Matt Connarton Unleashed: Tom Modern

0:00 Speaker 1: That's like the worst phone connection ever. Tom, are you

0:02 Speaker 1: there younger? Okay, for some reason, there's like this, uh

0:07 Speaker 1: strange sound in the background, but I think we can

0:09 Speaker 1: live with it. Well, at least we can hear each other.

0:13 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what that would be, but yeah.

0:17 Speaker 1: I don't know. Do you hear that? Do you hear

0:18 Speaker 1: like a buzzing in the background, Well.

0:20 Speaker 2: That could be just the airflow, but that's down in

0:24 Speaker 2: the basement. I mean, I'm surprised it's traveling that far.

0:27 Speaker 2: I'm on the first first floor.

0:31 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all right, though, we can hear you. You're

0:33 Speaker 1: you're nice and you're coming through nice and clear. So

0:36 Speaker 1: uh so that's that's what matters.

0:38 Speaker 2: Shut it off. I can shut it off if you

0:40 Speaker 2: give me a second.

0:41 Speaker 1: Okay, well, okay, no problem if you are just joining us.

0:46 Speaker 1: Tom Modern is calling in because the skype thing did

0:49 Speaker 1: not work out. But uh, actually I really like that

0:53 Speaker 1: song Toxic Man. What Tom does, if you are listening,

0:57 Speaker 1: is unconventional. He's very unique. His music is a unique.

1:00 Speaker 1: So I'm quite curious to speak with him. But he's

1:04 Speaker 1: going to go and try to shut off whatever is

1:06 Speaker 1: causing that sounds like angry bees.

1:12 Speaker 2: Okay, this should be better, all right.

1:15 Speaker 1: Tom, Hey, so, how do you describe your music? I'm

1:20 Speaker 1: really curious let's start there, because what you're doing, and

1:23 Speaker 1: obviously I'm not the only one to say this to you,

1:25 Speaker 1: what you're doing is very unique. I cannot think of

1:27 Speaker 1: anyone who I mean, there might be some influences there

1:30 Speaker 1: that we can talk about, but I haven't heard anyone

1:33 Speaker 1: who sounds quite like you. So I'm really curious. How

1:35 Speaker 1: do you describe your music to someone who's never heard it.

1:42 Speaker 2: I would say it's a galectic. Its influenced by a

1:46 Speaker 2: lot of different artists, and it's you know, it's organic

1:53 Speaker 2: in the sense that I like to play a lot

1:56 Speaker 2: of different instruments. But I would probably it's been tough

2:05 Speaker 2: to categorize, but I would at times I would call

2:08 Speaker 2: it art pop or post wave, yeah, or prog pop,

2:20 Speaker 2: some prog influences there. It's difficult though. They don't have

2:24 Speaker 2: the right categories for artists these days that they really

2:28 Speaker 2: need a few more.

2:31 Speaker 1: You mentioned you play multiple instruments. Do you play everything

2:35 Speaker 1: on these tracks? Is that all you.

2:39 Speaker 2: On some of the tracks? Yes, I've played everything, but

2:45 Speaker 2: there were four or five guest musicians on the on

2:49 Speaker 2: the album, I try to use as many people as

2:53 Speaker 2: I can. It's just you know, it's sometimes it's tough

2:56 Speaker 2: getting people and because I uh, I grew up playing

3:03 Speaker 2: guitar and but I always had a piano and a

3:10 Speaker 2: drum machine in my house, so it was sort of

3:14 Speaker 2: natural too. Uh, just uh learn those instruments a little

3:21 Speaker 2: bit as well.

3:23 Speaker 1: Sure, sure, yeah, so it's coming handy, yeah yeah. Uh.

3:29 Speaker 1: The album is called Now, this is one of those words.

3:33 Speaker 1: I don't know if I can say it correctly on

3:35 Speaker 1: the first tryout. I will try performical. Am I saying

3:38 Speaker 1: that correctly?

3:40 Speaker 2: Yeah? That's correct, yeah, performical?

3:42 Speaker 1: Yeah, performical. Is that a real word or is that

3:45 Speaker 1: your word?

3:48 Speaker 2: It's a made up word? Just I don't know. It

3:51 Speaker 2: came to me one day and it was that said,

3:53 Speaker 2: you know that that's the album, that's the title performical. Well,

4:00 Speaker 2: I think it comes go ahead.

4:03 Speaker 1: No, no, I was just going to ask you what

4:04 Speaker 1: does it mean? I mean, obviously it's a made up word,

4:05 Speaker 1: but what does it mean to you?

4:10 Speaker 2: I think it came from, uh, sort of an aberration

4:16 Speaker 2: from my performing. I performed in New York for many

4:24 Speaker 2: years and I tended tended to be somewhat theatrical, and

4:33 Speaker 2: I would use props and costumes to help interpret the music.

4:39 Speaker 2: And uh, and that just you know, just I don't know,

4:49 Speaker 2: somehow joined into the word uh you know, well I

4:54 Speaker 2: don't want word that would be end with c L

4:57 Speaker 2: maybe but al festival or you know, so just naturally

5:05 Speaker 2: sort of adapted to Perfromicle.

5:08 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you've got this is obviously a full

5:13 Speaker 1: length album. What went into the decision to release us

5:16 Speaker 1: as a full length And I asked that because and

5:17 Speaker 1: this is kind of one of those questions I ask anybody,

5:19 Speaker 1: because I'm always curious. We live in a time, as

5:22 Speaker 1: you know, where there are so many different ways that

5:25 Speaker 1: you can release music, different strategies. Some artists only release singles,

5:29 Speaker 1: some release EPs, Some will release a series of singles

5:33 Speaker 1: that eventually become an album. But was it important to

5:36 Speaker 1: you to release Perfromical as an album? Is there is

5:39 Speaker 1: there some sort of a cohesive theme running throughout these

5:43 Speaker 1: songs or is it just or did it just seem

5:46 Speaker 1: natural to do it this way?

5:49 Speaker 2: No, there was really no cohesive theme. I mean, all

5:52 Speaker 2: the songs are very different if you look at from

5:54 Speaker 2: the outside. Yeah, but it became clear to me to

5:58 Speaker 2: be taken serious as a serious artist, you really have

6:03 Speaker 2: to release an album. I mean I was just releasing

6:07 Speaker 2: singles for a while and that just wasn't cutting it.

6:10 Speaker 2: And I looked around at all the other artists who

6:13 Speaker 2: are working, and they're not doing that, They're releasing albums.

6:18 Speaker 2: So I was like, yeah, that's what I have to do.

6:21 Speaker 2: And so I pulled back and all the other stuff

6:24 Speaker 2: and just sank my energy into well. This release and

6:32 Speaker 2: you know, hoping for the best, released in September of

6:35 Speaker 2: this year, and I actually tried releasing it once before,

6:42 Speaker 2: but I wasn't happy with some of the recordings, and

6:44 Speaker 2: so I re recorded some of the tracks because I

6:47 Speaker 2: was just learning digital recording years ago. Yeah, so along

6:52 Speaker 2: with a lot of other people, and so that's the

6:55 Speaker 2: way I did it, yeah up till now.

6:58 Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you where do you record? Do you record

7:02 Speaker 1: at home? I mean it sounds like it's it's very

7:04 Speaker 1: it sounds like this is very di I wy do

7:06 Speaker 1: you do all of that yourself?

7:10 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely. Part of it was recorded in New York.

7:16 Speaker 2: Part of it was recorded it's uh Samdpiper Studios here

7:19 Speaker 2: in Cleveland and part of it was recorded in Los

7:25 Speaker 2: Angeles because a couple of the musicians were out there,

7:29 Speaker 2: so they were turning in remote pieces. Uh geez. I

7:35 Speaker 2: think it started though, I was recording in a storage

7:39 Speaker 2: unit in New York, New York City. Yeah, it wasn't

7:45 Speaker 2: It wasn't ideal, but it's part of it was a

7:50 Speaker 2: part of it got done there.

7:51 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so now you're so are you

7:55 Speaker 1: from New York originally?

7:58 Speaker 2: No, from Cleveland originally, but I born and raised, but

8:02 Speaker 2: I lived in New York about it was about twenty

8:07 Speaker 2: eight years.

8:08 Speaker 1: Oh okay, No, that's a long time in terms of

8:13 Speaker 1: the music scene. And because again, you're doing something that's unusual.

8:18 Speaker 1: Like I said, I can't think of anyone who sounds

8:19 Speaker 1: quite like you. What was it like to do what

8:24 Speaker 1: you do in New York? I assume that that if

8:27 Speaker 1: there's anywhere in the country where you can do pretty

8:30 Speaker 1: much just about anything you can think of musically, and

8:33 Speaker 1: you're going to find some sort of an audience, right,

8:35 Speaker 1: people are going to be interested. I would think that

8:37 Speaker 1: New York City would be kind of the best place

8:39 Speaker 1: to do something that is unusual and still be accepted

8:43 Speaker 1: and have people want to participate in it and be

8:45 Speaker 1: interested in it. Is my instinct correct about that. And

8:49 Speaker 1: that's not to suggest that you don't have that in Cleveland,

8:51 Speaker 1: but I assume in New York that's where you really

8:55 Speaker 1: have that the most. Where you can you can create

8:57 Speaker 1: whatever you want to and there's going to be some

9:00 Speaker 1: sort of audience for it. Am I am I correcting that.

9:04 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, that's that's true. For the most part. You

9:08 Speaker 2: can do anything in New York and somebody will relate

9:11 Speaker 2: to it. Yeah, but it's tough though as well. I mean,

9:18 Speaker 2: a lot of the clubs in New York that you play,

9:25 Speaker 2: it's you know, it's the lot of them ask you

9:29 Speaker 2: how many people you bring in? You know, that kind

9:31 Speaker 2: of thing, and it's just like, well, I'm just trying

9:33 Speaker 2: to do this thing, man, I mean I'm not I'm

9:36 Speaker 2: too busy. I'm not responsible for getting people through the door.

9:40 Speaker 2: And a lot of the clubs really have to start

9:42 Speaker 2: getting people in the old fashioned way, you know, when

9:46 Speaker 2: people went to clubs and bars and stuff and uh,

9:50 Speaker 2: you know, whoever was playing was playing. You know, now

9:53 Speaker 2: they want you to be the marketer too, and it's

9:56 Speaker 2: just like, well, you know, wow, too many things do

10:00 Speaker 2: you know. So yeah, it can be tough too, but

10:04 Speaker 2: you can do whatever you want to New York and

10:08 Speaker 2: let's see how it goes, you know.

10:10 Speaker 1: Basically, yeah, do you still perform live? Do you perform

10:13 Speaker 1: live in Cleveland?

10:17 Speaker 2: My last show was last November. Actually, now I haven't

10:23 Speaker 2: really been performing here. It's probably even tougher here because

10:28 Speaker 2: Cleveland's it's mostly cover cover bands and tribute bands and

10:36 Speaker 2: and band and if you're original, there's less places and

10:41 Speaker 2: they really want bands here. Right now, I'm more of

10:44 Speaker 2: a solo artist or perform as a duo, maybe with

10:49 Speaker 2: a percussionist or something. So it's been tough here. So

10:53 Speaker 2: I really started focusing on the recording. That's what I'm

10:58 Speaker 2: doing now. I'm really late focused on the recording because

11:01 Speaker 2: when you at a certain point, if an artist hast

11:05 Speaker 2: you know, two, three, four albums in his head, I mean,

11:09 Speaker 2: you know, he's really got to buckle down and get

11:11 Speaker 2: to work. You know, he's you know this, this performing

11:15 Speaker 2: is great for the ego, but I mean, what what

11:19 Speaker 2: what corporeal thing do you have to hold on to you?

11:22 Speaker 2: It's really the recordings, you know.

11:24 Speaker 1: Right right? Has your sound changed over the years? I

11:27 Speaker 1: assume it has I assume it's changed and evolved.

11:32 Speaker 2: Oh, definitely. A few years ago I founded a prog

11:37 Speaker 2: band in New York City called Arcta, and uh we were,

11:42 Speaker 2: you know, just hard hardcore prague, you know, yeah, performing,

11:48 Speaker 2: and uh so I decided to come out of the

11:54 Speaker 2: dry ice and the flog a little bit and warm

11:58 Speaker 2: up a little bit, and then I got I got

12:01 Speaker 2: to worry and now more like you know, the the

12:04 Speaker 2: SiZ pop, the prog pop, the art pop, uh, whatever

12:10 Speaker 2: you want to call it. Maybe a little bit avant

12:12 Speaker 2: guardev an avant garde, a clue, you know, whatever you

12:15 Speaker 2: want to call it.

12:16 Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's that there's a term too that people

12:19 Speaker 1: use a lot, experimental indie, which is almost kind of

12:22 Speaker 1: a catch all for anything that's for anything that's unusual

12:26 Speaker 1: that you wouldn't hear on commercial radio. But you don't

12:28 Speaker 1: you don't really know what to call it. But but yeah,

12:32 Speaker 1: I mean it's always hard to label these things, which

12:34 Speaker 1: I think is a good thing when you're when you're

12:35 Speaker 1: doing something that is hard to label because it's, like

12:38 Speaker 1: I said, it's something that uh that is unique. Has

12:41 Speaker 1: it Has that always been important to you to do

12:44 Speaker 1: something that's unusual or have you ever played in in

12:48 Speaker 1: just kind of a standard rock band or has it

12:50 Speaker 1: always been your, uh, your goal to do something that's

12:55 Speaker 1: that's outside of the mainstream consciously.

13:01 Speaker 2: No, I think it maybe comes from, you know, listening

13:07 Speaker 2: to all those bands and having an influence, being influenced

13:11 Speaker 2: by all those bands, but not really listening to a

13:19 Speaker 2: lot of music. I mean, when you're busy with your

13:22 Speaker 2: own music all day. Yeah, by five o'clock, you don't

13:26 Speaker 2: want to hear anymore music when it hurts to hear music, yeah, realistically, Yeah,

13:33 Speaker 2: And so I think just naturally morphs into your own

13:39 Speaker 2: sound that way, rather than you know, well I'm gonna

13:46 Speaker 2: I mean, of course, just some times it's like I

13:48 Speaker 2: want to do something different here, and you know, sometimes

13:52 Speaker 2: it works, sometimes it doesn't. But I think it just

13:56 Speaker 2: naturally evolves, you know, that's the best way. Anyway.

14:02 Speaker 1: You mentioned too when you were in New York, so

14:04 Speaker 1: you would use a lot of props during your show.

14:09 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Like if you look at the the the

14:13 Speaker 2: cover of the album Performical, there's three series of pictures there.

14:19 Speaker 2: I'm actually removing a space helmet that I used to

14:25 Speaker 2: come out in a space helmet and I would stand

14:28 Speaker 2: there and then slowly move my arms in the position

14:34 Speaker 2: and slowly remove the helmet and just stand there for

14:37 Speaker 2: a minute. And you know, that was just one of

14:42 Speaker 2: the props the Society's game, I think you played before.

14:45 Speaker 2: I'd come out in just a little thing, a little

14:49 Speaker 2: accent to you know, help interpret the song. I would

14:52 Speaker 2: come out in a captain's hat, you know. Sometimes it

14:56 Speaker 2: wasn't I don't really like full to get into full costume,

15:01 Speaker 2: you know, changes, I think it's a bit much. But

15:04 Speaker 2: you can use little things and sometimes you can throw on,

15:07 Speaker 2: you know, a little half a costume, you know, to

15:11 Speaker 2: help help interpret the piece.

15:15 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm looking at the I'm looking at the

15:17 Speaker 1: cover right now actually for Perfromical, so I can see

15:20 Speaker 1: what you're talking about with removing the helmet. And yeah,

15:24 Speaker 1: that's cool personally, I love that kind of thing. I love,

15:27 Speaker 1: uh seeing theatrics and and uh oh yeah. Yeah. Are

15:31 Speaker 1: there any videos on YouTube of you performing live?

15:38 Speaker 2: There? There's a couple few. They're a little bit scattered,

15:43 Speaker 2: but yeah, there's a couple of things out there. I

15:46 Speaker 2: think there's one from the the old Metropolitan Room. Yeah,

15:52 Speaker 2: it's more of a cabaret jazz place, So I think

15:55 Speaker 2: I was one of the few rock artists that was

15:57 Speaker 2: allowed to play there. Oh no kidding, Yeah, and there

16:06 Speaker 2: was a couple other they're scattered though the videos though.

16:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh okay, I'll have to look for those. I'm

16:11 Speaker 1: actually very curious to see you play live. Would you

16:16 Speaker 1: have you mentioned working with other musicians on recording when

16:21 Speaker 1: you when you would play live in New York, for example,

16:23 Speaker 1: did you have other musicians join you there or because

16:26 Speaker 1: I would imagine this, there's probably some a bit of

16:28 Speaker 1: a barrier there, right, because it's not like like a

16:31 Speaker 1: singer songwriter who's just getting on stage with a guitar.

16:34 Speaker 1: There's a lot of flexibility there to have other musicians

16:36 Speaker 1: join him or her and it you know, you can

16:39 Speaker 1: make it work. But I would imagine for what you do,

16:42 Speaker 1: that's that's probably a lot more challenging. Or maybe not.

16:49 Speaker 2: It can be challenging because getting people's difficult and people's

16:55 Speaker 2: availabilities are different, so they might not be a lot

17:00 Speaker 2: of chances for rehearsal time. But I would try to

17:04 Speaker 2: use musicians whenever I could. I go out with a

17:08 Speaker 2: bass player, I go out with a drummer. A couple

17:13 Speaker 2: of times went out with a drummer and a guitar player.

17:19 Speaker 2: You know, just depends, you know. You know, people say, well,

17:23 Speaker 2: you know, put a band together and be in a band.

17:26 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I don't know. Sometimes people realize

17:29 Speaker 2: how hard it is to have five people together and

17:34 Speaker 2: throwing their hat into the ring, you know, being all

17:40 Speaker 2: in and going to show up somewhere and here and there,

17:43 Speaker 2: and you know it's not gonna last very long with

17:47 Speaker 2: people's you know, needs and availabilities and what they have

17:53 Speaker 2: to be responsible for and committed to, you know, paying

17:56 Speaker 2: the rent and all that. You know, very difficult.

18:00 Speaker 1: It is challenging, I know from my own experience playing

18:02 Speaker 1: in bands, and we had I wish I could remember

18:04 Speaker 1: who said it. We had a guest on the show

18:06 Speaker 1: once who said, being in a band, if you're in

18:09 Speaker 1: a five piece band, it's like being in a relationship

18:12 Speaker 1: with four other people at once who are all in

18:15 Speaker 1: a relationship with four other people at the same time,

18:19 Speaker 1: and it's it can be very very challenging. And there

18:21 Speaker 1: is a certain freedom that I've never experienced myself. I

18:25 Speaker 1: only ever played in bands. I never did a solo thing.

18:27 Speaker 1: But there is a certain freedom that comes with sort

18:30 Speaker 1: of being the captain of your own ship where you

18:32 Speaker 1: don't have to depend on anybody else. You know, you

18:35 Speaker 1: can do it all yourself. And and uh so that's

18:39 Speaker 1: you know, that must be nice and and so I

18:41 Speaker 1: I understand, I understand why you feel that way about

18:44 Speaker 1: you know, the challenges of playing in a band, and

18:46 Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's not necessarily worth it. But again

18:49 Speaker 1: also too, what you're doing is is so unusual and unique?

18:54 Speaker 1: What is that by the way, that's that tracks Society's

18:56 Speaker 1: game that we opened with, Is there is there a meaning?

18:59 Speaker 1: Is there a specific message with the lyrics to that.

19:06 Speaker 2: A meaning? Well, it didn't, Bob Dylan say once I

19:12 Speaker 2: just wrote it. I don't know what it's about. I

19:18 Speaker 2: guess it's just about society. I mean, I think the

19:22 Speaker 2: late the late two thousands, I was going to a

19:25 Speaker 2: lot of society parties in New York City and yeah,

19:30 Speaker 2: and then when the economies we had the different economy crashes,

19:33 Speaker 2: the real estate and then the stock the tech bubble crash,

19:37 Speaker 2: and then that all kind of died out. So it

19:39 Speaker 2: was kind of thinking about it, like hmm, you know

19:42 Speaker 2: that was that was interesting. It was an interesting time

19:45 Speaker 2: in the city. It's probably all come back now now.

19:49 Speaker 2: But now I was thinking, you know, me, you know,

19:52 Speaker 2: rubbing elbows with a lot of like movers and shakers

19:55 Speaker 2: and royalty celebrities, artists, uh, you know, everybody, and uh,

20:04 Speaker 2: in a way it was kind of cool. It was

20:06 Speaker 2: kind of like a mini Studio fifty four in a

20:08 Speaker 2: way because I mean, here I was. I was just

20:12 Speaker 2: a broken artist, you know, but everybody sort of accepted you.

20:16 Speaker 2: But I did see lines and limitations, I mean, you know,

20:25 Speaker 2: and privilege, a lot of privilege and talking about the

20:29 Speaker 2: kind of privilege that this uh comes with something that's green,

20:35 Speaker 2: you know. And uh, there's you know, society, uh boundaries

20:41 Speaker 2: and I want to I want to say rules, but

20:46 Speaker 2: that's probably the wrong word. But you know, so it

20:51 Speaker 2: you know, it has it's had sort of a meaning

20:53 Speaker 2: that uh loosely defines the the upper echelon society in

21:04 Speaker 2: the East Coast there. Yeah, I would say, yeah, and

21:10 Speaker 2: then part of it's kind of interpretive.

21:12 Speaker 1: Sure, well, ultimately, I mean that really is the point, right,

21:16 Speaker 1: you know, music or any kind of art, it's it's

21:19 Speaker 1: really about what it means to the individual who is

21:23 Speaker 1: enjoying that that art, and up to their interpretation. It's

21:28 Speaker 1: it's all subjective, and I've always found it a little

21:33 Speaker 1: disappointing when, you know, if I listen to a song

21:35 Speaker 1: and it means something specific to me, and then I

21:39 Speaker 1: talk to somebody or I read an interview or an

21:41 Speaker 1: article where the musician who wrote it talks about what

21:45 Speaker 1: it's about, and it turns out to be something completely

21:46 Speaker 1: different than what I interpreted it. As you know, I

21:49 Speaker 1: almost don't want to know in that case, you know

21:51 Speaker 1: what I mean, because I want it to mean what

21:54 Speaker 1: it's supposed to mean to me, and that's entirely subjective.

21:58 Speaker 1: So I think there's value in creating art that can

22:01 Speaker 1: ultimately be interpreted anyway, or in this case, anyway the

22:04 Speaker 1: listener wants to interpret it. So I get what you're saying.

22:08 Speaker 1: I definitely, I definitely get that.

22:12 Speaker 2: Well. I'm actually a big fan of that leaving room

22:15 Speaker 2: for interpretation because yeah, like for example, right now, I'm

22:21 Speaker 2: working on an opus or a piece that I wrote

22:25 Speaker 2: a lot of it back in the nineteen eighties and

22:27 Speaker 2: never did anything with it, and that's going to probably

22:31 Speaker 2: be my next project. Words and where you could call

22:36 Speaker 2: it like almost like a rock opera or a something

22:43 Speaker 2: or a concept album, okay, And but the storylines is

22:50 Speaker 2: going to be somewhat interpretive, because you know, the last

22:54 Speaker 2: thing you want is people rolling their eyes. Where there's

22:56 Speaker 2: a tight knit storyline or rock opera or something, it's

23:01 Speaker 2: just ridiculous story I don't even know if the author

23:04 Speaker 2: knows what it means anymore. By the end of it,

23:07 Speaker 2: it's just like, oh, brother, you know, I don't want

23:09 Speaker 2: to be like that, right, I want you want some

23:13 Speaker 2: sort of structure there, but you don't want to be

23:15 Speaker 2: go overboard.

23:17 Speaker 1: Right understood? Understood? Are you Are you already working on

23:21 Speaker 1: new material actively? Because you strike me as someone who

23:24 Speaker 1: probably has a lot of ideas.

23:28 Speaker 2: Well. That that's the thing. I mean, I still have

23:32 Speaker 2: a couple of albums in my head, my solo stuff,

23:35 Speaker 2: and then I got this project that I just talked about,

23:40 Speaker 2: the Cuyahoga projects. So it's like, I don't sit around

23:49 Speaker 2: being myself up about if I'm I'm not being creative

23:53 Speaker 2: enough when you have a backlog of so much material

23:56 Speaker 2: that you haven't even recorded, you know, So that's actually

24:02 Speaker 2: a good place to be for an artist too.

24:04 Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna say, it's actually a good problem.

24:06 Speaker 2: To have right, It kind of is, because if without it,

24:10 Speaker 2: I think I would be sitting around beating myself up

24:13 Speaker 2: over lack of ideas and not being creative enough and

24:16 Speaker 2: just racking my head for ideas.

24:18 Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, no doubt I'd be.

24:21 Speaker 2: My advice to any artists, you know, just build up

24:24 Speaker 2: a backlog and you know, save your sanity.

24:29 Speaker 1: Right Exactly? Do these songs, by the way, do they

24:34 Speaker 1: end up at the end of the process, Do they

24:37 Speaker 1: ever end up drastically different from what your initial idea

24:41 Speaker 1: was because you're again with your music, it's it's unique,

24:44 Speaker 1: and there seems to be a lot of I assume

24:46 Speaker 1: there's a lot of room for experimentation as you're recording them.

24:50 Speaker 1: I mean, do they ever end up do you ever

24:52 Speaker 1: end up with a finished product where you go, Wow,

24:54 Speaker 1: that's completely different than what I originally envisioned this particular

24:57 Speaker 1: piece to sound like?

25:01 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, very much so. A lot of it A

25:06 Speaker 2: lot of times not not not not conceptually or not lyrically,

25:11 Speaker 2: because the lyrics, you know, stay the same and they

25:15 Speaker 2: say the same thing. But I'm all often surprised how

25:21 Speaker 2: songs change stylistically and sonically and audio le if that

25:26 Speaker 2: was the word mostly from the instruments that happens to me.

25:30 Speaker 2: It was like the other day, I was recording a

25:32 Speaker 2: song for a future album called Japantown and it's about

25:40 Speaker 2: it a place in San Francisco when I lived out there,

25:44 Speaker 2: and when I went to add the guitar parts, I

25:49 Speaker 2: started getting all these new ideas and I couldn't believe

25:52 Speaker 2: how drastically it changed, especially the ending of the song. Yeah,

25:56 Speaker 2: you know, but that was a good thing though. But

25:58 Speaker 2: you never know until it's like a painting. You really

26:02 Speaker 2: never know until you're done and you stand back and

26:05 Speaker 2: you look at it say oh wow, I'm seeing all

26:08 Speaker 2: this now and this and I didn't know come out

26:10 Speaker 2: like that, and uh so, yeah, it's a process, absolutely. Yeah.

26:17 Speaker 1: I've heard Jenny say that. You know, she's a painter,

26:19 Speaker 1: and I've heard her say, you know, when a painting

26:22 Speaker 1: is done, or she she feels it's done, she'll say,

26:24 Speaker 1: this isn't what I this isn't what I intended it

26:27 Speaker 1: to be when I started it, or I didn't think

26:29 Speaker 1: this is what it was going to look like. But

26:31 Speaker 1: but it's done. Here it is, you know. But that's

26:33 Speaker 1: kind of the adventure of it, right, creating whether it's

26:35 Speaker 1: painting or music, any kind of art. When it when

26:38 Speaker 1: it ends up, there is something kind of cool about

26:40 Speaker 1: that when it ends up being something different than what

26:43 Speaker 1: you had originally intended. As long as it is in

26:46 Speaker 1: a good way, as long as it's something that you're

26:48 Speaker 1: happy with, that's kind of the adventure of creating.

26:51 Speaker 2: I think, well, yeah, as long as you're happy with that, sure,

26:57 Speaker 2: that's the key. There's there's some times who have recorded

27:00 Speaker 2: stuff that I was like, I didn't think it would

27:04 Speaker 2: come out sounding like that. I want to hear what

27:06 Speaker 2: I heard in my head. You know, right, this is

27:09 Speaker 2: a this is a disaster, you know right, Yeah, that

27:13 Speaker 2: that happens too.

27:15 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, And that's that's not such a

27:17 Speaker 1: great feeling when you get to the end of it

27:19 Speaker 1: and you go, oh, I wish I'd been able to

27:20 Speaker 1: actually play you know, what I had imagined or you know, yeah,

27:26 Speaker 1: and I've certainly had that happen where it's like, jeez,

27:28 Speaker 1: I had this great idea, but I can't seem to

27:30 Speaker 1: figure out how to translate it into actual actual music.

27:35 Speaker 2: There were there were two cover songs on the album. Also,

27:39 Speaker 2: I wanted to mention that they came out as some

27:42 Speaker 2: of the best songs on the album. Really well, So

27:46 Speaker 2: I have one song.

27:47 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, go ahead, go ahead, Oh no, go ahead,

27:50 Speaker 1: Tom finish her. I thought, I'm curious, Well, this.

27:54 Speaker 2: Could be a long thought. That's why I asked you

27:56 Speaker 2: that's okay. Well, the one song I want to be

28:02 Speaker 2: with You Tonight. That was a song by a Cleveland

28:08 Speaker 2: band called Lipstick back in the Day, back in the

28:12 Speaker 2: nineteen eighties. I mean, you couldn't go out to a

28:16 Speaker 2: club and not see that group. You know, they were

28:19 Speaker 2: playing everywhere, and that song always kind of stuck in

28:23 Speaker 2: my head. It was a good song, and I think

28:25 Speaker 2: they released it. I think it charted a little bit

28:28 Speaker 2: on Billboard. I'm not sure I think it did. But

28:33 Speaker 2: I was sitting around the studio one day just playing

28:37 Speaker 2: some stuff and wondering how certain things would sound, and

28:41 Speaker 2: I was like, I wonder if I could, you know,

28:43 Speaker 2: learn a little part of that song. And I when

28:46 Speaker 2: I