Matt Connarton Unleashed: Kevin Hammer

We're gonna bring in a we have a great guest on via Skype. We're

gonna bring in in just a moment. But if you'd like to enter the

discussion that we're about to have, six ZO three two five six z seven

is a studio line six ZO three two five six zoo seven. You can

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But the best thing to do so that we can hear and enjoy your Dulca

tones is to give us a call at six zoo three two five six zoo

seven. And we have Kevin Hammer via Skype. Kevin are you there?

Yes, I am hello, welcome to the show. Glad, glad to

be here. I just want to check and you hear me clearly? Yeah,

yeah, absolutely can hear me. Okay, a bit choppy, a

bit staticky, but I can make I can make everything out everywhere just saying

okay, good good. Yeah. Technology will will not always be exactly what

we wanted to be, that's for sure, absolutely, but uh yeah yesterday,

we had a band on all the way from Germany called Factory of Art

and uh, you know, when when you're getting transcontinental, it can be

especially a challenging and they were skyping in, but they had a little bit

of a problem connecting. You know. Eventually it worked, but I had

to had to give it a few shots. But where where are you?

Are you in Schenectady in New York? Yes, yep, I do reside

in Schenectady, New York. Okay, it's not that far from the capitol

Albany, New York. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have some I

have some family in New York State. Spend some time there as a kid,

because I haven't been there in a while, well at least not not

in terms of spending any real time there. But um my, uh,

my dad's second wife, her family is in I don't know, if you

know Frankfurt. It's uh kind of near uh, I guess it's kind of

near Utica. Um, yeah, I'm aware of the Frankfurt area absolutely.

Okay, Yeah, it's kind of funny in that area, you've got all

those you know, they don't even really call them towns, they call them

village villages like Frankfurt and Ilien and and it's hard to tell where one ends

and and and another one begins. It's they're kind of like a like one

city sort of match together. But it's really like a series of neighborhoods.

It's interesting. But um, it's funny. Yeah, it's it is funny

up here. I actually grew up in a community where the Amish had posts

to tie up their horses. So really, no kidding in New York or

were you yes? Oh wow? I was born and raised in Scaria,

Montgomery Counties in New York State. Uh. And it's funny because most people

when you say you're from New York, they go to the city. But

I grew up in small town, rural New York. Like I said that,

we had an Amish community. Uh, you know, Mennonites, you

know, we we had all that out there. And like I said,

our bank, our post you know, the post office, our grocery store,

they all had posts to um tie up their horses. In fact,

they put in a brand new a few years ago. They put in a

new sign in the center of town. Uh buggy parking, No kidding,

Oh yep, Oh that's cool. That's interesting, interesting, um you ever

see that that that show, Amish Mafia. I think it was actually set

in Pennsylvania. Did you ever see that? I think it was on the

Learning Channel. No, I'm aware that it exists, but no I have

I have actually never seen a full episode. I saw a trailer for it

once and I found it very amusing. It's a it's a trip. I

just I know someone actually someone who claims to be a real New Yorker from

from the city who uh will often brag about the time that he interviewed Lebanon

Levi from Amish Mafia, and it's kind of like, wow, that's uh

quite the brag there. But uh, yeah, that that that show.

I have seen the show. It's it's kind of a trip. But now,

what is your current satis in terms of are you a candidate or do

you currently hold office? Well, I I am currently a candidate. Um

I will I'm not going to speak so much to the uh you know,

the race right now. My campaign right now, we're the Democrats. I

am a Republican. The Democrats have their primaries, their primary coming up.

Uh you know, so we're just reaching out to the community right now,

still knocking on doors, getting getting our names out there. I ran in

twenty twenty one for city council and I'm running again, Okay in Schenectady.

Yep, in Schenectady. Gotcha. Now, have you held office before or

if you run, did you run for office prior to twenty twenty one.

No, twenty twenty one was my first time entering politics in that in that

fashion. Prior to that, I had been involved more on the activist side

since probably around college. Okay, And now you came to us by way

of our friend Billy Painter, or Bad Billy as he is as this his

online persona. Although I personally I don't know what you think, Kevin,

I think he should just use his real name. I think Billy Painter is

a cool name. I don't know why. I just like the way it

sounds. But uh, but yeah, he had he had recommended, and

I'm glad he connected us, and I did. I didn't get a chance

to see quite the whole thing, but I did watch most of um your

interview, Billy's interview with you, I should say, on Outlaw Radio and

very interesting and uh and you know we had talked via messenger and you had

mentioned, um, you know, you're a Republican, but you you know,

you like to be able to discuss things with people outside of the echo

chamber, and um, you know, one of the things that I try

to do with this show, and this is part of what it's part of

what made you interesting as a guest, and why I think Billy suggested you

come on is you know, I, um, and I'm an independent,

but I would probably best describe my politics. And when I go with this

particular description, people seem to agree with me. I'm center left, but

with a heavy dose of libertarian in some ways too. But I really like

talking to um, you know, I I don't personally enjoy having discussions that

are strictly you know, ideological, the sort of cable news to people yelling

at each other. You know, I like to dig deeper, and I

like talking to people whom uh you know. I mean, of course,

it's nice to talk to people with whom I agree. It's also nice to

talk to people with whom I disagree and and have a real discussion and an

exchange of ideas and and uh, my impression both from Billy and what you

had said on Messenger is that you're very open to that as well, and

that and that you like to address things outside the echo chamber. So um,

so, I think that's very cool, and I'm very interested in so

a couple of things about you that are that are interesting. Also in addition

to that that I wanted to ask you about. UM One is I would

like to hear your story about how Billy described you as a walk away from

the Democratic Party and you you alluded to it a moment ago as well,

um that you used to be a Democrat. And it's interesting you you said

something interesting in your conversation with Billy on his show. You were talking about

how you really kind of feel more like an independent. But you know the

way the system works in New York. You know, if you want to

vote, or I suppose if you want to be a candidate in your case,

because you're an active candidates. You know, you're an active candidate.

Independence generally don't win, so you know, you almost you almost have to

pick a side, um in that sense. But I do want to ask

you more about all of that, your your journey and and and how you've

changed politically or if you have changed. You know, sometimes people will say

regardless of which party they left, you know, I hear people say,

well, the party didn't you know, I didn't leave the party, the

party left me. But I'm curious to hear more about that. The other

thing that's that's interesting about you is, um, so you are, and

it's right on on the website there that I was looking at. You know,

you're you're openly gay and in a party that I think. I think

there's a perception and you might refute this today. I don't know, or

it might be a concern. I'm curious to hear you address this, But

there is a perception that the Republican Party today has kind of taken an anti

LGBTQ bent or. But then again, I also realize you're in New York

and the Republican Party of New York State is not the same as say no

disrespect to the South, but the Republican Party of Alabama. You know,

So maybe maybe maybe where you are, and I suspect this is the case,

but I'll be interested to hear you address this. Maybe where you are

it just doesn't matter. I mean, I know George Santos is an openly

gay Republican allegedly. Of course, you don't know whether you can believe anything

anything he says. But he is an openly gay Republican from New York,

and nobody seems to care that he's gay. So everyone's very interested in whether

he's actually telling the truth about anything, But nobody seems to care that he's

gay. So so, you know, in the Northeast, maybe it's just

not an issue. I don't know, but i'd be curious to get your

perspect active on that. But um, but yeah, any any of that

that you want to address. I know I threw a lot at you at

once, but you're I'm very curious to learn more about you. And um,

your conversation with Billy left me with a lot of questions. So as

you can tell, so we're we're oh no, absolutely, yeah, a

lot of a lot of ground at me. Yeah. Um, you know

where to start on the map. Um, no, well, it is

true. I was once I was registered Democrat, identified actually self identified as

a leftist at one point. You know, I was involved as an activist

more during the time when s JW was more commonly used social justice warrior back

back in those don't you don't really hear that anymore? Um. I had

a journey which um I mean, there was a lot involved in it,

and I came to embrace more my conservative values. Now. Part of that

journey, um, was indeed the fact, as you said, many people

say I didn't leave the party, the party left me. The Democratic Party

went further to the left. That's true. However, at around the same

time, I was also connecting to some more of my conservative root values that

had that had always been there. So it really it really was a mixture.

UM. I can't I can't say that, you know now, I

you know, identifying as a conservative and speaking to conservative values, I can't

say that they weren't there at all. Right, they were there even when

I was more on the left. It's just how my interactions went on the

left ultimately led to me embracing more of those conservative values, um, and

ultimately rejecting a lot of the ideology that I saw on the rise on the

left. Now, you it is, it is true that, um.

In regards I I like to say today that I prefer to discuss values,

not party. Yes, and that really has become more and more of my

focus. Not too long ago, I was having a discussion with two gentlemen

about issues locally and as when we got done with our conversation. You know,

I was expressing my opinion. I was talking about specific issues. And

when we got done with the conversation and the one guy left, the other

guy, who happens to be a Republican, a conservative like myself, he

goes, Wow, he goes, that was impressive, he goes. Usually,

when me and the other guy try to you know, me and my

other friend try to talk to him, you know, he's hard Democrat and

he will yell at us, get frustrated with us and all that. And

I go, I understand that, and I've had that experience as well.

But did you notice something in our conversation. Not once did I mention party

affiliation during this entire conversation. I just spoke about the issues in my personal

values, which ye, Well, that allowed us to have a better connection.

Yeah. Uh, that makes sense because you uh, when you had

that conversation with Billy on his show, you were talking about that there's a

moment, uh that I and I wanted to kind of mention this to you,

and and I liked what you had to say. There's a moment where

you gave him, you offered him some advice on you know, he's he's

Uh. He was talking about his daughter and a political sort of a political

conversation interaction that he had had with his daughter. And you said to Billy,

can I give you some advice and the advice that you gave him?

And I I won't, uh, I'm sure I won't get it out as

eloquently as you put it, because I really liked what you had to say.

But your suggestion was, you know, start with you know, don't

don't talk about political party with your daughter, talk about specific issues and uh

and and and just stick to that. Um and I. I really,

again, the way you said it was very very good. I can't remember

exactly how you put it, but it really resonated with me because, you

know, I feel like we live in a world where people are so hyper

focused on party identification and ideology that there's no room to even um express anything

outside of what's expected to you, for example, on social media if you

are on either left or right, you know, if you're if you're a

Republican and uh and and you say, well, you know, I'm a

Republican. But here's something that I do give President Biden credit for. I

think he's right on you know, maybe you know the way he's supplied weapons

to Ukraine or whatever, if that's something you happen to agree with them on.

If you if you give Biden credit for anything as a Republican, you'll

get dog piled. You'll get called a rhino. You know, you'll get

called, I don't know, a socialist whatever it is, right. Uh.

And and in the inverse, if you're a Democrat and you say,

well, you know, I don't like Trump, but I did agree with

him on the debt ceiling. That was something that he got right, Uh,

you'll get dogpiled by your your fellow Democrats and it's like, how can

you dare say anything good about Trump? And so uh it's and and that

just perpetuates you know, we we we live in a world where it's like

you've really you're expected to be locked in on one side or the other.

And so I think your approach is smart. Uh. You know, talk

about the you know, forget about the political identification. Uh, start with

the issues and and and go from there, because at the end of the

day, especially when you're talking about local things, UM, I think there's

a lot of room for agreement. You know, if you're talking about if

you're running for city council or something like that. I think there's probably a

lot more room for agreement and less room for ideology, uh than than there

isn't on a broader scale anyway. So I think the way you approach it

and the way you think about it, I think makes a lot of sense.

We've gotten We've gotten to a point where if you're talking about a politician,

whether they be Democrat, Republican, whatever they may be, and you

are on that opposite end of the political spectrum, at least that's your party

affiliation, and you do speak kindly to them in any way, you do

get that attack. Unfortunately, we are that polarized, although I would say

that we're polarized in regards to what the media highlights, in regards to what

the politicians highlight, but not so much when it comes to day today Americans,

every day americans who I feel actually can have more conversations, and I

know in fact we can because I've taken part in those conversations. It's more

on the social media where I get the conflict, but in person, I've

had in depth conversations with people on the opposite end of the political spectrum.

Sure, we did not agree, but we remain civil, absolutely, and

I think in part that's because we and I was I had a friend once

kind of put it this way. He was saying, you know, it's

it's kind of like we're at this point. You know, say there was

a historical a dictator, a monstrous dictator, right, and that dictator happened

to say, um, puppies are cute. Well, after that point,

no one could ever say puppies are cute because this dictator said it, right,

right, So no one, no one can say puppies are cute now.

Um, you know. So it's it's very interesting that we have gotten

into that, and it's it does exist on both sides of the aisle,

all across the political spectrum. Now, for me personally, it's interesting because

I look back to my roots and where I came from. One of the

things I actually feel very fortunate in regards to is that I did not have

very political parents. Um, my parents never discussed voting with me. To

be honest, some people may not look fondly upon that, um, you

know, for various reasons, but it's just not who my parents were.

And I remember once asking them about voting and both my parents had the same

view. Why bother they're all crooked anyways, as across the board, and

that's a common view actually. But for me, especially when I entered UM

College and I started looking at the world around me, I realized something that

was true, whether I liked it or not. Um. You know,

there's the saying that you don't have to believe in the devil. All that

matters is the devil believes in you. And that's true when it comes to

politics. You can say you don't care about politics. You can say that

you don't you don't care, you know, it doesn't impact your life,

but that's just not true. I had a conversation with a friend who lives

in a more rural area and he was telling me earlier, he had been

telling me in the week about he was putting in a duck pond and you

know, in a coupe for the ducks and all that stuff. And then

later on he was telling me how politics doesn't impact his life, you know,

so he just doesn't want anything to do with it. And I remembered

back to our earlier conversation and I asked him, bowing the answer probably,

I said, I have a question you think politics doesn't impact your life.

I got a question, did you check all the zoning laws and regulations when

you put in that pond and you put in that coup, because if you

did not follow them to the te those were passed. Those rules were passed

by government, by local government. So yes, it does. And politics

impacts us from the moment we are born and before we go we were born.

You know, if you're born in a hospital, there are regulations,

policies at the hospital has to follow that have been implemented by government. Government

does impact us from womb to tomb, and even after the tomb, to

be honest, because they can pick up, you know, semties. So

I mean politics does impact you, whether you like it or not. Someone

saying to that that realization. When I entered college, I got involved,

and at the time it was more on the left. I was. Actually

I was an activist. I was a co founder of one of the GFAs

at my college, at the first college I went to, and I really

did fall into more with the left, and for me, that did end

up eventually taking more of an extreme turn at one point to where I did

cut out family over politics. The one thing I never did. I never

told anyone they didn't have a right to speak. This is where I honestly

started to change for me is when I actually got that treatment in return,

and I'm actually thankful that I did. To be honest, I started to

question things on the left at the time. And like I said, I

don't say this to say that everyone who has left or leaning has these personality

traits or takes part in this behavior. Of course, I'm speaking to the

experience I had during my journey from the left to the right. And you

know, and I've met I've met people on the who are very big on

If you don't have this specific view, then you're cut off right, nothing

to do with you. But for me, I experienced it largely on the

left and still do to this day. Um what it happened was, I

think, as I always I always kind of say, I think, what

really, um, ultimately h was going to result in my conflict with the

left was that I'm very stubborn and I don't respond well to people trying to

put me in my place. I'm someone who always asked questions. I wasn't

the child who easily accepted when my parents told me something. I wasn't the

child to really accept because I said so. I was the child who would

ask why, yeah, And I view that as important. You tell a

child not to touch a burning stove, why not explain to them why they

shouldn't touch the hot stove because they could get hurt. Instead of just saying

because I said so, right, they're more likely to rebel against that and

actually touched the stove and get and get burnt. But if you explain to

them why, you're gonna probably have a different result. I mean, they

could still do it, you know, but but you're probably gonna at least

they're gonna have a better understanding. And I really had that personality from the

time I was very young. Trust me, it frustrated my mother at times,

but my mother let me. Let my mother understood where my logic was

was going. And ultimately, I think this personality trait is what eventually caused

me to conflict with the left as it moved further and further to the left.

Because when I entered the left, there was a lot of things that

were preached that I absolutely believed in and still do actually believe into this day.

It's just when I noticed a lot of double standards and hypocrisy on the

rise. That was when I started to conflict, because I started to ask

more questions. Yeah, and I do have a few examples of those that

I found, um where I was starting to like, For example, uh,

you know, there was this, uh we would say, all right,

you shouldn't judge someone by the color of their skin. Absolutely, absolutely,

you shouldn't. That's wrong. That's racist. To have a prejudice against

someone based on the color of their skin. That is racism. That is

the definition of racism. Right. It's wrong to judge someone's entire character based

on their sex. Absolutely absolutely agreed with that, and I still agree with

that deeply. It's wrong to judge someone hate someone based on their sexual orientation,

and you know, in regards homosexuality heterosexution, I still I still believe

that. However, I noticed that there became more and more among my friends

this double standard, meaning they believed that racism only went one way, sexism

only one way, hating someone based on sexual orientation only went went only went

one way, and that if you were the oppressed quote unquote demographic, you

had every right to treat other people however you wanted based on these characteristics because

you were the oppressed, and that just didn't sit right with me. I

think that it's just as wrong for me to attack a heterosexual man for being

heterosexual, to call him some kind of name a slur related to that,

as it would be for him to call me a slur in regards to my

sexual orientation. I saw that as just as wrong. But unfortunately on the

progressive left right now, they don't see that, as they see one is

wrong but not the other. Um, but where were these Were there expert

personal experiences that you had where this came up? Because I don't, I

don't. I mean, well, first of all, let me just say

so, I fundamentally agree with you. I mean, any anybody, uh,

you know, being prejudiced against anyone is as a form of prejudice.

Like I'm not a big fan of the term uh and you might agree I'm

not a big fan of the term reverse racism. I think, yeah,

yeah, um, But but I am I am curious. So uh,

I mean, were there personal experiences that you were having or did something happen

to you online where where you began to notice because I don't feel like I

I see, while I agree with you, Um, in principle, I

haven't. Granted, I don't really engage much online. Uh in politics,

I kind of save it all for the show. Um, but I I

so I agree with you in principle, but it's not something I've seen.

Like, I can't, off the top of my head think of a lot

of examples of straight people being attacked for for being straight. I'm not sure.

So I'm just can you clarify that a little bit. I'm just curious

where where you were running into that, and and and if you can walk

I guess through how you responded to that when you encountered it, and how

that drew you to to see hypocrisy and double standards and so forth. Well,

let me, I guess. Let me explain because I know the perspective

you're coming from. In my personal life. When I say I was an

activist, well I may not have, you know, been high up there

and gotten a lot of attention. I was very much involved in activism,

and I did end up with friends who went further and further to left,

like not just people on social media, people in my circle of friends who,

for example, over a political disagreement one friend I had, he did

try to get someone fired from their job. He t but he docks them

like I knew people who honestly were at that level of encouraging people to cut

off family even divorce their spouses over political disagreements. Like my circle of friends

was hard went hard left. So it's an It wasn't even social media,

which, don't get me wrong, I experienced that on social media, of

course. Yeah, I was part of a law of left leaning political groups

and chats and everything like that. But I had people in my life,

people I had known for years, who were also of this mentality and actually

took part in these actions. And like when I had the falling out with

my family member over politics, a lot of my friends encouraged me to cut

her out of my life and never talk to her again. And this was

someone who is my baby cousin. I'm about I'm all about four years older

than her, and I was there when she was born and we had a

falling out over politics. And at the time, I was much more extreme

and much more of you know that you gotta agree with me on this or

else I don't want to talk to you. And I was surrounded by people

who had that same mentality and encouraged that mentality in me. Now, I

still made the decision. I'm not. No one held a gun to my

head or anything. Not to say that someone want to do that these days,

it seems like some might, but no, I still made that decision.

So I still take responsibility for my actions there. I'm not going to

sit here and claim that I was completely helpless. They I was. I

was forced to, you know, by threat of my life or anything.

I ultimately was the one that made those decisions. But all so, that

was my circle of friends. Are just to clarify, because I actually marched

on Washington, DC. I protested outside my capital. I went to organizational

meetings, I helped organize protests, I spoke at protests. I was deeply

involved on in regards to the activity locally when it came to the left.

Yeah, yeah, I will. Actually, uh, I want to kind

of retract and rephrase something I said when you mentioned when you mentioned specifically people

trying to get people fired from their jobs or because of uh maybe not uh

you know, whatever it is, their their position or something. I have

seen examples of that. Actually, so I I was not. I'm realizing

now I'm because as you're talking. I'm thinking of specific things, you know

where UM. It kind of reminds me of the what what Candice Owens talked

about. Although in in I don't believe her story, I do believe your

story because I've seen examples of what you're talking about. I have, and

it's starting to come back to me. Candace. I don't. I don't.

I don't know how you feel about her. I don't believe her.

But that's a separate conversation. But I but I know what you're saying,

and it's it's, UM, yeah, if if somebody, um, you

know, somebody uh does something that that someone perceives as uh and and they

may be right in their perception that it's prejudiced or something, and then they

go and they try to get that person fired from their job. Uh that

type of thing. Uh. Yeah, I don't like to see that either.

I think I think people do go much too far with that or the

dock singe that goes on. And so I understand, uh, you're being

repelled by that. Um. I've never I've never been an activist in that

way, so I've not experienced that. But I've never been in that position

either. But I have seen that kind of thing happen, Kevin, So

I do get where you're coming from on that, and let me let me

just because you ask for specific examples. So, um, there were specific

examples, especially around twenty sixteen going into twenty seventeen, because obviously that's when

things really heated up. Yeah, and that was when you know, I

cut out a family member. But then I started to really question myself on

that. I I, over politics, was going to cut out someone that

I had known literally since the day she was born. Yeah, over over

politics. I had a falling out out with well, my in laws event

you know, eventually for a little bit. And you know, I don't

regret Some people might say they regret these falling out, these falling outs,

I don't because I stepped back and reflected on them, and and more I

became critical of myself. What could I have done differently? What could I

have said differently? Yeah, and some of them, some of the things

that happened personally where I actually became a target in my circle of friends,

UM started around that time. So I don't know if you recall, um,

when a group of four um young individuals who happened to be black kidnapped

a young UM man with mental health issues and tortured him and recorded it.

I you know, and we're and we're calling and we're using racial slurs and

you know, uh, you know, towards towards white's. During that,

I remember in my group of friends saying, oh, okay, here's an

act of racism. Just as we've called out acts of racism against other other

demographics, other racial demographics, here's an act of racism that we should call

out as well. Like I said, in my mind, racism is racism

and it's wrong and we should call out. But when I went to call

that out, people in my own circle of friends said, no, you

can't do that. That's not racism. Was that a violent act? Yes?

Was that prejudice yes? And I'm like prejudices in the definition of racism,

But you know, I started getting push pushed back with that. UM.

Another thing that that happened to me is I had made a lot of

posts critical of Christianity in regards to well the LGBT community. UM, and

I had you know, I had made a number of posting friends had my

friends in my closed circle, they had liked and shared them. Well,

I made a similar post, except this post, I was being critical of

Islam in regards to how it has, how that how that really is treated

homosexuals and other people from the community over over our span of years, and

I was told I couldn't, I should take down that post because my posts

against Christianity were fine, but my posts being critical of Islam were wrong because

in the context of America, we're talking about minority demographic so I'm punching down

and this just didn't make sense to me. I realized what came. The

biggest issue I had was inconsistency and logic. If you have a specific set

of values and you don't apply them equally across the board, I have to

question you. I have to question if you can and then you don't acknowledge

the double standards, the hypocrisy at play in your own mind. Don't get

me wrong. We all have our double standards, right, like when it

comes to policy, like there are things that yes, children shouldn't do,

but adults can. Right. That's that's one case where absolutely into me,

that's that's legitimate. I stand by that. But this was very different.

And more and more I started speaking on issues and getting told to be quiet

by those in my circle of friends, to the point where I was actually

removed from several UH messaging groups um that I had been part of on social

media where I actually knew the people in person. And then one individual was

amusing the one that tried to get a guy fired from his job. There

was a protest locally in front of in front of my police station. Actually,

and this I had already been started being very open about my criticisms of

the left, and I had starting I had started to embrace more of my

conservative values in part as a result of that, started reflecting more upon who

I really am, really soul searching. But during that time I hadn't heard

from him as much. Yea, I happened to go to that protest him

there, he kind of looked at me, then looked away, and someone

I had been at his house. I had celebrated with him, celebrated birthdays,

like really, we had hung out, and sure enough I went to

look him up on social media. Not only had he unfriended me on social

media, he had blocked me as well. Yeah, so this is what

started to happen. And I think one big thing issue for me was my

unwavering belief in free speech no matter what. Even my days when I was

the furthest to the left I had ever gotten. I still while I might

cut people out, I might have cut people out, I still didn't believe

that they should be silenced, right. I still believed that they had a

right to speak to their values, to what they believed, even if their

values hurt my feelings. I just wanted to associate with them if it hurt

my feelings. I believed that to my core and I still do so.

When a number of my friends started taking those acts of well, we're gonna

work to get people fired, We're gonna even you know docs, people release

their information, yeah, and even sometimes go after family members, all because

people were just speaking their values. That for me was like, I'm done.

I have to step away from this. And that was when my journey

really started to where I am today. Yeah. Yeah, M no,

I can. I can understand all of that, and now I'm curious the

other aspect that I'm really interested in it. So, um, is my

theory correct, Kevin, that you, as a as an openly gay man

in the Republican Party in the state of New York, probably not an issue,

or have you or have you run in any have you run in any

problems with that where where maybe some maybe somebody just uh gives you a hard

time. Well, I'm not someone who tries to um blind myself to reality

or tries to deny truth. Um. Of course, the Republican Party party

has not had a history that has been great with individuals who, like myself,

are gay. Right, Yeah, yeah, that's that's a fact.

Then again, it wasn't too long ago that you had Biden up there talking

about marriage being between a man and a woman. So but furthermore, I

want, I want to um, I put it this way now with people,

because people do say to me, um, how can you vote this

way? How can you have these values when the party that you're a part

of, um or you know, have had, has had this history when

it comes to the LGBT community, Well, I'm like, well, first

of all, there's a great deal in the LGBT community that I stand firmly

against what I see, especially in the current lgbt Q all the way to

zum a community that I just I absolutely am adamantly against. So first of

all, there's that, And second of all, even if let's say the

Republican party today put out a platform that all homosexuals should be put to death.

Right, even if that were to happen today, my values on freedom

of speech, the first Amendment would be the same, The Second Amendment would

be the same, Abortion would be the same, Border issues would be the

same. I would still have these values. So would I vote for a

politician that wanted me put to death? No, But I would vote for

a politician that supported, that fought for the values that I preach. And

yes, they happen to be conservative and Republican. And that's just the fact.

So when people try to bring up the history, I'm like, well,

that's also the point. It's history, right, yea, because we

can spend all day going down history, going down that road as to who

did what and who did when? I mean, do you want to go

back to segregation? Do you want to go back to Democratic Party? I

mean, how far do you want to take this? Well? Yeah,

yeah, no, I understand that. But what I'm curious though, Kevin,

is like, do you get any pushback, you know, you're a

candidate for office as a Republican, do you get any pushback in your own

party in New York? Because because if if you look at the Republican Party's

history with say, for example, marriage equality. Um you know, obviously

there are Republicans. Well I'll just give you just a quick example. So

here in New Hampshire, we were actually ahead of the curve on marriage equality

because um and uh Jenny was was serving in the in the House, uh,

in the legislature here uh in New Hampshire at the time. But um

so uh there there were a large contingent of Republicans in New Hampshire who voted

in favor of marriage equality and then voted against repealing it when some Republicans tried

to repeal it in the next term. So so we were ahead of the

curve. But part of what contributed to that was was, you know,

some Republicans who said, no, we we we, you know, let's

let's go ahead and let's go ahead and do this. Uh. Not not

all of them, of course, plenty of them opposed it as well,

but um and there there are certainly Republicans who who bristle at the idea of

undoing that. For example, um so, um so, there are a

lot of Republicans who are pro marriage equality. But I'm just wondering, I

mean, do you do you run into any any fellow Republicans or Republicans you've

campaigned with, for example, who who have any issue. Again, I

wouldn't think that it would be a problem in in New York, not to

you know, bring Northeastern elitism into it. But you know we can We're

both Northeasterners. We can do that. Um. Whereas you know, if

you were if you were running for city council in Alabama or Mississippi or Oklahoma,

you know, as a Republican, you you might very well, uh,

you know, you might run into some trouble. But I'm wondering have

you had any of that here or has it? Has that part been pretty

smooth because to your credit, you don't try to hide it. Um.

You know again the website I was looking at, you know, you could

try to slide one by and refer to your partner on that website, but

you don't. You refer to him as your husband. If you had said

partner and captain ambiguous you might foolsome people, but you're not trying to fool

anybody, which I really respect you for. Um. Because of the position

that you're in, no one could blame you if you did try to sneak

one by you know what I mean? So and so, so it's it's

so it's interesting. I guess, first of all, it's a matter of

my approach, right, Yeah, um is to me. To me,

there's nothing special in that I that I do reference my husband in my description.

I've seen plenty of profiles where you know, a male candidate will say

my wife in regards to explaining why he's running for office, my wife,

my family. I'm running because I want my family to have to live in

a safety for a community. And that's the thing is first of all,

I want to stress I am not a gay candidate. I am not a

gay Republican. I am a Republican candidate who happens to be gay, who

happens to be a homosexual. So gay is not the priority of my identity.

Yeah, It's not something I put any work into. It's something I

just am. So that's also the idea of taking pride in that. To

me, one of the things is taking pride in an identity that you didn't

work for. That's where you get into narcissism and you get into more entitlements.

So for me, when I when I go to speak to a Republican

on the street or not. You know, I knock on their door.

I don't introduce myself as HI, I'm Kevin the homosexual. I introduced myself

as HI. My name is Kevin Hammer. I'm running for city council.

These are the issues that I'm focusing on, and that's where the conversation is.

Have I had Have I interacted with any pushback? Yeah, I've interact

But to me, it's no different. So so I have out with Republicans,

uh I had. I do have an example of one Republican who couldn't

get past the fact that I happened to be a homosexual man. Um But

at the same time, I have people on the left who can't get past

the fact that I'm a homosexual who's a Republican. So I witnessed it on

both sides. Now, when request some marriage equality specifically, um I was

involved as an activist during that time. I actually marched on Washington, DC

for the Equality March in two thousand and nine. Um So, yeah,

yes, it was two thousand and nine. I believe, um So,

I was involved, you know, in that. But to be honest,

my view even on that to a degree has changed. In regards to what

I why I personally was was fighting for was is I wanted legal protections.

I wanted to be able to have to live my life with a man that

I fell in love with and not have to worry about my family or anyone

else coming in during certain times, say I was injured in the hospital,

I didn't want to worry about my family coming in and laying claim to me.

I didn't want to worry about if I were to pass away my spouse,

you know, being able to inherit what I leave him in my will.

I didn't want to worry about that. Now, a lot of people

say, well, you could still follow those you know, the legal processes

and leave. The problem is is that there was a history of it when

we didn't have those legal protections that even if someone said okay, I'm going

to sign off that this person makes all medical decisions for me if I'm incapacitated,

or that my items go to this families would often come in and there

was a history of this and challenge it on the basis of morality and even

say well, we feel that our relative was brainwashed into this lifestyle and therefore

we want, you know, we want custody. We want a right to

him to make the decisions about his health, or we want to write to

his estate. And if a judge, if a judge's morality was in line

with that family. Quite often it didn't matter if there was a will,

it didn't matter, you know, if anything was on paper, the judge

would go with that. So for me, it wasn't about even the word

marriage. I just wanted security in the fact that there were legal protections for

me and the man that I love. Yeah, that's a big that's a

big part of why um civil unions and my view that wasn't enough. You

know, that was sort of the compromise when we when when civil unions came

in, and it was like, well but but as you know, some

of the examples that you gave are reasons why even civil unions didn't quite hold

up. And that's that's one of the reasons why it was. It was

so important in my view. You know, like I said, I've always

been pro marriage equality. But Kevin, we are. You've been very generous

with your time. We're already it's about ten minutes of five, so we'll

we'll let you go. I know, you got to get to get to

dinner and so forth, but not to put you on the spot, but

I would like to do this again soon because I've really enjoyed the conversation and

I feel like we barely scratched the surface, and uh, you know,

you're an interesting guy. So I do hope we can do this again soon.

But before we let you go, please, is there anything that we

should know for anyone who might be listening online in your area, where where

they should go to learn more about your campaign or social media or anything you

want to make sure our listeners know about, or anything that you're that you

might be involved in online politically or otherwise that people should know about. Well,

I mean forum in regards to my campaign where you can learn more about

me and also my other amazing candidates were running alongside me. I really do

have some great people surrounding me. You on Facebook, you can go to

your GOP candidates for Schenectady City Council. It is actually the same on Twitter.

Um there you can find links to our website and just just learn more

about us. But ultimately, I guess what I want to leave people with

is just to really work on avoiding the echo chambers that we have today in

our in our society, regardless of whether they are on the right or the

left. Echo chambers, I truly believe are one of the greatest dangers in

our society today. We Once you get trapped in them, you get this

mentality to actually hate the other side. Yes, And the scary thing about

that is once you convince yourself to hate someone, to hate a group of

people, history shows us that eventually you can justify doing the most horrific things

to those individuals. So get out of your echo chambers. If you're in

it, think about your Think about your life for a moment. Say do

I have a friend, not an acquaintance. Do I have a friend or

someone that I can have deeper conversations with who's of a different perspective on this

issue or that issue, or a different political affiliation. And do we have

these conversations. If not, work on changing that, work on making connections,

because, like I said, it's it's the politicians, it's the media,

it's the hardcore activists that are creating this view that we are so divided

that we can't stand each other. But on the streets, I feel that

we very much still can have conversations. Oh yeah, and people treat each

other differently in person than they do on social media anyway. Absolutely. Yeah.

So by the way, I would love to come back on I'm very

much enjoying this conversation in your right over all the topics in general, we've

just barely scratched the surface. Yeah, because I've definitely had an interesting journey,

uh from from left to right and my walk away experience as well.

Yeah, yeah, definitely, Well we will we'll set something up, Jenny,

Jenny will uh connect with you on that and uh and and we'll make

it happen because I've enjoyed this very much. All right, Kevin Hammer,

thank you again so much for joining us today, and uh we will talk

soon. Let's have a good day, all right you two, bye bye,

all right, very good. That was Kevin Hammer, a Republican from

Schenectady, New York. He is on the ballot for uh all right,

well I don't know if there's a ballot yet, but he's running for city

council uh there in Schenectady, and uh yeah, and I you know,

I really like what he had to say about, you know, getting out

of the echo chambers, because that's and that's part of the reason why I

wanted to talk with him today is because that's something that we talk about a

lot on this show, you know, and I really believe that, uh

you know. In fact, we were talking just the other day about algorithms,

you know, and how on social media, whether it be YouTube or

Facebook or whatever it is, you're you're actively served up content that matches what

you've already looked at, what you've already absorbed. So you're constantly being fed

information that reinforces what you already think. And that's good in one sense,

right from a customer service standpoint, because you want to you want to be

suggested, so to speak, products or services or content that you are going

to be interested in. So you know, it's no different than on social

media in terms of content. It's no different from when say you're shopping on

Amazon. You want to be presented with products that somehow align with things that

you've previously purchased or things that you've previously looked at. So that all makes

sense. So the algorithms aren't necessary evil, but the evil part in the

necessary evil is that, yeah, it does reinforce these echo chambers that we

all get trapped in and that we're vulnerable too, and if you can have

constructive intellectual discussions outside of that and outside of being you know, trapped in

an ideology. And you know, Kevin put it very well when he said,

what happens is that gets reinforced to the point where people who disagree with

each other begin to hate each other. And that's the worst part, and

a lot of terrible things become justified because of that hatred. So yeah,

so there you go. But like I said, I feel like we barely

scratched the surface with Kevin, so we will do that again soon