to do it, but for this particular EP and project, it was like I did it all myself, the solo venture. And, um, my friend Brian, who actually is from Portsmouth, uh, he's long, long time musician. Um, he came over and just listened to some of it and was like, Oh, I played drums with you. Um, he used to play with the Dan Moss, um, with Doug Tuttle out there.

3:15 Speaker 1: Okay.

3:15 Speaker 3: I don't know if you're familiar with them, but, um, yeah, Brian's just like an ACE. He's, he's so talented. And, um, just yeah it was very encouraging and it's like yeah you should do this um so that's kind of what what happened was like it just naturally felt good and easy to do uh with you know some people i know and um now it's actually a band we're going to record a new ep.

3:41 Speaker 2: Together oh outstanding um when you do the new one, will the goal be to kind of do something that's similar? I mean, obviously, uh, you know, it's going to sound different, right? Because it's, it's all of you instead of one of you, but, um, are you going to kind of continue in the same vein as hello sunbeam or, or maybe see kind of where it goes with everyone's input?

4:05 Speaker 3: It's in the same vein for sure. Like the sonically, uh, it'll probably sound kind of similar.

4:12 Speaker 1: Okay.

4:13 Speaker 3: But the songwriting and like the way that we're generally approaching this sound is evolving, I think, in a good way.

4:21 Speaker 1: Okay.

4:22 Speaker 3: So the instrumentation and the way that we're kind of layering the guitars and stuff like that, I think, yeah, it's kind of taking a new shape.

4:33 Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.

4:35 Speaker 2: In terms of the EP and the songs on the EP, did you struggle at all with, when you're bringing people into the project and you're putting a band together, was it hard for you to kind of let go of, you know, because obviously it's going to sound a little bit different, even if the musicians that you bring in can replicate in different ways? pretty good detail what you've already recorded. Obviously, you know, inevitably it's going to sound a little bit different. Was it kind of hard to let go of that and say, hey, let's see how this sounds now with all of us?

5:09 Speaker 2: Or did that come to you kind of organically?

5:15 Speaker 3: I think it's okay for me to, like, it's easy for me to let people do what they want to do with the music. Yeah. As long as it sounds, you know, pretty close. I just want people to kind of feel like they're making it their own, you know? And I think what we did do, like say like when we play any of these songs live, um, I'm, I'm actually like really happy with the result instead of it being like frustrating that it doesn't sound exactly like the record. It's maybe something cooler to me when we play it live.

5:50 Speaker 1: Yeah.

5:51 Speaker 3: Um, so yeah, I don't know. It's, it's kind of a thing that I, I just feel grateful that people like are interested in doing it and want to be a part of it. So I kind of take it as it comes, you know, and, and work with, with the people where they're at. Sure.

6:08 Speaker 2: Um, the people who you brought into the band, are they all people that you'd known for a long time or did you, uh, was, was there anyone who was just completely new to you who maybe you just happened to meet online and, and, you know, and, and, and thought, you know, this person might work or, or, or were they all musicians that you'd.

6:24 Speaker 1: Known for a while?

6:27 Speaker 3: I've known Brian, uh, for like 13 years or something, you know, long time. Um, and then Dylan bass player also a long time. And then our guitar player, Mac, I I've met him through, uh, other friends. Mac plays in this band called Nick normal in, in town. And they're like a punk band. Um, and, uh, he's a friend. I don't know. I'm super, you know, haven't been friends for a really long time, but, it, definitely was, like, a comfortable arrangement where everybody's, you know, happy to hang out and we're all kind of on the same page.

7:07 Speaker 3: So, yeah, I don't think anybody is in the group that's, like, a total unknown quantity. But Mac is the newest to the friend group.

7:17 Speaker 1: Okay, okay. I read.

7:21 Speaker 2: I'm not sure where this quote comes from now, but I have this in my notes, uh, that you said, quote, recording this EP almost ruined my life. And I hope it sounds like it. Is that an accurate, uh, is that an accurate quote from you?

7:34 Speaker 3: Yeah.

7:36 Speaker 1: Expand, expand on that. If you would. I was a.

7:40 Speaker 3: Little, I can be obsessive about things.

7:43 Speaker 1: Yeah.

7:44 Speaker 3: And I was just getting really into it. And I was, I was going through some stuff in life with my, uh, my, my mother had cancer and, um, I think maybe I was putting a lot of energy into recording to kind of distract myself. Right. And I was, um, with my ex girlfriend and we, we were breaking up basically. Um, but I didn't know it yet. Um, but we, we'd been together for nine years. And so, um, recording this stuff just kind of was like this, um, it was an escape and just generally felt like it was like part of maybe some of the conflict that I was bringing upon the relationship, you know, it was just me doing what I had to do to cope, but also compounding some issues by, by like disappearing and doing this.

8:43 Speaker 1: Sure. Sure.

8:45 Speaker 3: If that makes sense.

8:46 Speaker 1: Oh, it does.

8:46 Speaker 2: It absolutely does. And, you know, I think a lot of artists can relate to that. You know, when you become sort of obsessed with something artistically and you use it, you know, you do use it to cope, of course. I mean, that's the best. I think that's the best kind of therapy, right? When you use whatever it is that you're going through, if you're going through something negative, but you create something, you create art with it, whether it's music or a painting or whatever it is. that then not only does it help you cope, but potentially other people, so other people who hear your music in this case, it might help them too.

9:22 Speaker 2: So it gives you an opportunity to not only help yourself, but to help other people indirectly, which I think makes it really the best kind of therapy any time that you can create. So it sounds like it may have almost ruined your life in a sense, but it also helped save you at the same time. Yeah.

9:40 Speaker 3: Yeah. I like that. That's part of my motivation to make anything. Remembering when I was 14 at a concert and just feeling so blown away by what these people were doing on stage and you know, listening to old records from bands I loved and how much it impacted me. And it doesn't have to be a 14 year old. It could be anybody, but I just, I love the idea that I could be creating something that could one day like impact somebody how I was, you know? And yeah, I guess in a way doing it while you're going through stuff, it is sort of this therapeutic exercise.

10:21 Speaker 3: Um, yeah, with, with this record, I, I mean, I obviously was kind of joking, but I kind of do think it sounds like that a little bit, like part of the, part of it is a little bit, um, sad and, and maybe there's some darkness in there.

10:36 Speaker 1: Yeah.

10:36 Speaker 3: And, uh, I don't know, I guess that line was like a funny little quip of the moment to like, to try to, say something that I think captures the essence of it.

10:50 Speaker 2: Right, right, absolutely. And then, so what about the title, Hello Sunbeam? Because it seems like it might be, because as you said, you know, there's a lot of sort of pain, you know, in these songs. I mean, so what, tell me the meaning of Hello Sunbeam, the EP title.

11:07 Speaker 3: Right. It just kind of came to me in a way that I don't really know why or where from. It just was the title one day. Um, I, I like to think about it as kind of a, like how people say that to someone when they're like, um, you know, if you greet somebody like, Hey sunbeam or hello sunbeam, like it's kind of, it could be in my mind, like almost sarcastic, like, you know, Hey there sunbeam, you know, kind of not feeling well or whatever. And, um, yeah, I guess that's the way I thought about it was, it was almost like, somebody saying that to somebody who's a downer.

11:50 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

11:57 Speaker 2: When you were recording this, so you, on the original EP recording, is that all you entirely? Do you play everything, every instrument?

12:08 Speaker 3: Yes.

12:09 Speaker 1: I've always been jealous of people who can do that. So what did you start with? When you were learning to play, what was your first instrument?

12:19 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. When I was about 11 years old, I started on drums.

12:23 Speaker 1: Okay.

12:24 Speaker 3: And I also was... learning how to play guitar around that time, but it was just, you know, really old acoustic guitar my grandma gave me. So, um, I was really more serious about drums and I, I did that in, in a more like serious capacity for a long time. I would play drums in people's bands. Um, so I was always kind of like doing both things, you know, trying to learn how to like write songs and, and make music. I eventually started to take lessons when I was like 16 or whatever to like understand, um, kind of like songwriting and stuff yeah um but yeah mostly it was drums and that was the thing i was serious about and still to this day we'll play drums with people in their bands.

13:07 Speaker 2: Okay okay very good um did any of these songs uh kind of surprise you at all in terms of how they came out when you were recording them like because obviously you know you have an idea for a song you have a an idea in your mind what it's supposed to sound like.

13:22 Speaker 1: But I'm curious.

13:23 Speaker 2: Because again, it's not like, it's not like you had any input. Well, or actually maybe you did. I don't know if you were getting feedback from other people, but because you were doing this yourself and not doing it in a band format, it's not like you had other people in your band to tell you, well, I think this song should sound like this. I think this song is finished, et cetera. I mean, were there any surprises? Did you surprise yourself at all while you were recording, uh, the EP?

13:48 Speaker 3: Hmm. I think, um, yeah, there, there were definitely things that happened during it where I don't know why. Um,

14:00 Speaker 3: I don't know how some things happened. They just kind of like appeared and it would be like a thing I came up with. Um, you know, in hindsight, if I pour over the tracks, I sometimes I'm like, man, that's a really weird thing I did there. And how did I come up with that? Um, so, um, Yeah, not having input was weird. I would try to show people occasionally, but it would never feel genuine. It's hard to gauge people's reactions when they're maybe just trying to be nice or something. Part of being in a band is also similarly hard.

14:40 Speaker 3: If you want to bring something to the table, it's kind of hard to read. Is anybody into this? And I think at the end of the day, I've learned that you just have to like really believe that it's like something worthwhile. I don't even know if it's good or bad. Like, I don't, I don't think it's possible to really know if something's good or bad, you know, in that way, like as art. But I think that you have to be extremely tuned into like, is this thing something of substance to you that feels like you're proud of it and that you like really love it?

15:17 Speaker 1: Yeah.

15:18 Speaker 2: You said, too, that you had narrowed it down to these, obviously you narrowed it down to these four songs.

15:23 Speaker 1: Out of how many?

15:24 Speaker 2: I don't think you put a number on how many songs you had to choose from. And the songs that didn't make it onto the EP, did any of those get fully recorded so that maybe they could come out? Of course, now you've got the band, but maybe they'll be released in the future.

15:40 Speaker 3: Yeah, I have nine songs from that time.

15:45 Speaker 1: Oh, okay.

15:47 Speaker 3: It could have been released as an album, but it was just, um, they are done there. They all got fully recorded. Um, and the problem was, how do I package this stuff into something that feels like cohesive? Cause, cause there were nine disparate sounding songs to me. Um, well, I think one or two of the ones that I recorded are going to maybe be repurposed for this new band lineup. Um, I don't think I'm going to release them as is, but there is one song I'm thinking of in particular that could be something that we play that I think I'm just going to re-record.

16:28 Speaker 1: Yeah.

16:30 Speaker 3: And the problem was, like I said, kind of packaging them in an order that sounds good and sequentially makes sense to me, but also the tone of the songs. These four just kind of felt like a unit together.

16:44 Speaker 1: Yeah.

16:46 Speaker 3: But also... if I were to record or release all nine, I started to realize like how, how big of a task that was. Once I started mixing them, I was like on a timeline, just like, let's get four done. And it was, um, you know, it was a heavy lift to, to do everything. So, um, yeah, it felt good. I was happy that I chose to just do a four song EP.

17:10 Speaker 1: Okay. Okay.

17:12 Speaker 2: Also, too, in the credits, it says you see the phrase only humans made this art, which I presume refers to. And this is a subject that comes up a lot on the show, AI and how AI is impacting music, how people create music and so forth. So I'm curious to get your thoughts on that, because that's I don't know if that's the first time I've seen that. a phrase quite like that explicitly included in the credits of something that may not be, I'm not sure, but, but obviously, um, you felt driven to include that.

17:46 Speaker 1: So I'm curious about that. Yeah.

17:50 Speaker 3: Um, I just want it to be very, very clear that I would never, uh, like generate anything using artificial intelligence to make something that I think is, um, I don't know. It's like a sacred thing and it should be raw and it should be maybe flawed. Like the, the output from me recording in my basement. Um, it, it might sound, you know, edited and processed and mixed and all that stuff. But like, um, at the end of the day, I want there to be signs of, of human life.

18:30 Speaker 1: Right.

18:30 Speaker 3: It should be, um, detectable. And, I don't know, I put it in the credits to just make it clear that if there is a time in the future, because there might be, where we no longer can tell that this definitely wasn't that. And it means something to me for many reasons. But that was, I guess, the first thought. It's just like, now that it's happening, this was earlier this year, and it was even a thing then. I just don't want there to be any confusion. Right. Right.

19:09 Speaker 1: No, I think that makes sense. That makes sense.

19:11 Speaker 2: I haven't asked you the obvious question yet. Where does the name come from, Wooden Overcoat?

19:17 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. I was reading a book, actually, and this author was talking about a wooden overcoat, which is like, I guess, maybe it's an Americana thing. Old writers would talk about a coffin.

19:34 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.

19:35 Speaker 3: Sometimes it was almost like slang, you know, like a euphemism for a coffin. Like old grandpa put on the old wooden overcoat.

19:44 Speaker 1: Oh, okay.

19:46 Speaker 3: And it just stuck with me because I thought it was so cool. and weird and then I looked it up and nobody had taken it probably because it's really weird but I don't know it just felt perfect for me I was like this is a cool band name I'm just going to use that and yeah it's still like similar to other things I've talked about. I just like, I want to, I want to feel like the thing has meaning and like it, um, it feels like a thing I could love, you know, instead of how do I package my band with a cool name?

20:23 Speaker 3: Like how do, how do I make people want to think we're cool? It's more like if I'm going to put a name on something, I just have to like love it. And it was this book I was reading was just like the author was just like talking about a wooden overcoat like a few times. And I was just falling in love with this phrase.

20:39 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I like it. Yeah, I think that's cool.

20:42 Speaker 2: And, you know, the good thing, too, about having an odd, kind of an odd name that you wouldn't necessarily expect is you're a lot less likely to run into a situation where you find out somebody else already has it or has already been using it for something.

20:56 Speaker 1: So, no, I definitely dig the name. Absolutely. Absolutely.

21:01 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's a big part of it. It's just, like, distinguishing yourself among so many other bands, like, Friends of mine actually from Philly, Mac was on tour with them. They're called Eraser. And they're great. but they have, there's like 10 bands called Eraser.

21:20 Speaker 1: Oh, of course.

21:21 Speaker 3: Yeah.

21:22 Speaker 2: As soon as you said Eraser, you probably heard me groan. I was like, oh yeah, I can, I can. Well, I'll, I'll tell you just a quick anecdote. Years and years ago, I ran into a friend of mine who's actually, I won't, I don't want to embarrass him, but he's been on the show too, um, uh, with a new band. But so, but way back then, uh, I ran into him after we had graduated high school. I ran into him and, uh, he's, he's a musician and he was telling me about this new band that he was in. And I said, Oh, what's the name of the band?

21:51 Speaker 2: And he says intuition. And I was too polite to say it, but in my mind I'm thinking, Oh my God, are you kidding me? How many bands are probably already using that name intuition? And then swear to God, I run into him again a few months later, like six months later. And, uh, I said, oh, how's the band? And he said, well, good, but we had to change our name. And I'm old enough that this is kind of not pre-internet, but pre-being able to just go online and Google who already has this name. But he goes, we got a cease and desist letter from somebody's lawyer who says we can't use that name because they're already using it for something.

22:33 Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh. Yeah.

22:36 Speaker 2: And in my mind, I'm thinking, geez, I shouldn't have been too polite to say it when I ran into him the first time. I should have just said it because I would have been right. But it's like, oh, come on, man. Intuition, really? But yeah, as soon as you said Eraser, I knew where that story was headed.

22:50 Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. I didn't want to run into anything like that. But more than anything, what I notice happens nowadays, nobody has lawyers. It's a lot of bands just like, independently making stuff but it's just that you'll get um mixed up with them in the different feeds of you know streaming platforms and stuff like when you try to look up that band or any of them like most bands that have a catchy name you'll see if you like find them on apple music or whatever it'll just be like three different bands all lumped into one.

23:28 Speaker 1: Name Yeah, it happens on Spotify, too.

23:30 Speaker 3: I'm thinking a little bit about that, thinking ahead of, like, how do I just, like, make sure that you can find me?

23:37 Speaker 1: No, that's very smart. Very, very smart, yeah. Absolutely.

23:41 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, some people have to learn that the hard way, but no, very, very smart, very forward-thinking. Brant, this has been wonderful. The time goes quickly. We'll start to wrap up, but I do want to... I do want to play one more song to close out this segment, but I'm going to let you pick it. What should we play from the Hello, Sun BBP to close out?

24:08 Speaker 3: Oh, that's a tough question.

24:11 Speaker 1: Put you on the spot.

24:14 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do, I don't know, I think maybe I Knew You Would is probably.

24:22 Speaker 1: I Knew You Would, okay.

24:24 Speaker 3: That's the right one.

24:25 Speaker 1: Okay, okay. Anything we should know about it before we play it? Yeah, I don't think so. Okay. Well, very good.

24:35 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on. This has been wonderful.

24:37 Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And, Brant, one other thing before we let you go.

24:41 Speaker 2: Where is the best place for people to go online to keep up with everything that you're doing, everything that Wooden Overcoat is up to, especially, too, because obviously you're going to be releasing more music in the future. So where should people go online to keep up with you?

24:56 Speaker 3: Usually I just post updates on Instagram, you know, for doing anything worthwhile, it'll be on there. And then I, um, you know, I think band camp, if you want to check out what we've done and, uh, be able to support us by giving us a few dollars, um, by the music on there. Um, and, um, I'm, I'm also trying to create a website just to like have as a central place for everything. Um, so that we don't have to use Instagram. But it's just woodenovercoat.com. So that's pretty much it.

25:32 Speaker 1: Outstanding. Brant, am I saying your last name? I'm just going to ask you, how do you say your last name?

25:39 Speaker 3: It's Hayek.

25:40 Speaker 1: Oh, I was way off. Hayek? It's okay.

25:44 Speaker 3: Most people pronounce it that way.

25:46 Speaker 1: Okay. Brandt Hayek. Okay. Well, very good. I'm glad I asked. All right. Well, excellent, Brandt. Thank you so much. We will definitely do this again in the future, of course, as you're releasing new music. We'd love to have you back on. Yeah, I'd love to. Absolutely. I really like Wooden Overcoat. And thank you so much for joining us today, and we'll talk to you again soon, I'm sure.

26:06 Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me, Matt.

26:07 Speaker 1: Thank you. You got it, Brandt. Thank you. Bye-bye.

26:11 Speaker 2: All right, that is Brant Hayek. Now I know how to say his last name from the band Wooden Overcoat. And we're going to give this a listen. This is another great song.

26:20 Speaker 1: Again, check out the whole EP. It's on Bandcamp. It's called Hello, Sunbeam.

26:24 Speaker 2: It's only four songs, so it's not a big time investment, but I think you'll be glad that you gave it a listen. But let's give this a spin. This is called I Knew You Would, and the band is Wooden Overcoat.