Matt Connarton Unleashed 10-24-26 hour 3

0:00 Speaker 1: We do have a little bit of time in the second hour at Numero Dos. I wanted to, a couple of music industry things. One of them involves, and we talked about on the show, what was it, maybe two months ago? There was a story in the music industry news about David Lee Roth canceling his current tour. And we speculated and talked about that. You know, what might be the reasons for that? You know, I had my theory, of course, I think it's because he frankly just can't sing anymore. But there's some other Van Halen related news that has emerged that's got people online chatting quite a bit.

0:35 Speaker 1: But there's an angle to this that no one else is mentioning that I want to point out. OK, little backstory just quickly. And I've been on a kind of a Van Halen kick recently, so I've been paying a little extra attention. Um, you know, I go through these phases because Van Halen has always been one of my favorite bands, but then I go years without listening to any Van Halen.

0:55 Speaker 2: And then I'm like, ah, time to listen to some Van Halen again.

0:59 Speaker 1: And I'm a big fan of, uh, you know, sometimes fans dismissively refer to it as Van Hagar, but I actually prefer the Sammy Hagar era, uh, to the David Lee Roth era. I'm like the only Van Halen fan on earth who says that out loud. It's like I'm the uncool kid in the room, but I don't care. They were every bit as successful, if not more so, by some metrics with Hagar as they were with Roth.

1:21 Speaker 2: So, you know, just saying.

1:24 Speaker 1: I love them both for different reasons. I love both Dave and Sammy. They're different flavors, but I prefer Hagar. He's got the pipes. Dude can sing. And I think 5150 is my favorite Van Halen album to this day. I love 5150. the first one with Hagar. Anyway, the reason they've been in the news recently is, well, I shouldn't even say recently because I feel like there's this controversy that just sort of goes on and on. But Alex Van Halen, not too long ago, I guess within the last year probably, right, his autobiography Brothers, which is really an autobiography of his story with his brother, Eddie Van Halen, who passed away a number of years ago.

2:07 Speaker 2: Has been... There's been some controversy.

2:10 Speaker 1: I haven't read the book yet, but there's been some controversy about it because.

2:16 Speaker 1: Not so much because of what he says in the book, but because of what he doesn't say. So the book focuses on, in terms of the band Van Halen, apparently, the book focuses entirely on the David Lee Roth era, and he completely snubs Sammy Hagar in the book, which is surprising to a lot of people and frustrating to a lot of people. But part of, Part of what I wanted to mention, because I feel like people are missing an important detail with this. The latest controversy is this. He said in an interview very recently, Alex Van Halen did, because obviously he's doing a lot of interviews.

2:58 Speaker 2: To promote his book.

3:00 Speaker 1: He said in an interview that they called Michael Anthony, the bass player for Van Halen, before Wolfgang Van Halen became the bass player, when they did the reunion tour with Roth. Michael Anthony was left out, and Eddie Van Halen's son, Wolfgang, who now has a very successful career as a solo artist, but Wolfgang became the new bass player. And this upset a lot of people, maybe not enough people, because the tour still did gangbusters numbers, but it wasn't a true reunion because Michael Anthony, the original bass player, was left out.

3:37 Speaker 1: And by the way, if you ever want to do a deep dive on this, and we don't have time to do it today, unless we circle back to it later in the show, if we have time.

3:47 Speaker 2: I don't think we will.

3:48 Speaker 1: But Michael Anthony's history in Van Halen is very, very interesting, but also disappointing in a lot of ways. When you learn about how the Van Halen brothers even conspired with David Lee Roth very early on to screw over Michael Anthony financially, and in terms of contracts and rights to the royalties and rights to merchandise money and all of it, right? They really screwed over Michael Anthony. And Michael Anthony took it, he put up with it, to stay in the band because apparently from his perspective, he thought better to stay in the band and deal with this terrible mistreatment than to be kicked out and then no longer be in Van Halen.

4:34 Speaker 3: But.

4:36 Speaker 2: And then Hagar.

4:38 Speaker 1: Obviously, Sammy Hagar and Michael Anthony are very close friends, and so Hagar did a lot to protect Michael Anthony financially. When Hagar joined Van Halen, he insisted that Michael Anthony's share in everything be reinstated, or he wouldn't join. So he played some hardball there in joining the band, because he was appalled at the way that the Van Halen brothers, along with David Lee Roth, had treated Michael Anthony. It's all rather troubling if you really dive into it and read.

5:07 Speaker 2: What's available about it.

5:08 Speaker 1: Noel Monk, in his book, he was the original manager of Van Halen during the David Lee Roth era. And Noel Monk, he has a great book, which I have read. It's called Running with the Devil. He talks about a lot of the mistreatment of Michael Anthony and how David Lee Roth and the Van Halens just screwed him over. And they screwed him over over the course of decades. I'm building to a point here. So when they did.

5:32 Speaker 1: Well, when they did the reunion tour with Sammy Hagar, which would have been in what? Oh six Oh five Oh six. Um, they, uh, Michael Anthony was, was essentially a, a hired gun at that point. He was a paid employee. The Van Halen said successfully pushed him out as a business partner entirely. And he was basically a hired gun at that point. Um, But then, by the time you get to the first official reunion tour with Roth, and you can find the press conference on YouTube, Michael Anthony is nowhere to be found, and instead it's Wolfgang Van Halen.

6:10 Speaker 1: And in a recent interview, so everyone always assumed, and I think this is still the case, Eddie Van Halen, First of all, didn't like Michael Anthony anymore and had a lot of negative things. There's kind of an infamous Howard Stern interview where Eddie Van Halen really goes in on Michael Anthony and trashes him along with Hagar because he was mad at both of them.

6:36 Speaker 5: So.

6:38 Speaker 1: So Eddie Van Halen wanted Michael Anthony out, but a big reason was he wanted his son, he wanted to play music with his son. And Wolfgang is an incredible musician, one of those guys who can play anything. So the thought has always been, That it's as simple as that. The Van Halen brothers have decided they hate Michael Anthony, even though, by the way, the only people ever to say a single negative word about Michael Anthony are the Van Halen brothers.

7:14 Speaker 2: You know, just like with Sammy Hagar.

7:16 Speaker 1: Whoever says anything bad about Sammy Hagar other than the Van Halen brothers and, of course, David Lee Roth. But anyway, just an observation. But everyone else talks about Michael Anthony like he's the greatest guy in the world. And he probably is. And if you've ever seen an interview with him, he comes across that way. He comes across as a really great dude and a very talented musician. Very talented bass player. Although I never liked those bass solos he would do. That would be the one thing I would nitpick.

7:43 Speaker 1: They're a little long, a little much. Anyway, Alex Van Halen in an interview said that They actually called Michael Anthony about the reunion tour with Roth. Because he addresses it, basically it comes up, and he says in this interview, everyone always assumes that Eddie just wanted to play with Wolfgang, so we pushed Michael Anthony out. But that's not true. We called Michael Anthony, but he never called us back. But we did try. We did call him. Now, here's the thing that everyone's missing about this.

8:19 Speaker 1: By the way, I'm going to play the audio. Actually, I'm going to play the audio first. This is a little snippet of audio from this interview on a podcast. It's from a YouTube channel called Upload Records. I'm just going to play this little clip, but then I want to point out something that I feel like everyone, everyone else is missing because everyone's mad.

8:35 Speaker 2: Well, here, let me just play this. Let's play this first.

8:37 Speaker 6: So, uh, everybody, nobody showed up. And then one day Ed and I were playing and there's this bakes comes in and it had a nice feel to it. And we let him behind the curtain.

8:47 Speaker 4: It was Wolf.

8:49 Speaker 6: So, and we did call just saying, just to put the record straight. We did call Mike cause we owed him that. And we did call him and he just didn't answer.

8:58 Speaker 4: So, so you tried.

9:00 Speaker 3: Yeah.

9:00 Speaker 6: He had the same manager.

9:01 Speaker 7: Come on.

9:02 Speaker 6: You know, and I'm not angry at him.

9:05 Speaker 2: You know, I love Mike, but you know, it was important for the band to, uh, he's back in the hall.

9:10 Speaker 4: He was my drinking buddy.

9:11 Speaker 6: You know, the, the Ed and Dave with a, all.

9:14 Speaker 2: Right, here's what I think. So, well, first, what, what are people mad about?

9:18 Speaker 1: People are mad because people are claiming that Alex Van Halen is lying and And that he's lying to make himself and Eddie look better. Like, no, no, no, everyone assumes that we pushed Michael Anthony out of the band because Eddie wanted to play with his son in the band. But that's not true. We actually called Michael Anthony. We called him because we owed him that. So everyone's mad because they're saying, well, Alex is just saying that to make himself look better and to make Eddie look better.

9:57 Speaker 1: Now, you can see how it might be possible that a call was made and that, you know, maybe there was just a breakdown in communication. You know, did they, I mean, did anyone literally call Michael Anthony? Did they, Alex says they had the same manager. Did they call the manager and say, call Michael? And then just somehow communication broke down. That's very possible. But the thing that I think everyone is missing about this is, this is what I want to point out. Alex never explicitly said, no one else has noticed this, apparently.

10:36 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm the only one who notices this. Alex never explicitly says in that clip that they called Michael Anthony about.

10:45 Speaker 2: The tour and.

10:47 Speaker 1: Because they wanted him on the tour. He never says that. It's almost his exact words. Let me back it up a little bit.

10:57 Speaker 6: I'm not angry at him.

10:58 Speaker 1: No, let me back it up a little more. Pay close attention to exactly what he says.

11:03 Speaker 6: Oh, wait, back it up a little more. Because we owed him that and we did call him and he just didn't.

11:10 Speaker 1: Because we owed him that. Because we owed him that. When I hear that, you know what I think? In other words, he's saying because we owed him a call because Michael Anthony has always said he found out with everyone else when he saw the press conference. The press conference announcing the reunion tour with David Lee Roth and it's Wolfgang on stage. I think what Alex Van Halen was saying is, I don't think he was saying we called him to offer him the spot on the tour because we wanted him on the tour.

11:45 Speaker 1: When he says he owed him that, that's a key phrase. We owed him that. In other words, I think what he's saying is we owed him a call to let him know what was happening because we weren't just going to not tell him.

11:58 Speaker 2: Because that's pretty bad. That happened to me once.

12:01 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously not on that scale, but there was a band I was in who decided to do a reunion. I was the original bass player and they just got a new bass player and didn't tell me. They apologized later. And I ended up back in that band later on anyway.

12:14 Speaker 2: It was the jinxed. And it was fine. It wasn't even a big deal.

12:19 Speaker 1: But they did kind of not bother to tell me. before publicly announcing the new bass player. That was kind of rude. But again, it was a long time ago, and who cares? But I think when he says we owed him that, because he says it very casually too, we owed him that. You know, I know I sound like I'm really nitpicking this, but if he had said more emphatically, we owed him that, Then I might think, okay, you owed him, you clearly believe you owed him something important if he said, we owed him that.

12:58 Speaker 1: Okay, then I might think, okay, so you owed him, so you're acknowledging that he was important to the band, so maybe you mean you owed him a chance to be in the band for the tour. But instead he just says it very dismissively, we called him, we owed him that. That sounds to me like he's saying, yeah, we owed him a call because, you know, he was in the band and, you know, we should just let him know, hey, dude, you're not going to be in the band on this tour. That's what I think everyone's missing.

13:23 Speaker 1: Everyone says, oh, Alex is lying. I think he's probably telling the truth. I think there probably was a call. And somehow communication just broke down and the message never got to Michael Anthony. But I think somebody probably did tell him to let him know, hey, there's going to be a press conference announcing a new tour. You're not included because you're not going to be on the tour. That's what I think he means when he just says, we owed him that.

13:46 Speaker 3: So.

13:48 Speaker 1: Doesn't make any of it okay, by the way. I do want to be clear about that. Even if my theory is right, doesn't make any of it okay. Michael Anthony should have been on that tour. He should have been still in the band. And the way they treated him is horrendous. Again, if you know anything about it, it's really bad.

14:04 Speaker 2: It's really bad.

14:06 Speaker 1: I remember a number of years ago, Eddie Van Halen during one of those periods where he was really on a tear about trashing Michael Anthony at every opportunity. He said that he claimed in an interview that he actually had to teach Michael Anthony how to play every single note of every song and that they would turn on a video camera so they could record the process so then Michael could study it to make sure that he really had the songs down, which completely contradicted everything else that had ever been said about that.

14:36 Speaker 1: And everyone knows it was BS. And then Sammy Hagar made a video, you know, really going at Eddie Van Halen for saying these things. But anyway, the Van Halen drama continues. It's almost worse than it's ever, well, I can't say it's worse than it's ever been, but. You know, because the band doesn't exist anymore, but effectively. But yeah, anyway, I just wanted to point that out and say, I think that there's something in what Alex Van Halen says that everyone is either missing or misinterpreting.

15:06 Speaker 1: We are rapidly approaching the top of the hour. We've got to get to a break. Show some love to our... amazing sponsors. And then when we come back in the third hour, for those of you listening live on Saturday, we've got, uh, Brent Hajek, uh, from the band wooden overcoat. And I can't wait to talk to him. Cause I really liked this project a lot. I believe he's on the West coast or he might be in Seattle. I'm not sure exactly where he is or Portland. I'm not sure, but, uh, but he is in another time zone.

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22:22 Speaker 3: Rip the knob off.

23:02 Speaker 14: You're a sundae, I'm the.

23:05 Speaker 4: Cherry Outside a.

23:29 Speaker 7: Mountain pool We are only things we don't need You are flowing water I'm too Oh, it looks so good.

24:06 Speaker 4: You're just a cloud, I'm the breeze. We are sunburned by a burning sun.

24:09 Speaker 7: We are falling.

24:11 Speaker 4: Leaves from a tree.

24:12 Speaker 14: You are growing flowers and seeds.

24:41 Speaker 4: It looks so good.

25:19 Speaker 14: It looks so good You're the sundae, I'm the cherry We are left outside a mountain.

25:30 Speaker 13: Pool We are only things we don't be.

25:54 Speaker 7: You're flowing water and you. Oh, it looks so good.

26:24 Speaker 2: Oh, that's a nice sound. That is called Home.

26:27 Speaker 1: The band is Wooden Overcoat, and that's from the debut EP, Hello Sunbeam. And Brant Hijack should be on the phone line with us.

26:37 Speaker 2: Brant, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. Welcome.

26:41 Speaker 15: Thanks for having me.

26:42 Speaker 2: Absolutely.

26:42 Speaker 1: No, it's wonderful to speak with you. I really, like I said, I love the sound of that. That is so cool, the track Home. Obviously, I listen to all four songs. It's a nice listen. Your debut, this is, of course, the debut EP, right, from Wooden Overcoat? This is your first release as a band?

27:00 Speaker 5: Yeah.

27:01 Speaker 7: Yes.

27:03 Speaker 15: I've been making music for longer than this, but this is kind of like the The first time I decided to make it a real thing, you know?

27:12 Speaker 2: Okay. Okay. And you are.

27:14 Speaker 15: Make a band and put a name on it.

27:16 Speaker 4: Yeah.

27:16 Speaker 5: Yeah.

27:17 Speaker 2: Outstanding. And you are in Portland, correct? Portland, Oregon?

27:21 Speaker 1: Yeah.

27:22 Speaker 15: Portland, Oregon.

27:22 Speaker 2: Very good. Oh, that's right. It's Oregon. I know I said Oregon.

27:26 Speaker 1: I've... I've had people tell me it's actually Oregon, but I can never quite get myself to say it that way. Um, so what was it that made you decide to finally, you know, because as you said, you've been making music for a long time. It sounds like, what was it that, uh, just made you decide to put wood and overcoat together and what, why this moment did you decide to do it?

27:46 Speaker 15: Yeah. Um, that's a, how do I, how do I answer that question? Um, I think part of it is just, um, kind of finally getting my stuff together to, like, actually know how to record on my own. It's one thing to be able to make songs, but it's another thing entirely to be able to, like, pick and choose and, like, hone the craft over time and figure out, like, is this a thing that I could put together and make some sense out of?

28:20 Speaker 6: So.

28:23 Speaker 15: Just kind of slowly amassing gear at home and just doing it in my basement for a while, I started to feel like I had something to do with it. I don't know. It just kind of made sense to record an album. And so that's what I was doing. Eventually, I just whittled it down to four songs. And I don't know. I just got a group together, and it kind of all fell into place.

28:49 Speaker 1: So in terms of the beginning of it, so it really started out as a solo project, is what it sounds like, and then was it after you were done recording that you decided to put a band together, or was that kind of always.

29:04 Speaker 2: The goal from the beginning?

29:07 Speaker 15: I wanted to play with people. The goal was to eventually try to do it, but for this particular EP and project, it was like I did it all myself, the solo venture. And, um, my friend Brian, who actually is from Portsmouth, uh, he's long, long time musician. Um, he came over and just listened to some of it and was like, Oh, I play drums with you he used to play with the Dan Moss with Doug Tuttle out there I don't know if you're familiar with them but yeah Brian's just like an ace he's so talented and just yeah was very encouraging and was like yeah you should do this so that's kind of what happened was like it just naturally felt good and easy to do, uh, with, you know, some people I know.

30:02 Speaker 15: And, um, now it's actually a band we're going to record and a new EP together.

30:07 Speaker 2: Oh, outstanding.

30:09 Speaker 1: Um, when you do the new one, will the goal be to kind of do something that's similar? I mean, obviously, uh, you know, it's going to sound different, right? Because it's, it's all of you instead of one of you, but, um, are you going to kind of continue in the same vein as hello sunbeam or, or maybe see kind of where it goes with everyone's input?

30:30 Speaker 15: It's in the same vein, for sure. Sonically, it'll probably sound kind of similar. But the songwriting and the way that we're generally approaching this sound is evolving, I think, in a good way. Some of the instrumentation and the way that we're kind of layering the guitars and stuff like that, I think, yeah, it's kind of taking a new shape.

30:58 Speaker 2: Okay, okay.

31:00 Speaker 1: In terms of the EP and the songs on the EP, did you struggle at all with, when you're bringing people into the project and you're putting a band together, was it hard for you to kind of let go of, you know, because obviously it's going to sound a little bit different, even if the musicians that you bring in can replicate? in pretty good detail what you've already recorded. Obviously, you know, inevitably it's going to sound a little bit different. Was it kind of hard to let go of that and say, hey, let's see how this sounds now with all of us?

31:33 Speaker 1: Or did that come to you kind of organically?

31:40 Speaker 15: I think it's okay for me to, like, it's easy for me to let people do what they want to do with the music.

31:46 Speaker 3: Yeah.

31:47 Speaker 15: As long as it sounds, you know, pretty close. I just want people to kind of feel like they're making it their own, you know? And I think what we did do, like say like when we play any of these songs live, um, I'm, I'm like actually like really happy with the result instead of it being like frustrating that it doesn't sound exactly like the record. It's maybe something cooler to me when we play it live.

32:15 Speaker 2: Yeah.

32:16 Speaker 15: Um, so yeah, I don't know. It's, it's kind of a thing that I, I just feel grateful that people like are interested in doing it and want to be a part of it. So I kind of take it as it comes, you know, and, and work with, with the people where they're at.

32:33 Speaker 5: Sure.

32:33 Speaker 1: Um, the people who you brought into the band, are they all people that you'd known for a long time or did you, uh, was, was there anyone who was just completely new to you who maybe you just happened to meet online and, and, you know, and, and, and thought, you know, this person might work or, or, or were they all musicians that you'd known.

32:50 Speaker 2: For a while?

32:52 Speaker 15: I've known Brian, uh, for like 13 years or something, you know, long time. Um, and then Dylan bass player also a long time. And then our guitar player, Mac, I I've met him through, uh, other friends. Mac plays in this band called Nick normal in, in town. And they're like a punk band. Um, and, uh, he's a friend. I don't know. I'm super, you know, haven't been friends for a really long time, but, it, definitely was like a comfortable arrangement where everybody's you know happy to hang out and we're all kind of on the same page so um yeah i don't think anybody is in the in the group that's like a total unknown quantity um but mac is the newest to the friend group.

33:42 Speaker 1: Okay okay um i read I'm not sure where this quote comes from now, but I have this in my notes, uh, that you said, quote, recording this EP almost ruined my life. And I hope it sounds like it. Is that an accurate, uh, is that an accurate quote from you? Yeah.

34:01 Speaker 2: Expand, expand on that if you would. I was a.

34:05 Speaker 15: Little, I can be obsessive about things and I was just getting really into it. And I was, I was going through some stuff in life with my, uh, my, my mother had cancer and, um, I think maybe I was putting a lot of energy into recording to kind of distract myself.

34:25 Speaker 5: Right.

34:26 Speaker 15: And I was, um, with my ex girlfriend and we, we were breaking up basically. Um, but I didn't know it yet. Um, but we, we'd been together for nine years. And so, um, recording this stuff just kind of was like this, um, it was an escape and just generally felt like it was like part of maybe some of the conflict that I was bringing upon the relationship, you know, it was just me doing what I had to do to cope, but also compounding some issues by, by like disappearing and doing this.

35:08 Speaker 5: Sure.

35:09 Speaker 14: Sure.

35:10 Speaker 15: If that makes sense.

35:11 Speaker 2: Oh, it does.

35:11 Speaker 1: It absolutely does. And, you know, I think a lot of artists can relate to that. You know, when you become sort of obsessed with something artistically and you use it, you know, you do use it to cope, of course. I mean, that's the best. I think that's the best kind of therapy, right? When you use whatever it is that.

35:29 Speaker 2: You're going through.

35:31 Speaker 1: If you're going through something negative, but you create something, you create art with it, whether it's music or a painting or whatever it is. that then not only does it help you cope, but potentially other people, you know, so other people who hear your music in this case, it might help them too. So it gives you an opportunity to not only help yourself, but to help other people indirectly, which I think makes it, you know, really the best kind of therapy any time that you can create. So it sounds like, you know, it may have almost ruined your life in a sense, but it also helped save you at the same time.

36:04 Speaker 15: Yeah.

36:05 Speaker 6: Yeah.

36:05 Speaker 15: No, I like that. That's part of my motivation to make anything, you know, like remembering when I was 14 at a concert and just feeling so blown away by what these people were doing on stage and, you know, listening to old records from bands I loved and how much it impacted me. And it doesn't have to be a 14-year-old. It could be anybody. But I just, I love the idea that I could be creating something that could one day like impact somebody how I was, you know? Um, and yeah, I guess in a way doing it while you're going through stuff, it is sort of this therapeutic exercise.

36:46 Speaker 15: Um, yeah, with, with this record, I, I mean, I obviously was kind of joking, but I kind of do think it sounds like that a little bit, like part of the, part of it is a little bit, um, sad and, and maybe there's some darkness in there.

37:01 Speaker 10: Yeah.

37:01 Speaker 15: And, uh, I don't know, I guess, that line was like a funny little quip of the moment to like, to try to say something that I think captures the essence of it.

37:15 Speaker 2: Right.

37:15 Speaker 15: Right.

37:16 Speaker 2: Absolutely. And then, so what about the title?

37:18 Speaker 1: Hello sunbeam? Because it, it seems like that it might be because as you said, you know, there's a lot of, uh, sort of pain, you know, in these songs. I mean, so what, what, tell me the meaning of hello sunbeam, the, uh, EP title.

37:32 Speaker 5: Right.

37:33 Speaker 15: Um, it just kind of came to me in a way that I don't really know why or where from. It just, it just was the title one day. Um, I, I like to think about it as kind of a, like how people say that to someone when they're like, um, you know, like if you greet somebody like, Hey, Sunbeam or hello, Sunbeam, like it's kind of, it could be in my mind, like almost sarcastic, like, you know, Oh, Hey there sunbeam, you know, kind of not feeling well or whatever. And, um, yeah, I guess that's the way I thought about it.

38:10 Speaker 15: It was, it was almost like, um, somebody saying that to somebody who's a downer.

38:15 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

38:19 Speaker 1: Um, when you were recording this, so you on the, uh, on the original EP recording, is that all you entirely?

38:29 Speaker 2: Do you play everything, every instrument?

38:32 Speaker 9: Yeah.

38:34 Speaker 2: I've always been jealous of people who can do that. So what did you start with? Like, what is when you were learning to play? Like, what was your first instrument?

38:44 Speaker 15: Oh, yeah. When I was about 11 years old, I started on drums.

38:48 Speaker 7: OK.

38:49 Speaker 15: And I also was. learning how to play guitar around that time, but it was just, you know, really old acoustic guitar my grandma gave me. So I was really more serious about drums. And I did that in a more like serious capacity for a long time. I would play drums in people's bands. So I was always kind of like doing both things, you know, trying to learn how to like write songs and make music. I eventually started to take lessons when I was like 16 or whatever to like understand music. kind of like songwriting and stuff.

39:23 Speaker 5: Yeah.

39:24 Speaker 15: Um, but yeah, mostly it was drums and that was the thing I was serious about and still to this day we'll play drums with people.

39:31 Speaker 1: In their bands okay okay very good um did any of these songs uh kind of surprise you at all in terms of how they came out when you were recording them like because obviously you know you have an idea for a song you have a an idea in your mind what it's supposed to sound like.

39:47 Speaker 2: But I'm curious.

39:48 Speaker 1: Because again, it's not like, it's not like you had any input. Well, or actually maybe you did. I don't know if you were getting feedback from other people, but because you were doing this yourself and not doing it in a band format, it's not like you had other people in your band to tell you, well, I think this song should sound like this.

40:04 Speaker 2: I think this song is finished, et cetera. I mean, were there any surprises? Did you surprise yourself at all while you were recording, uh, the EP?

40:13 Speaker 12: Hmm.

40:15 Speaker 15: I think, um, yeah, there, there were definitely things that happened during it where I don't know why. Um, I don't know how some things happened. They just kind of like appeared and it would be like a thing I came up with. Um, you know, in hindsight, if I pour over the tracks, I sometimes I'm like, man, that's a really weird thing I did there. And how did I come up with that? Um, so, um, Yeah, not having input was weird. I would try to show people occasionally, but it would never feel genuine. It's hard to gauge people's reactions when they're maybe just trying to be nice or something.

41:00 Speaker 15: Part of being in a band is also similarly hard. If you want to bring something to the table, it's kind of hard to read. Is anybody into this?

41:12 Speaker 3: Right.

41:12 Speaker 15: And I think at the end of the day, I've learned that you just have to like really believe that it's like something worthwhile. I don't even know if it's good or bad. Like, I don't I don't think it's possible to really know if something's good or bad, you know, in that way, like as art. But I think that you have to be extremely tuned into like, is this thing something of substance to you that feels like you're proud of it and that you like really love it?

41:42 Speaker 2: Yeah.

41:43 Speaker 1: You said, too, that you had narrowed it down to these, obviously you narrowed it down to these four songs. Out of how many? I don't think you put a number on how many songs you had to choose from. And the songs that didn't make it onto the EP, did any of those get fully recorded so that maybe they could come out? Of course, now you've got the band, but maybe they'll be released in the future.

42:05 Speaker 15: Yeah, I have nine songs from that time.

42:10 Speaker 5: Oh, okay.

42:12 Speaker 15: It could have been released as an album, but it was just, um, they are done there. They all got fully recorded. Um, and the problem was, how do I package this stuff into something that feels like cohesive? Cause, cause there were nine disparate sounding songs to me. Um, well, I think one or two of the ones that I recorded are going to maybe be repurposed for this new band lineup. Um, I don't think I'm going to release them as is, but there is one song I'm thinking of in particular that could be something that we play that I think I'm just going to re-record.

42:53 Speaker 2: Yeah.

42:55 Speaker 15: And the problem was, like I said, kind of packaging in an order that sounds good and sequentially makes sense to me, but also the tone of the songs. These four just kind of felt like a unit together.

43:09 Speaker 2: Yeah.

43:10 Speaker 15: But also... if I were to record or release all nine, I started to realize like how, how big of a task that was. Once I started mixing them, I was like on a timeline, just like, let's get four done. And it was, um, you know, it was a heavy lift to, to do everything. So, um, yeah, it felt good. Um, I was happy that I chose to just do a four song EP.

43:35 Speaker 2: Okay. Okay.

43:37 Speaker 1: Also, too, in the credits, it says you see the phrase only humans made this art, which I.

43:44 Speaker 2: Presume refers to.

43:46 Speaker 1: And this is a subject that comes up a lot on the show, AI and how AI is impacting music, how people create music and so forth. So I'm curious to get your thoughts on that, because that's I don't know if that's the first time I've seen that. a phrase quite like that explicitly included in the credits of something that may not be, I'm not sure, but, but obviously, um, you felt driven to include that.

44:11 Speaker 2: So I'm curious about that.

44:14 Speaker 13: Yeah.

44:15 Speaker 15: Um, I just want it to be very, very clear that I would never, uh, like generate anything using artificial intelligence to make something that I think is, um, I don't know. It's like a sacred thing and it should be raw and it should be maybe flawed. Like the, the output from me recording in my basement, um, it, it might sound, you know, edited and processed and mixed and all that stuff. But like, um, at the end of the day, I want there to be signs of, of human life.

44:55 Speaker 3: Right.

44:55 Speaker 15: It should be, um, detectable. And, I don't know, I put it in the credits to just make it clear that if there is a time in the future, because there might be, where we no longer can tell that this definitely wasn't that. And it means something to me for many reasons. But that was, I guess, the first thought. It's just like, now that it's happening, this was earlier this year, and it was even a thing then. I just don't want there to be any confusion. Right.

45:34 Speaker 2: Right.

45:34 Speaker 1: No, I think that makes sense. That makes sense. I haven't asked you the obvious question yet. Where does the name come from, Wooden Overcoat?

45:42 Speaker 15: Oh, yeah. I was reading a book, actually, and this author was talking about a wooden overcoat, which is like, I guess, maybe it's an Americana thing. Old writers would talk about a coffin.

45:59 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.

46:00 Speaker 15: Sometimes it was almost like slang, you know, like a euphemism for a coffin, like old, old grandpa put on the old wooden overcoat.

46:09 Speaker 2: Oh, okay.

46:11 Speaker 15: And, uh, it just stuck with me because I thought it was so cool and weird. And then I looked it up and nobody had taken it probably because it's really weird. Um, but I don't know. It just felt, felt perfect for me. I, I was like, this is a cool band name. I'm just going to use that. And, uh, um, yeah, it's still like similar to other things I've talked about. Just like, I want to, I want to feel like the thing has meaning and like, um, it feels like a thing I could love, you know, instead of how do I package my band with a cool name?

46:48 Speaker 15: Like how do, how do I make people want to think we're cool? It's more like, if I'm going to put a name on something, I just have to like.

46:54 Speaker 5: Love it.

46:55 Speaker 15: And it was this book I was reading with just like the author was just like talking about a wooden overcoat like a few times. And I was just falling in love with this phrase.

47:04 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I like it. Yeah. I think that's cool.

47:07 Speaker 1: And, and you know, the good thing too about having an odd kind of an odd name that you wouldn't necessarily expect is you're a lot less likely to run into a situation where you find out some somebody else already has it or has already been, been using it for something.

47:21 Speaker 2: So, uh, no, I, I definitely dig the name. Absolutely.

47:25 Speaker 5: Absolutely.

47:26 Speaker 3: Yeah.

47:26 Speaker 15: I mean, that's, that's a big part of it. It's just like distinguishing yourself among so many other bands, like friends of mine actually from Philly, um, Mac was on tour with them. They're called eraser and they're great. But there's like 10 bands called Eraser.

47:45 Speaker 2: Oh, of course. Yeah, as soon as you said Eraser, you probably heard me groan. I was like, oh, yeah.

47:52 Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you just a quick anecdote. Years and years ago, I ran into a friend of mine who's actually... I don't want to embarrass him, but he's been on the show, too, with a new band. But way back then... I ran into him after we had graduated high school. I ran into him, and he's a musician, and he was telling me about this new band that he was in. And I said, oh, what's the name of the band? And he says, Intuition. And I was too polite to say it, but in my mind, I'm thinking, oh, my God, are you kidding me?

48:24 Speaker 1: How many bands are probably already using that name, Intuition? And then, swear to God, I ran into him again a few months later, like six months later. And I said, oh, how's the band? And he said, well, good, but we had to change our name. We got a, and I'm old enough that this is kind of, not pre-internet, but pre-being able to just go online and Google who already has this name. But he goes, we got a cease and desist letter from somebody's lawyer who says we can't use that name because they're already using it for something.

48:58 Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh.

49:00 Speaker 9: Yeah.

49:01 Speaker 1: And in my mind, I'm thinking, geez, I shouldn't have been too polite to say it when I ran into him the first time.

49:06 Speaker 2: I should have just said it because I would have been right. But it's like, oh, come on, man. Intuition, really? But yeah, as soon as you said Eraser, I knew where that story was headed.

49:15 Speaker 15: Yeah, totally. I didn't want to run into anything like that.

49:18 Speaker 2: Yeah.

49:20 Speaker 15: More than anything, what I notice happens nowadays, nobody has lawyers. It's a lot of bands just independently making stuff, but it's just that you'll get mixed up with them in the different feeds of streaming platforms and stuff. like when you try to look up that band or any of them, like most bands that have a catchy name, you'll see if you like find them on Apple music or whatever, it'll just be like three different bands all lumped into one name.

49:54 Speaker 10: Yeah.

49:55 Speaker 15: It happens on Spotify too. A little bit about that. Thinking ahead of like, how do I just like make sure that you can find me?

50:02 Speaker 2: No, that's very smart. Very, very smart. Yeah.

50:05 Speaker 14: Yeah.

50:06 Speaker 2: Absolutely.

50:06 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, some people have to learn that the hard way. But no, very, very smart, very forward thinking. Brant, this has been wonderful. The time goes quickly. We'll start to wrap up. But I do want to play one more song to close out the segment. But I'm going to let you pick it. What should we play from the Hello, Sun BBP to close out?

50:33 Speaker 12: Oh.

50:34 Speaker 15: That's a tough question.

50:35 Speaker 2: Putting you on the spot.

50:39 Speaker 15: Yeah, let's do, I don't know, I think maybe I Knew You Would is probably.

50:47 Speaker 2: I Knew You Would, okay.

50:49 Speaker 15: That's the right one.

50:50 Speaker 2: Okay, okay. Anything we should know about it before we play it?

50:56 Speaker 15: Yeah, I don't think so.

50:57 Speaker 3: Okay.

50:59 Speaker 2: Well, very good.

51:00 Speaker 15: Thanks for having me on. This has been wonderful.

51:02 Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And, Brant, one other thing before we let you go. Where is the best place for people to go online to keep up with everything that you're doing, everything that Wooden Overcoat is up to, especially, too, you know, because obviously you're going to be releasing more music in the future. So where should people go online to keep up with you?

51:21 Speaker 15: Usually I just post updates on Instagram, you know, for doing anything worthwhile, it'll be on there. And then I, um, you know, I think band camp, if you want to check out what we've done and, uh, be able to support us by giving us a few dollars, um, by the music on there. Um, and, um, I'm, I'm also trying to create a website just to like have as a central place for everything, um, so that we don't have to use Instagram, but it's just woodenovercoat.com. So that's pretty much it.

51:57 Speaker 2: Outstanding.

51:58 Speaker 1: Brant, am I saying your last name? I'm just going to ask you, how do you say your last name?

52:04 Speaker 15: It's Hayek.

52:05 Speaker 2: Oh, I was way off. Hayek?

52:07 Speaker 15: It's okay. Most people pronounce it that way.

52:11 Speaker 2: Okay. Brandt Hayek. Okay. Well, very good. I'm glad I asked. All right. Well, excellent, Brandt. Thank you so much.

52:17 Speaker 1: We will definitely do this again in the future, of course, as you're releasing new music. We'd love to have you back on.

52:22 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd love to. Absolutely.

52:24 Speaker 1: I really like Wooden Overcoat. And thank you so much for joining us today, and we'll talk to you again soon.

52:29 Speaker 5: I'm sure.

52:31 Speaker 15: Yeah, thanks for having me, Matt. Thank you.

52:32 Speaker 2: You got it, Brandt. Thank you. Bye-bye.

52:36 Speaker 1: All right, that is Brant Hayek. Now I know how to say his last name from the band Wooden Overcoat. And we're going to give this a listen. This is another great song. Again, check out the whole EP.

52:46 Speaker 2: It's on Bandcamp. It's called Hello, Sunbeam.

52:49 Speaker 1: It's only four songs, so it's not a big time investment, but I think you'll be glad that you gave it a listen. But let's give this a spin. This is called I Knew You Would, and the band is Wooden Overcoat.

53:08 Speaker 7: Day by day a new one All in plain the new could All by myself in a black sea mountain made of wood Drapped in a haze that felt so good Caught in the mouth Pulling down to the bottom of the blood.

54:22 Speaker 14: Thank you.

54:23 Speaker 7: Thank you. Thank you.

56:13 Speaker 4: To the bottom of our lives.

56:54 Speaker 1: A question for my listeners. What would you change about your life if you knew that you could? Maybe you want to feel more confident, reduce stress, overcome a fear or a phobia, change an unwanted habit, or finally get past something that's been holding you back I'm Matt Connerton, radio host and certified hypnotherapist, and I help people use the power of hypnosis to create meaningful, positive change. I offer private sessions online and in person, and your initial consultation is completely free.

57:28 Speaker 1: Find out if hypnosis is right for you. Visit my website today, mattconnerton.com. That's mattconnerton.com.

57:36 Speaker 9: When Matzo wakes up in the morning, he gets into the shower, and to the top.

57:41 Speaker 12: Of his lungs, he sings, I'm.

57:48 Speaker 5: The man.

57:48 Speaker 10: I do what.

57:53 Speaker 2: I want because I can. All right, back to the radio show now. All the best, Jerry.

58:03 Speaker 8: Are you ready to make a change in your life? My name is Matt Connerton, and I'm a certified hypnotherapist. Hypnosis can help you change habits, overcome obstacles, and reach your goals. Sessions are available online or in person. at Birchwood Salon in Hooksett. And your initial consultation is always free. Visit mattconnerton.com. That's Matt, C-O-N-N-A-R-T-O-N.com to learn more or book your appointment. That's mattconnerton.com.

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