Paul Nazole | Matt Connarton Unleashed

0:00 Speaker 1: Oh that is so catchy. And I love the guitar

0:02 Speaker 1: work in that. The track is Nebeka Nezzer, and that

0:05 Speaker 1: is Paul Nasol. I will ask him though, if I'm

0:08 Speaker 1: pronouncing his name correctly.

0:10 Speaker 2: I Paul, Are you there?

0:12 Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I'm there. I know you're not.

0:14 Speaker 2: No, okay, how do you say your name?

0:16 Speaker 3: It's Nazole?

0:18 Speaker 1: Oh, Nazole? Okay, because you are you're you're a lot

0:22 Speaker 1: of different things. Oh I can imagine. Yeah, because you're

0:28 Speaker 1: of I was reading about you. So you're you're from Liverpool, right,

0:31 Speaker 1: but you're of Italian descent, so that the name is

0:34 Speaker 1: Italian I assume.

0:35 Speaker 3: Right, that's right. Yeah, it's like a scouse.

0:39 Speaker 2: Gotcha, gotcha. I love that song a lot.

0:41 Speaker 1: And is that you? Obviously that's your singing. Is that

0:44 Speaker 1: also you on guitar?

0:46 Speaker 3: Yeah?

0:46 Speaker 4: I do some of the guitar. But there's also a

0:48 Speaker 4: guy called Robert Johnson on the guitar.

0:50 Speaker 3: There as well. Okay, he's a great player.

0:53 Speaker 4: Actually he's actually Ginger Baker's nephew. Would you believed, Yeah, yeah,

0:59 Speaker 4: crea tribute. It sounds a little bit Clopton actually doesn't

1:01 Speaker 4: it as well? Oh that's oh, that's wild.

1:05 Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh cool, very very very nice. Yeah, being are

1:08 Speaker 1: you do you currently still live in Liverpool?

1:11 Speaker 4: Yeah at the minute, Yeah, I'm sort of brunching out

1:13 Speaker 4: a little bit, but uh yeah, looking to uh, it's

1:17 Speaker 4: got a little bit further field.

1:18 Speaker 3: But you didn't have a pool of most of my life.

1:21 Speaker 1: I'm curious about and I you won't be the first

1:23 Speaker 1: person I've asked this question of, but like, is there

1:27 Speaker 1: is there a certain pressure that comes with being a

1:30 Speaker 1: musician from a place that is so well known for uh,

1:36 Speaker 1: you know, you know, in terms of of kind of

1:38 Speaker 1: being it's I feel like Liverpool is almost kind of

1:41 Speaker 1: like this this musical center of the universe within that

1:45 Speaker 1: part of the world. What's that like being there in

1:48 Speaker 1: that music scene?

1:50 Speaker 3: It's great. Yeah, you know, it's very insense as well.

1:53 Speaker 4: It can be a little bit of a bubble all

1:55 Speaker 4: of its own, you know, which I imagine a lot

1:56 Speaker 4: of those places are like Nashville and stuff, you know,

1:58 Speaker 4: I mentioned they're all a little bit like that. Yeah,

2:00 Speaker 4: but yeah, there's a lot of great things to be

2:02 Speaker 4: said for it.

2:03 Speaker 3: Man.

2:03 Speaker 4: You know, a lot of a lot of musicians, you know,

2:05 Speaker 4: everyone seems to play guitar. There used to be an

2:08 Speaker 4: old saying back in the nineties used to save you

2:10 Speaker 4: from Liverpool. You either play football, you play guitar, or

2:14 Speaker 4: you were you know, you're up to no good.

2:17 Speaker 2: Right, the young fool, you know.

2:19 Speaker 3: But it's changing a lot.

2:20 Speaker 4: You know, the city has changed a lot over the

2:22 Speaker 4: last twenty years. It's a it used to be quite

2:24 Speaker 4: a poor city. Now it's kind of it's growing a lot.

2:26 Speaker 3: You know.

2:26 Speaker 1: Oh, that's good, explanding, that's good.

2:29 Speaker 2: Did you start playing guitar and singing at a young age?

2:32 Speaker 3: Not really, No.

2:34 Speaker 4: I was also interested in the arts in all different ways,

2:36 Speaker 4: you know, like writing and acting and poetry, and I

2:41 Speaker 4: got into guitar probably about seventeen something like that.

2:43 Speaker 3: I played a bit of keyboards, a lover.

2:44 Speaker 4: The bass, but it was really a little bit later

2:47 Speaker 4: on that it's sours of took over, you know.

2:49 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's unusual. But I assume you know,

2:52 Speaker 1: once you started playing, you probably picked it up quickly.

2:56 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it. I was kind of possessed by it,

2:57 Speaker 3: you know. And yeah, very fest.

3:01 Speaker 2: You had played. Did you start out on keyboard?

3:05 Speaker 4: Yeah, a little bit of keyboards, I think I and

3:07 Speaker 4: you know, I say play keyboard, I think I could

3:08 Speaker 4: play van Halen Jump, yeah, Moonlight sonata, yeah, and like

3:14 Speaker 4: you know, one or two other bits.

3:16 Speaker 3: Now.

3:16 Speaker 1: The reason I was the reason I was curious is

3:19 Speaker 1: I've heard so many music professors and instructors say over

3:22 Speaker 1: the years that no matter what you intend to play

3:25 Speaker 1: for an instrument, you should learn some just some basic

3:28 Speaker 1: keyboard first, because and I can see that. Yeah, and

3:32 Speaker 1: I didn't do that. I didn't do that. I wish

3:33 Speaker 1: I had, But I've just heard so many people say

3:35 Speaker 1: that because it, you know, it teaches you how to

3:38 Speaker 1: in your mind sort of put chords together, and and

3:41 Speaker 1: what you learn from the keyboard will help you with

3:44 Speaker 1: any other instrument that you play.

3:46 Speaker 3: I can imagine that.

3:47 Speaker 4: It's also like visually you can kind of see what's

3:50 Speaker 4: happened in red, you know, the space between the notes

3:56 Speaker 4: and things like that, you.

3:56 Speaker 2: Know exactly exactly, so.

3:59 Speaker 4: You know, I'm writing on the I'm sorts of writing

4:02 Speaker 4: bits on piano at the minute. And it's also very different,

4:05 Speaker 4: you know, you know, guitar can sort of be a

4:07 Speaker 4: very mechanical sort you know, like you kind of hunched

4:10 Speaker 4: around this thing. It's comfortable to play, of course, but

4:12 Speaker 4: you know you are kind of like you know, hunch

4:13 Speaker 4: around it and it's a little bit more physical, where

4:16 Speaker 4: piano you kind of can sit down and it's all

4:19 Speaker 4: there in frontier.

4:20 Speaker 3: You know.

4:20 Speaker 4: It's like when I've I've sometimes have some problems with

4:23 Speaker 4: me jointing my fingers and so piano I can still

4:26 Speaker 4: play just fine, you know, but guitar can be a

4:28 Speaker 4: little bit more taxing, sure, because I've played far too

4:31 Speaker 4: much guitar, you know.

4:34 Speaker 1: Now, So tell us about the single nebukid Nezzar, and

4:38 Speaker 1: I imagine it's probably doing pretty well over there, right.

4:41 Speaker 1: It's such a great track.

4:43 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think in Liverpool.

4:45 Speaker 4: You know, in Liverpool a lot of people know the

4:48 Speaker 4: words to it actually and stuff.

4:49 Speaker 3: You know.

4:49 Speaker 4: It's actually it's got a very you know, it's got

4:52 Speaker 4: a flavor that seems very Liverpool to me, and I

4:56 Speaker 4: guess that. You know, mostly when I play locally, it's

4:59 Speaker 4: it's acoustic and and the song works really nicely acoustically

5:01 Speaker 4: stripped back.

5:02 Speaker 3: You know, it sounds a.

5:03 Speaker 4: Little bit more Beatles when you when we recorded it,

5:05 Speaker 4: but yeah, when when I play it, you know, locally,

5:10 Speaker 4: and it's more stripped back, it's got more of like

5:12 Speaker 4: a folky sort of feel. You know, and yeah it did.

5:16 Speaker 4: You know, you can always tell a good song, you know.

5:17 Speaker 4: This seems to resonate with people. You can see it

5:19 Speaker 4: very quickly, you know, especially with the musicians, so to

5:22 Speaker 4: see their eyes light up, you know. And it's funny

5:25 Speaker 4: actually because it was one of those songs that I

5:26 Speaker 4: wrote very quickly. It all just came out in one go.

5:30 Speaker 4: And you know, I used to be able to do

5:31 Speaker 4: a lot more when I was younger. Right now is

5:34 Speaker 4: a little bit more ponderous, you know, but but yeah,

5:37 Speaker 4: there's something to be said for it. I think those

5:39 Speaker 4: songs that come out very quickly, you sort of channel them,

5:42 Speaker 4: you know.

5:43 Speaker 1: Well also too, if if people are learning the words,

5:46 Speaker 1: you know, if you're playing it at shows and people

5:47 Speaker 1: know the words, then you know it's really resonating, you know.

5:50 Speaker 3: Definitely.

5:50 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's one hundred percent, because you know, you

5:52 Speaker 4: get you get songs which are like very pleasant to

5:54 Speaker 4: listen to, you know, but but when it's got that

5:58 Speaker 4: catchy thing, there's there's something he said, and that's kind

6:00 Speaker 4: of you know, that's a view I kind of have

6:02 Speaker 4: on on art as well.

6:04 Speaker 3: In poetry and in stuff. I think I read it.

6:07 Speaker 4: It was a guy in like the twenties or something,

6:09 Speaker 4: was like critiquing the modernist poets, you know, T. S.

6:12 Speaker 4: Eliot and people like that, and he was saying that,

6:14 Speaker 4: you know, the flowery language and the mastery of language

6:17 Speaker 4: that these guys had was amazing, and he didn't want

6:20 Speaker 4: to critique that, but he said, there's something beautiful about

6:23 Speaker 4: sorts of the folk poetry of rhyme, which is that

6:26 Speaker 4: like children could recite this stuff around the fire, you know,

6:29 Speaker 4: and yeah, and it stuck in the mind and it

6:31 Speaker 4: furnished their minds with beautiful words, you know, and and

6:34 Speaker 4: there was something really nice about that. And I think

6:36 Speaker 4: songs can have that's just's room for everything, but there's

6:38 Speaker 4: something to be said for that type of stuff, you know.

6:41 Speaker 4: And that's I always try and put a bit of

6:42 Speaker 4: focus on rhyme. And I always think if you can

6:45 Speaker 4: say what you're trying to say and make it rhyme,

6:47 Speaker 4: then maybe you're onto someting, you know.

6:50 Speaker 1: Right, right, absolutely, So, can you tell us more about

6:54 Speaker 1: the single Nebuchadnezzar? Where where does it come from? And

6:57 Speaker 1: what are the themes are exploring in the song?

7:01 Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's sort of about, like, you know, first

7:05 Speaker 4: of all, I guess it's like it felt like to

7:07 Speaker 4: me like it was coming to grips with a lot

7:10 Speaker 4: of stuff, a lot of like troubles and confusion. That

7:12 Speaker 4: was like a central theme to it, you know. And

7:14 Speaker 4: never connessed himself, the old King of Babylon. He was

7:19 Speaker 4: tormented by dreams, you know, and he's this sort of

7:21 Speaker 4: conflicting figure who God punishes but also seems to love

7:26 Speaker 4: because he lets him be redeemed, you know. And that

7:28 Speaker 4: was what sort of I like the idea, And it's

7:30 Speaker 4: just a great way, doesn't it from that way straight away?

7:34 Speaker 3: You know? And yeah, so it was like sort of

7:37 Speaker 3: going through it in my own life. It was a

7:39 Speaker 3: very confusing time. I was I had a kid on

7:43 Speaker 3: the way.

7:44 Speaker 4: I was also going through a new relationship with a

7:47 Speaker 4: musician which.

7:48 Speaker 3: Was total chaos.

7:51 Speaker 4: And so yeah, it was like, I guess, the confusing

7:52 Speaker 4: time in my life, and it all came came about

7:56 Speaker 4: from that. And also it was when I was quite

7:58 Speaker 4: like getting back into music. Really it was when I

8:00 Speaker 4: was what saydy that I got back to and I

8:03 Speaker 4: used to run a music venue for a long time,

8:05 Speaker 4: really taken me away from performing. Yeah, it was a great,

8:08 Speaker 4: famous old place actually it was a recording studio that

8:10 Speaker 4: it turned into a bar so where cold Play recorded

8:13 Speaker 4: two albums actually, amongst amongst many others. Yeah, it was

8:16 Speaker 4: great pastory studios. It was called it Got It Got Bulldoze. Unfortunately,

8:21 Speaker 4: I would have been quite happy to to try and

8:23 Speaker 4: buy the venue and life different paths, but instead, when

8:27 Speaker 4: it closed, I thought, well, maybe I'll try music again instead,

8:29 Speaker 4: And so for me, NEB also represents like the start

8:33 Speaker 4: of an adventure, you know, and I think that it

8:35 Speaker 4: kind of sounds like that a little bit, you know.

8:36 Speaker 4: I like the trumpet and we added some trumpet in

8:38 Speaker 4: a Yes, the trump always makes you think it's like.

8:41 Speaker 3: A herald, you know, It's like it does.

8:43 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right.

8:45 Speaker 4: The King is coming to town and the world trumpet

8:47 Speaker 4: plays with veagle, you know that's right.

8:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. I hadn't even thought of that, but

8:50 Speaker 2: you're right.

8:51 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, the production, the product, the production is fantastic.

8:55 Speaker 1: Uh now who did you who did you work with

8:58 Speaker 1: on that?

8:58 Speaker 2: As far as uh production? And is that the same?

9:02 Speaker 2: Is it the same for the entire album?

9:06 Speaker 3: Yeah?

9:06 Speaker 4: Mostly it's It was a mixed by Goat and recorded

9:09 Speaker 4: by a guy called Russell Cottier Soundhouse Recording Studio, which

9:13 Speaker 4: is an amazing old recording studio, a little hidden gem

9:16 Speaker 4: actually in Liverpool, not many people seem to know about.

9:19 Speaker 4: And it was in my hometown, which was just was

9:23 Speaker 4: really what drew me to. I thought like it was nice,

9:25 Speaker 4: something nice about that being close to home, and.

9:29 Speaker 3: Yeah, Russell done a great job. But actually there was.

9:31 Speaker 4: Some of the parts we recorded at another studio as well,

9:35 Speaker 4: like a home studio, and I think that was the

9:39 Speaker 4: fiddle parts and some of the harmony parts were recorded

9:43 Speaker 4: externally from a previous attempt at recording the single. But

9:48 Speaker 4: like you know, that's the thing. It was like budgets

9:50 Speaker 4: and stuff defeated. That was a bit limister done what

9:52 Speaker 4: I could do. So when we got the chance to,

9:55 Speaker 4: I got picked up with a manager, fuel the Fire,

9:58 Speaker 4: and they produced the album for me in there.

10:01 Speaker 2: Oh wow.

10:02 Speaker 3: So having a bit of a budget and stuff together

10:04 Speaker 3: and a.

10:06 Speaker 4: Bigger a bigger crew of musicians to draw from and stuff,

10:13 Speaker 4: we had another going and put it together and.

10:15 Speaker 3: I'm pretty happy with it.

10:15 Speaker 4: I'd like to record an acoustic version of it with

10:18 Speaker 4: a flute or something, but oh yeah, it means still

10:22 Speaker 4: have happened yet and now.

10:24 Speaker 1: This is is this your first this album? Is this

10:27 Speaker 1: your first release as a solo artist?

10:29 Speaker 3: Yeah?

10:30 Speaker 4: Yeah, there was a couple of like basic singles put

10:32 Speaker 4: out in from home studios, but this is the first

10:34 Speaker 4: proper release really.

10:35 Speaker 3: Yeah.

10:36 Speaker 1: Okay, Now, now were you playing in bands before? I

10:39 Speaker 1: know you mentioned you kind of took a break too

10:41 Speaker 1: from playing because you're running running a venue, But prior

10:44 Speaker 1: to that, were you playing in bands or maybe during that?

10:46 Speaker 3: Yeah?

10:47 Speaker 4: Yeah, for a long time, from like say seventeen to

10:51 Speaker 4: twenty five, I was always mostly as a lead guitarist,

10:54 Speaker 4: never as a singer.

10:55 Speaker 3: Oh really, I done a lot of rights. Yeah, I've

10:57 Speaker 3: done a lot of writing.

10:57 Speaker 4: For chords and things like that, but I've got a

11:00 Speaker 4: couple of other projects coming out. Actually, so did a

11:02 Speaker 4: lot of collaborations and league guitar in bands.

11:05 Speaker 3: With tons of people in Liverpool.

11:07 Speaker 4: But yeah, never really put it forward as you know,

11:11 Speaker 4: as an artist in my own right. So this was

11:13 Speaker 4: the first time to really try and do that, you know,

11:16 Speaker 4: because in Liverpool had sort of been that kind of character.

11:18 Speaker 4: I was kind of someone who like brought things together,

11:21 Speaker 4: you know, sort of hosting open mics and putting on

11:24 Speaker 4: events and sure, and so a lot of my stuff

11:27 Speaker 4: that I'd done was really all about collaboration and community,

11:30 Speaker 4: and so it was nice to finally do something that

11:31 Speaker 4: was kind of like, well, this is more about me

11:34 Speaker 4: being an artist now, you know.

11:36 Speaker 1: Was that always kind of the goal even when you

11:38 Speaker 1: were playing in bands consistently. Was it always kind of

11:41 Speaker 1: in the back of your mind that you would eventually

11:43 Speaker 1: do a solo album.

11:45 Speaker 3: No?

11:45 Speaker 4: Never, really, I don't think I really had the belief

11:49 Speaker 4: or the confidence, you know. And then I think as

11:50 Speaker 4: I was getting older in the venue, didn't warhouse.

11:52 Speaker 3: I thought, you know, you better do something, you know, right,

11:56 Speaker 3: And also, you know.

11:57 Speaker 4: It was also that kind of thing of you know, like,

12:00 Speaker 4: ultimately you've got to take your destiny in your own hands,

12:03 Speaker 4: haven't you. So I'd played with a lot of bands

12:06 Speaker 4: that I thought was great, but for one reason or another,

12:08 Speaker 4: they wouldn't work out, and you know, you would dependent

12:12 Speaker 4: on four or five other people being on the same page.

12:15 Speaker 4: So just by necessity, it was like, what if I

12:17 Speaker 4: want to have a real go with this, I'm gonna

12:19 Speaker 4: have to do it for myself, you know.

12:20 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the hardest thing I think about being in

12:23 Speaker 1: a band is you know, I've I've been in a

12:25 Speaker 1: lot of bands, and it's it's hard when you because

12:29 Speaker 1: you've got people with varying degrees of commitment and and yeah,

12:33 Speaker 1: you know, and in terms of what their vision is

12:35 Speaker 1: for for what you're doing, and and it's, uh, that

12:38 Speaker 1: can be really challenging. Plus you got to deal with

12:40 Speaker 1: everyone's schedules and whatnot. So there's so many things, you know, Yeah,

12:43 Speaker 1: there's so many musicians we've had.

12:45 Speaker 3: You know, people people have kids and you know, everything

12:48 Speaker 3: and it can change.

12:49 Speaker 1: Things, you know exactly, and also people.

12:51 Speaker 3: People see it. You know. For me, it's very important,

12:53 Speaker 3: you know.

12:53 Speaker 4: It's the kind of stuff I just think about all

12:54 Speaker 4: the time, you know, not just just music, but also

12:56 Speaker 4: like writing little poems and things. You know, it's just

12:59 Speaker 4: sort of how I live, you know. And it also

13:02 Speaker 4: sorts of occurred to me in the end that it's

13:03 Speaker 4: unrealistic to expect anyone else to have that same.

13:09 Speaker 3: Right, right, maybe you know.

13:12 Speaker 1: Now you did mention, so you're going to be doing

13:14 Speaker 1: going forward. You are going to be doing some more

13:16 Speaker 1: collaborating though, So I like, what what's kind of the

13:18 Speaker 1: is the solo is the solo stuff that you're doing,

13:21 Speaker 1: is that kind of the main priority, and the other

13:23 Speaker 1: things are ancillary or or.

13:25 Speaker 3: How do I think I'll do them.

13:27 Speaker 4: I'll do them as a you know, under my own name,

13:29 Speaker 4: as a collaboration maybe with with some of the artists

13:31 Speaker 4: I'm looking and I'm actually planning at the minute to

13:33 Speaker 4: go to a sort of farm on the Southwest and

13:37 Speaker 4: do something kind of routine, you know, with a maybe

13:41 Speaker 4: live take a little bit of it.

13:42 Speaker 3: Because there's two dimensions to me.

13:43 Speaker 4: I supposed to grew up as a bit of a

13:45 Speaker 4: rock but as I've got older and I've supposed to

13:48 Speaker 4: become a bit folky. Yeah, I guess we had to

13:52 Speaker 4: talk with the two. But I feel like with the album,

13:55 Speaker 4: I was able to get a lot of the rock

13:56 Speaker 4: stuff helped me system. And now I'd like to do

13:59 Speaker 4: something maybe a little bit more routine and you know,

14:02 Speaker 4: and also, you know, like a lot of the stuff

14:05 Speaker 4: on the album, it's a little bit I don't know,

14:08 Speaker 4: like the subject matters and stuff, and often a little

14:10 Speaker 4: bit self indulgent, you know, it's offing about offing about me.

14:13 Speaker 4: I'd like to do something maybe a little bit more

14:14 Speaker 4: about the world, you know. Notice, but if it's a

14:17 Speaker 4: crazy time in the world, you know.

14:21 Speaker 3: I've noticed especially where you are, man, you know.

14:24 Speaker 2: You're you're not getting dude, You're not kidding.

14:28 Speaker 4: And also you know, like also like the rise of

14:30 Speaker 4: AI and stuff like that, and you know, I don't

14:32 Speaker 4: even want to I don't even want to put you know,

14:35 Speaker 4: value dridgones and everything. I just kind of want to

14:37 Speaker 4: maybe step back and just observe and just sort of

14:40 Speaker 4: write what I'm seeing, you know, and not you know,

14:43 Speaker 4: try and get pretty earth and but you know, just

14:46 Speaker 4: sort of say what I see.

14:47 Speaker 3: You know, is that.

14:48 Speaker 1: Something that you're concerned about AI in terms of because

14:52 Speaker 1: that's something we talked about a lot on the show.

14:53 Speaker 4: I'm glad you brought it up. Man, I've had some

14:55 Speaker 4: radical thoughts on it lately. That's piss a few people off,

14:58 Speaker 4: you know, But I kind of think, you know, you know,

15:01 Speaker 4: the two ways I could criticize it is like the

15:03 Speaker 4: technological sides, you know, and what that means for the

15:06 Speaker 4: industry and that. But really, you know, you know, I

15:09 Speaker 4: know a lot of successful bands now are playing to

15:10 Speaker 4: backend tracks, and and you know a lot of people

15:13 Speaker 4: using plugins instead of real instruments, and and a lot

15:16 Speaker 4: of people you know, like like there's drum machines out there,

15:20 Speaker 4: there's I mean, where the line is, I'm not sure anymore.

15:23 Speaker 4: So that was one side of thoughts about the Technologically,

15:25 Speaker 4: I was like, maybe actually this is just something that's

15:27 Speaker 4: always happened. And then the other side of it was

15:29 Speaker 4: kind of about authenticity. But I really I thought, you know,

15:32 Speaker 4: like looking at the stage of the you know, like

15:35 Speaker 4: I always say, Sabrina Carpenter might as well be AI.

15:38 Speaker 3: You know, it's like, I don't know what.

15:41 Speaker 4: And also even the politicians are all fake, you know,

15:43 Speaker 4: and and everything seems kind of a little bit in

15:46 Speaker 4: authentic in the world.

15:47 Speaker 3: And so that doesn't really scare me.

15:49 Speaker 4: I feel like artists who have got something to say

15:51 Speaker 4: are still going to stand out, you know, So I

15:55 Speaker 4: don't know, maybe they eye isn't really something to be feared.

15:58 Speaker 4: I personally don't fee all too threatened by it.

16:01 Speaker 3: You know.

16:02 Speaker 4: Also, the industry has been in the industry has been

16:04 Speaker 4: in a bit of a bad way for a long time,

16:05 Speaker 4: hasn't it in regards to making any money and stuff

16:08 Speaker 4: in the way Spotify, you know, I see that with

16:10 Speaker 4: Spotify a lot, you know, like when I was there

16:12 Speaker 4: trying to promote the album I'd sort of fall prey

16:15 Speaker 4: to these things on social media, and you'd see these

16:17 Speaker 4: guys and they'd be talking about, you know, how to

16:20 Speaker 4: promote your music. And people were getting very good at

16:23 Speaker 4: like gaming the system almost, you know, so they could

16:25 Speaker 4: get on these playlists and and and these guys had

16:28 Speaker 4: like millions of plays. But when I've listened to the music,

16:30 Speaker 4: I was like, it's so mediocre. I don't know, that's

16:32 Speaker 4: just my taste. But from my point of view, I

16:34 Speaker 4: was like, you know, this music must have millions of plays,

16:37 Speaker 4: But what does that even mean. I don't think anyone's

16:39 Speaker 4: going to care about this in ten years time, so

16:41 Speaker 4: what are we even doing here anymore? And so really

16:44 Speaker 4: with the I I think I'm thinking, what does it

16:46 Speaker 4: really change? Like what, there's a load of fake music? Well,

16:48 Speaker 4: there's already a load of fake music made by humans,

16:50 Speaker 4: you know.

16:51 Speaker 3: Right, maybe this is going to shake the tree.

16:54 Speaker 4: A little bit, you know, and maybe maybe it's going

16:57 Speaker 4: to be okay, but really, you know, it's not. It's

17:00 Speaker 4: you know, I think there's more a fear from AI

17:01 Speaker 4: for how than how it's going to affect music, you know.

17:04 Speaker 2: Right, Oh yeah, A true good.

17:06 Speaker 3: Points like what do you think you like it or

17:08 Speaker 3: do you hate it?

17:09 Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you I I I like what you

17:12 Speaker 1: said about how you know, AI is already in some degrees,

17:17 Speaker 1: it's already been there, especially with you know, you have

17:20 Speaker 1: bands who use backing tracks and plugins and all that.

17:23 Speaker 1: So it's not as though it's not as though technology

17:26 Speaker 1: has not been helping artists to kind of I don't

17:28 Speaker 1: want to say cheat because I don't make any value

17:30 Speaker 1: judgment about it, but.

17:31 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but but.

17:33 Speaker 1: But but to kind of enhance the live experience, shall

17:36 Speaker 1: we say? But that's but but of course, a lot

17:39 Speaker 1: of that's been forever, Like you know, bands using backing

17:42 Speaker 1: tracks for backing vocals for example during live shows. I mean,

17:46 Speaker 1: that's that's been happening for decades. So so there's nothing

17:50 Speaker 1: new to a lot of it. But it is staggering

17:53 Speaker 1: to me. Something that I find kind of fun, even

17:56 Speaker 1: though I feel a little bit guilty about it, is

17:58 Speaker 1: like going on YouTube and find these AI generated versions

18:02 Speaker 1: of songs, you know, new versions like uh you know,

18:07 Speaker 1: like like there's this one uh channel on YouTube where

18:10 Speaker 1: they make AI generated versions of of hard rock and

18:14 Speaker 1: metal versions of songs from like the Backstreet Boys, the

18:19 Speaker 1: New kids on the block, and and the thing is,

18:21 Speaker 1: I listen to these and they're really good, Like they're

18:26 Speaker 1: actually really well done and fun to listen to, and

18:29 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, but knowing that somebody made that. Now, granted,

18:34 Speaker 1: some of these probably they're made with prompts, but then

18:37 Speaker 1: they're they're tweaked in certain ways.

18:39 Speaker 2: I don't think they're I don't think it's they're.

18:42 Speaker 1: That simple, but but it is, you know, it is, Uh,

18:48 Speaker 1: it's scary because because then it gets you to the question,

18:52 Speaker 1: if you if you think about it this far, is

18:54 Speaker 1: there a use for for actual musicians at a certain point.

18:59 Speaker 2: If you can, if you can just make.

19:01 Speaker 1: AI create whatever you want, whatever it is that you,

19:04 Speaker 1: as an individual listener want to hear, If that's within reach,

19:08 Speaker 1: why do you even need other people to make music

19:10 Speaker 1: for you to listen to?

19:12 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's definitely, you know, that's where there's

19:14 Speaker 4: some of these. I think they had the points of

19:16 Speaker 4: real tension that we should we can talk about, you know.

19:19 Speaker 4: But also that in itself is nothing new, you know,

19:22 Speaker 4: like there was tons of industries that would dramatically changed

19:25 Speaker 4: by technological progress, you know, and often no one really

19:29 Speaker 4: cared how often people really valued the convenience over anything else,

19:35 Speaker 4: you know, Like my granddad worked on Liverpool Docks, and

19:40 Speaker 4: prior to Liverpool's decline in like the seventies eighties, the

19:43 Speaker 4: Liverpool Docks employed thousands upon thousands of people. And not

19:48 Speaker 4: only was there there was political things that happened in

19:51 Speaker 4: the Satchey years that really really celestered the decline, but

19:54 Speaker 4: besides that, you know, machinery was changed into a way

19:58 Speaker 4: that a job that maybe needed twenty guys to do

20:00 Speaker 4: could now be done with one guy with a machine, right,

20:02 Speaker 4: and there was.

20:04 Speaker 3: An inevitability to it, you know.

20:05 Speaker 4: And even really some of the processes of globalization, you know,

20:09 Speaker 4: like England has no manufacturing anymore, and that was because

20:12 Speaker 4: it was cheaper to do it somewhere else, you know,

20:14 Speaker 4: and I guess that's happened everywhere. And you know that's

20:17 Speaker 4: also these processes that have happened. Like part of me

20:20 Speaker 4: kind of sees all of this is like, well, look,

20:22 Speaker 4: you know, we all went along with all of this.

20:24 Speaker 4: You know, for generations, we've all gone along with all

20:26 Speaker 4: of this. This is this is the bed we've made,

20:28 Speaker 4: Like we're going to hark and lie in it, you know,

20:30 Speaker 4: and adapts to it a little bit. Maybe you know,

20:33 Speaker 4: it's not going away, is the truth. You know, it's

20:35 Speaker 4: not going away. And they are positives, you know, I've

20:38 Speaker 4: seen recently, can't what it was coreed, but something popped

20:42 Speaker 4: up on social media and this guy had Tuesday eyes

20:44 Speaker 4: to make a graphic novel. And the guy's ideas were great,

20:48 Speaker 4: and I was thinking, you know, like this is my thing.

20:50 Speaker 4: You know, Like the music industry is also like very

20:53 Speaker 4: nepotistic these days, you know, it's very Sometimes it seems

20:56 Speaker 4: hemetically sealed, you know, it seems like it's an inside

20:59 Speaker 4: this club, you know. And and and the art can

21:02 Speaker 4: be like that in lots of ways. And also social

21:04 Speaker 4: class becomes a big barrier. You know, all the all

21:06 Speaker 4: the successful musicians, I know, almost always they come from

21:10 Speaker 4: a wealthy background, you know.

21:12 Speaker 3: And so there's.

21:14 Speaker 4: A thing like that which is like, you know, this

21:15 Speaker 4: guy making his graphic novel, he would not have had

21:18 Speaker 4: the money or the backing to ever make this thing.

21:22 Speaker 4: But in terms of the ideas and the scenes and

21:24 Speaker 4: stuff he's playing with, it's very interesting, you know to me.

21:27 Speaker 4: And I thought, well, you know what this tool has

21:30 Speaker 4: enabled this person who has something exceptional in the idea,

21:35 Speaker 4: and this thing would never have been made. And you know,

21:37 Speaker 4: like so often you see what the industry, whether it's

21:40 Speaker 4: Hollywood or anything else, is chaining out. You know, there's

21:42 Speaker 4: for me, there's a there's been a bit of a

21:44 Speaker 4: decline in quality in the mainstream, you know, and partly

21:47 Speaker 4: I think that's because of this, these these problems.

21:51 Speaker 3: You know.

21:51 Speaker 4: It's like, you know, in England, we used to produce

21:53 Speaker 4: great bands from working class communities like Oasis. You know,

21:55 Speaker 4: I might have been a fan of Oasis, but I

21:57 Speaker 4: like it, you know, and I like what they've done.

21:59 Speaker 4: But you know, I don't know if a band like

22:01 Speaker 4: Oasis could could exist in this climates anymore.

22:04 Speaker 3: You know.

22:05 Speaker 1: Yeah.

22:05 Speaker 2: Interesting.

22:06 Speaker 4: I'm not saying AI the answer to that, but I'm

22:08 Speaker 4: just saying, look, there's a lot of problems that we're

22:10 Speaker 4: not solving here. And actually there's some benefits to AI.

22:13 Speaker 4: There's an element of it which is very democratizing. You know,

22:17 Speaker 4: he's to learn about that. You know, the idea that

22:19 Speaker 4: like home studios. Making home studios made music a lot

22:24 Speaker 4: more accessible to lots and lots of people, which everyone

22:27 Speaker 4: champion does a great thing. It was very bad for

22:29 Speaker 4: professional recording studios, you know, like, what do we want

22:33 Speaker 4: to do here? You know, it's the same for musicians,

22:35 Speaker 4: and in a lot of ways from the artist's point

22:37 Speaker 4: of view.

22:37 Speaker 3: You know, so often if an artist.

22:39 Speaker 4: Wants his vision requires a violin, he has to pay

22:44 Speaker 4: a violin. It's not and yeah, that's great for this

22:45 Speaker 4: sort of ecosystem with musicians and stuff. But if he's

22:48 Speaker 4: not able to do that, he can't make the art.

22:50 Speaker 4: And maybe the art important, you know, maybe the art

22:52 Speaker 4: is more important than someone getting paid.

22:55 Speaker 3: You know, I don't know, I don't know.

22:57 Speaker 4: I'm not saying it is making the you know, going

23:00 Speaker 4: to be wedded to that idea, And I'm just saying

23:01 Speaker 4: I feel like there's a bigger conversation here than than

23:04 Speaker 4: what you often seeing from from local musicians.

23:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, because ultimately, you know, one thing that you can't

23:10 Speaker 1: do is you can't hold back technology.

23:12 Speaker 3: So you can't. It's a lose. It's a losing.

23:15 Speaker 4: It's like the old Western I always think it's like

23:17 Speaker 4: the old Western films. You know, you get this old

23:19 Speaker 4: cowboy and it's super romantic and the railroads coming through

23:23 Speaker 4: the town, you know, and he's like holding onto the

23:26 Speaker 4: old ways.

23:27 Speaker 3: And we love it.

23:28 Speaker 4: It's romantic. It's like we want him to you know.

23:30 Speaker 4: Ultimately it's the cowboys are over, you know, right right,

23:34 Speaker 4: or like you know, like medieval nights. I used to

23:36 Speaker 4: think that was the most romantic thing in the world.

23:38 Speaker 4: Was like a guy having a soord fight, you know,

23:40 Speaker 4: and then someone invites invents a gun, and it's like, well,

23:44 Speaker 4: you know, a different game now.

23:45 Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah you can't, yeah, you can't hold it back,

23:48 Speaker 1: and it's uh uh.

23:50 Speaker 2: So all you can do.

23:51 Speaker 1: And you know, the music industry I think already learned

23:55 Speaker 1: this lesson once, maybe not well enough, you know, because

23:58 Speaker 1: I remember when you know, I'm old enough to remember,

24:00 Speaker 1: or when when Napster first sappened, and you know, and

24:03 Speaker 1: everybody in the music industry was freaking out, Oh you

24:05 Speaker 1: can just fileshare, you can all this music is free.

24:07 Speaker 2: Now, you know, what, what what are we going to do?

24:10 Speaker 1: You know, because at the time I was working for

24:11 Speaker 1: I was a manager for a retail chain here and

24:15 Speaker 1: here in the States called Strawberries, which later became absorbed

24:18 Speaker 1: into another larger music retail chain. But that was but

24:22 Speaker 1: that there was panic, I mean, there was absolute panic

24:25 Speaker 1: in the industry and the company that I worked for.

24:27 Speaker 1: It was like, well, why are people going to come

24:29 Speaker 1: in and buy CDs now?

24:31 Speaker 3: You know, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly, you know so.

24:34 Speaker 1: But but you can't. You can't stop it, you can't

24:37 Speaker 1: hold it back. All you can do is adapt and

24:39 Speaker 1: try to figure it out. And I think, I think,

24:43 Speaker 1: but I think we're at another inflection point with that.

24:45 Speaker 1: You know, we can't hold it back, so we got

24:47 Speaker 1: to just figure it out, you.

24:49 Speaker 3: Know, And yeah, you got to decide what what it means.

24:52 Speaker 4: You know, yeah, I guess, like, you know, I kind

24:54 Speaker 4: of I respect, I'm not going to say pass. And

24:56 Speaker 4: I see a lot of people who are sort of

24:58 Speaker 4: trying to draw a line in the sun and saying

25:00 Speaker 4: we're gonna we're gonna keep this. You know, we're gonna,

25:02 Speaker 4: you know, people who mess around with AI, We're gonna

25:05 Speaker 4: kind of gate keeping them.

25:06 Speaker 3: We're gonna say, you know, no, that's not cool.

25:07 Speaker 4: You know, we're gonna we're gonna ostracize it in some

25:10 Speaker 4: way or you know, close ranks. And I'm like, yeah, cool,

25:14 Speaker 4: you know, like make your stand. But you might just

25:16 Speaker 4: be that old cowboy, you know, right, you're gonna get railroaded,

25:20 Speaker 4: you know, And really like, like I said, I really think,

25:24 Speaker 4: like I really think if you if you can try

25:27 Speaker 4: and get back to the art form more because you know,

25:30 Speaker 4: so much music now is just commodity. You know, so

25:33 Speaker 4: much pop music, you know, the Sabrina Carpenter stuff is

25:35 Speaker 4: just commodity. Like there's not I mean, it's interesting in

25:38 Speaker 4: a way. Popular culture is always interested in as a

25:40 Speaker 4: way of understanding society, you know, and where it's at.

25:43 Speaker 4: But as far as I can see it where it's at,

25:45 Speaker 4: it's not a great place already. And a lot of

25:48 Speaker 4: the art is just commodity. And it's really difficult because

25:51 Speaker 4: you know, at least in like the sixties and stuff,

25:53 Speaker 4: you know, some of the popular stuff that was breaking

25:56 Speaker 4: through was was really artistically viable, you know, like Dylan,

26:00 Speaker 4: Bob Dylan, I mean he's writing lyrics in those early

26:03 Speaker 4: years that are up there with like T s Elliot

26:05 Speaker 4: and all these poets.

26:06 Speaker 3: You know.

26:06 Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, you know, And that's what I think

26:08 Speaker 4: is like a I will be able to replace Sabrina Carpenter,

26:13 Speaker 4: but I'm not sure he could replace Bob Dunna.

26:16 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point for the.

26:17 Speaker 3: Next Bob doing.

26:18 Speaker 4: The next Bob done you know, whatever the future version

26:20 Speaker 4: of of a great artist is, I'm not sure it'll

26:22 Speaker 4: be able to do that. I think it will always

26:24 Speaker 4: be playing catch up too, you know, those sorts of humans,

26:29 Speaker 4: you know.

26:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, because without everything that came before it, it has

26:32 Speaker 1: nothing to draw from, so it needs.

26:33 Speaker 4: Exactly Yeah, so maybe it'll drive innovation and it'll ye

26:38 Speaker 4: And also, you know, I find it, you know, even locally,

26:42 Speaker 4: like you know, I'm not trying to to break into

26:45 Speaker 4: some pop thing or to be a mainstream thing at all.

26:48 Speaker 3: You know, I don't really think it's viable for me, but.

26:50 Speaker 4: I certainly have found there's still a lot of people

26:54 Speaker 4: who are who are looking for something, you know, the

27:00 Speaker 4: maybe is trying to be a little bit more artsy

27:02 Speaker 4: or something, you know, and there's still a place for.

27:06 Speaker 3: It, you know. Yeah, And you know it's maybe it'll

27:10 Speaker 3: carry on like that.

27:11 Speaker 4: You know, maybe it'll be something that forced people to

27:15 Speaker 4: really think about what does matter in a work of art.

27:18 Speaker 4: And if you really don't like the idea that a

27:19 Speaker 4: computer is making it, well, what do you like about

27:22 Speaker 4: the fact that it's a human making it? And you know,

27:24 Speaker 4: maybe we have to start actually making some distinctions, you know,

27:27 Speaker 4: I think.

27:27 Speaker 3: That's gonna happen. But you know, it's an interesting thing

27:30 Speaker 3: to think about.

27:30 Speaker 1: It is it is, it's it's a very interesting time

27:33 Speaker 1: to be alive. That's that's for sure. Well, Paul, this

27:38 Speaker 1: has been wonderful. I love the album. I do want

27:41 Speaker 1: so I'm going to count for absolutely. So I'm going

27:43 Speaker 1: to kind of put you on the spot here because

27:45 Speaker 1: in a moment after we let you go, I'm going

27:47 Speaker 1: to play another track from the album to close out

27:50 Speaker 1: the segment. But obviously we did play the single Nebukodnezzer

27:54 Speaker 1: to open. But what song would you like us to

27:57 Speaker 1: play at the end of our conversation.

28:00 Speaker 3: There's there's two.

28:01 Speaker 4: You know, I have some conflicted feelings on the album.

28:05 Speaker 4: There's a lot of things that didn't quite it's a

28:07 Speaker 4: difficult times, to be totally honest with you. A lot

28:10 Speaker 4: of health problems while I was trying to make it

28:12 Speaker 4: and stuff. Yeah, and just a lot of complex things,

28:17 Speaker 4: you know. But but you know, there's a few bets

28:21 Speaker 4: that came out. I think there's one song called why

28:24 Speaker 4: Go Home, and there's this song there called linger On,

28:27 Speaker 4: And I think those ones that are interesting to me,

28:29 Speaker 4: maybe not the the catches or anything. But I think

28:32 Speaker 4: they they're the ones that came out that I really like, you.

28:34 Speaker 3: Know, you know what I have The album just has

28:37 Speaker 3: too many styles.

28:38 Speaker 4: On it, you know, I seem to be something, honest, Yeah,

28:40 Speaker 4: my health was getting so bad I started this is

28:42 Speaker 4: so dramatically, so typical of an artist. I'm a lot better.

28:45 Speaker 4: Know by the time, I thought that, you know, I

28:47 Speaker 4: might make this album and just die, you know. Yeah,

28:52 Speaker 4: well no, because I'm still alive, you know, but yeah,

28:56 Speaker 4: being a dramatic artist, you know. But yeah, you know,

29:01 Speaker 4: like I was, I was just kind of like, well,

29:02 Speaker 4: you know what, I'm just going to record all my

29:04 Speaker 4: favorite songs that I never recorded over the last ten years,

29:06 Speaker 4: and I'm just gonna put them all on there. And

29:08 Speaker 4: maybe that should have been three EP's or something. Stylistically,

29:11 Speaker 4: it's a bit all over the place, but yeah, I

29:14 Speaker 4: Go Homes a nice country track, and linger On's kind

29:16 Speaker 4: of like a weird little pop pop sort of folky thing.

29:20 Speaker 3: I don't know, I'll have time.

29:22 Speaker 2: I'm actually I'll play both of them. I'll play both

29:24 Speaker 2: of them.

29:24 Speaker 1: At the end of.

29:26 Speaker 3: I wasn't hanging for that. I just couldn't decide.

29:28 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's that's okay. No, I'll play both of them.

29:31 Speaker 1: We'll have time.

29:31 Speaker 2: I would love to awesome, Paul.

29:34 Speaker 1: Where's the best place for people to go online to

29:36 Speaker 1: keep up with everything that you are doing.

29:40 Speaker 4: So right now? Just YouTube? Man or Spotify? I guess

29:44 Speaker 4: you know, I have a Facebook. I don't really engagement

29:49 Speaker 4: with social media right now. I'm kind of like I

29:51 Speaker 4: had some problems with Instagram and it closed down the accounts,

29:53 Speaker 4: which was quite oh really a lot of followers on there? Yeah, yeah,

29:56 Speaker 4: I had a lot of followers on there. But I also,

29:59 Speaker 4: as you can tell me thoughts on a I am

30:01 Speaker 4: sort of in a place where I'm sort of trying

30:02 Speaker 4: to figure out what it all means.

30:04 Speaker 3: Man. Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out what where

30:07 Speaker 3: to go next.

30:08 Speaker 4: And I think i'd like to maybe start building on YouTube,

30:11 Speaker 4: you know, especially when I do this new thing. I

30:12 Speaker 4: was saying, I'm going to go to the Southwest and

30:14 Speaker 4: do a channel Paul McCartney's RAMI hangout on a farm

30:18 Speaker 4: and make music on YouTube.

30:21 Speaker 3: Yeah. I think I pall on YouTube and film a

30:22 Speaker 3: lot of stuff.

30:25 Speaker 4: So you could subscribe on YouTube or That'll probably be

30:28 Speaker 4: the one for now, and then at some point they'll

30:29 Speaker 4: be there'll be more socials when I'm here with the

30:33 Speaker 4: next project.

30:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, out outstanding, outstanding. All right, well, Paul Nazoli, No

30:39 Speaker 1: that's not right, is it?

30:40 Speaker 3: Ill man?

30:42 Speaker 2: How do I say it?

30:44 Speaker 3: Nas?

30:44 Speaker 2: Nas nas?

30:46 Speaker 1: Okay, thank you, and I'm sorry for butchering your name.

30:48 Speaker 1: I'm in America.

30:49 Speaker 3: I don't worry. We don't mostly in Liverpool. I understand

30:55 Speaker 3: it used to be.

30:59 Speaker 2: Well, Paul, thank you so much for joining us. This

31:01 Speaker 2: has been wonderful. We will definitely have to do that

31:02 Speaker 2: on Absolutely, we'll have to do this again in the future.

31:05 Speaker 1: And yeah, we're gonna we're gonna play both of those

31:07 Speaker 1: tracks from the self titled album.

31:10 Speaker 2: Very very very cool.

31:11 Speaker 1: I listened to the whole thing and I love it

31:12 Speaker 1: so great great, absolutely, so we'll hit those tracks. We'll

31:17 Speaker 1: let you go for now, Paul, thank you so much,

31:19 Speaker 1: and we'll talk again soon.

31:20 Speaker 2: I'm sure.

31:20 Speaker 3: All right, thanks a lot.

31:22 Speaker 1: You got it YouTube, bye bye, all right, wonderful. So

31:25 Speaker 1: we're gonna play We're gonna go ahead and play both

31:27 Speaker 1: of these. By the way, if you are listening live,

31:29 Speaker 1: stick around if you are listening on Saturday, because in

31:32 Speaker 1: the third hour, gen X is gonna be joining us

31:34 Speaker 1: from the band generations and really looking forward to talking

31:37 Speaker 1: with her.

31:38 Speaker 2: But yeah, we'll play.

31:39 Speaker 1: Uh, we'll play both of these. Let's do this one first.

31:42 Speaker 1: This is called Why Go Home.