Chance the Rapper vs. Pat the Manager | Matt Connarton Unleashed

0:00 Speaker 1: But this is from Digitalmusicnews dot com and I did

0:04 Speaker 1: not know that this was going on, but apparently it's

0:07 Speaker 1: been going on for a while. It says here Marathon

0:11 Speaker 1: Chants the Rapper versus Pat the Manager. Dispute officially heads

0:16 Speaker 1: to trial. Pat says he personally lost three hundred and

0:20 Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars plus running Chance the Rappers merch operation.

0:27 Speaker 1: And it's funny too, because we were talking.

0:29 Speaker 2: Earlier about how artists make their money.

0:32 Speaker 1: How artists make their money on merch because touring, you know,

0:35 Speaker 1: most of that money goes to you know, Live Nation

0:37 Speaker 1: and whomever else. Right, they suck all that.

0:41 Speaker 3: Outtah and put all the diesel in the trucks, which

0:44 Speaker 3: is probably really expensive these days.

0:46 Speaker 1: Touring is very cost prohibital. Oh seriously, in many ways,

0:49 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of artists ells, buses, TEP

0:52 Speaker 1: a lot to it.

0:53 Speaker 2: You got to feed everybody.

0:54 Speaker 1: It's all very hard. So yeah, you got to make

0:56 Speaker 1: that money on merch T shirts and you know T

0:58 Speaker 1: shirts of course the number one itam at shows. But

1:03 Speaker 1: apparently something has gone wrong between Chance the Rapper and

1:06 Speaker 1: Pat the now ex manager. So it says here again,

1:09 Speaker 1: this is from Digital musicnews dot Com, which, again, as

1:11 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, a great website for music industry news

1:14 Speaker 1: if you're interested in this. The USA versus Live Nation

1:18 Speaker 1: antitrust trial isn't the only music music world legal battle

1:22 Speaker 1: that's unfolding now. Chance the Rapper and Pat the manager

1:27 Speaker 1: or ex manager have taken their long running contract dispute

1:30 Speaker 1: to the courtroom. It says here we've been covering the

1:33 Speaker 1: ugly clash of former friends and business partners. Chance was

1:38 Speaker 1: like a brother to me in manager Pat Cochrane's Pat

1:43 Speaker 1: Corkran's own words, for over half a decade, but the showdown,

1:48 Speaker 1: technically consisting of a multimillion dollar commission complaint from Corkoran

1:53 Speaker 1: and a distinct unjust enrichment action from Chance, just recently

1:59 Speaker 1: headed to trial in Chicago. Unsurprisingly, then, Corkoran, during a

2:05 Speaker 1: lengthy direct examination, discussed more than a few components of

2:09 Speaker 1: his and Chances professional relationship. With the benefit of hindsight

2:13 Speaker 1: and objectivity, we can see the association, though fruitful at

2:17 Speaker 1: the outset, was seemingly destined to deteriorate in any event,

2:23 Speaker 1: It says, as Corcoran explained on the stand, it was

2:26 Speaker 1: his parents and members of Chances family, not the grown,

2:29 Speaker 1: albeit young and inexperienced men behind the deal who'd initially

2:34 Speaker 1: sorted the loosely defined details of the manager client arrangement.

2:39 Speaker 1: Now right off the bat, before we go any further,

2:43 Speaker 1: when you see loosely defined details of a manager client arrangement,

2:49 Speaker 1: that you know there's going to be trouble because everything

2:52 Speaker 1: has to be very clear and specific and written out,

2:56 Speaker 1: and entertainment lawyers beauty talk about you've heard who oh well, sure, yes.

3:04 Speaker 2: Not in the contract. It's not there.

3:06 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, it says here. Thrust into commercial

3:09 Speaker 1: prominence following the release of Acid Rap, Chance opened for

3:14 Speaker 1: high profile acts, including mac Miller, all while Corkran assumed

3:19 Speaker 1: sweeping responsibilities and struggled to personally cover day to day expenses,

3:24 Speaker 1: the manager said before the jury. Concerningly, Corkran also described

3:30 Speaker 1: Chance's alleged unwillingness to sign agreements of any kind. Quote

3:34 Speaker 1: he didn't want to sign or have you know, a

3:37 Speaker 1: written agreement with anybody unquote, and reiterated that the artist's

3:41 Speaker 1: music wasn't being monetized whatsoever. Quote. There wasn't even music

3:48 Speaker 1: being commercialized unquote, even as he was performing on the

3:51 Speaker 1: same stage as Macklemore and others. So that's a pretty

3:56 Speaker 1: shoddy business here. The chance the rapper business is not

4:01 Speaker 1: not so much. And uh, you know why Corkoran would

4:04 Speaker 1: want anything to do with anybody who doesn't even want

4:07 Speaker 1: to sign anything. A written agreement of any kind is

4:10 Speaker 1: bizarre and not.

4:11 Speaker 2: Smart by any stretch of the imagination.

4:14 Speaker 3: I don't care if you're best of friends, bosom buddies

4:16 Speaker 3: that grew up ever since you were in diapies together

4:19 Speaker 3: from being little. Put it in writing. Put it in

4:21 Speaker 3: a contract. Make it clear, Yes, what's your expectation, what

4:25 Speaker 3: you're gonna do, what you're gonna get. If it's not there,

4:29 Speaker 3: it doesn't exist. I don't care you shake a hand

4:32 Speaker 3: on it. I don't care whatever that is that's not

4:35 Speaker 3: gonna hold up when the when it comes down to it,

4:38 Speaker 3: this money involved friends are no friends, married or not married.

4:42 Speaker 3: Put it in writing because it's just better for both

4:45 Speaker 3: of you. There's no question of expectations. It's clear, they're defined,

4:50 Speaker 3: and if somebody doesn't kept it, keep up their end.

4:52 Speaker 2: You have a way of recourse and you're not just

4:56 Speaker 2: out of everything. And especially you know, bands.

5:00 Speaker 3: Sometimes I think can fall victim of things like this,

5:02 Speaker 3: because you have somebody that gets excited about your music

5:04 Speaker 3: and they want they want to quote unquote help you,

5:08 Speaker 3: and it sounds great up front, but they actually don't

5:12 Speaker 3: have the wherewithal to bring it to fruition to make

5:16 Speaker 3: it real for you, and then you're in this nasty,

5:18 Speaker 3: horrible situation. You better off always putting everything in writing

5:22 Speaker 3: and making it clear.

5:23 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, absolutely Again, this is from Digital Musicnews dot Com.

5:28 Speaker 1: It says on the label side, the alleged aversion to

5:32 Speaker 1: signed and sealed contracts has not changed. Chance self released

5:36 Speaker 1: last year's star Line that was apparently that's his newest album.

5:41 Speaker 1: Building on this overview, Corcoran proceeded to explore how he'd

5:45 Speaker 1: stepped well outside the confines of traditional managerial duties to

5:49 Speaker 1: develop a hands on merch operation and later a radio

5:54 Speaker 1: promotion strategy, and between manufacturing the actual merch renting warehouse space,

5:58 Speaker 1: expanding the team on mid and influx of orders, and more,

6:02 Speaker 1: he was quote losing his shirt on running the merchandise

6:06 Speaker 1: operation unquote as it was hemorrhaging money. Fans placed nearly

6:11 Speaker 1: ten thousand orders in the month after Chance in twenty

6:15 Speaker 1: seventeen took home a trio of Grammys.

6:18 Speaker 2: Per Corkoran, you try to do too much for one person,

6:22 Speaker 2: is this problem?

6:23 Speaker 1: Yeah, that happens.

6:24 Speaker 3: And you try to do that because you think you're

6:26 Speaker 3: gonna save money, and you don't because it's just not

6:28 Speaker 3: possible to keep up.

6:30 Speaker 1: And you try to do that because you think it's

6:31 Speaker 1: all gonna pay off, right, because here you've got, you know.

6:34 Speaker 2: Like running a radio campaign. That's a lot of work,

6:37 Speaker 2: it is, that's not I would know, Yeah, you would know.

6:40 Speaker 1: I watch you do it a lot.

6:41 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot of work and a lot of

6:43 Speaker 2: follow up and a.

6:44 Speaker 3: Lot of Right, there's a lot to it just doing that,

6:48 Speaker 3: plus he's trying to set the venues. Plus he's trying

6:51 Speaker 3: to make the t shirts and who's printing them and

6:53 Speaker 3: where's the design coming from.

6:55 Speaker 2: That's too much. That's crazy to try and do that

6:57 Speaker 2: all in one.

6:58 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you're better off Pirre and the pros

7:01 Speaker 3: to do what you need him to do and then

7:02 Speaker 3: bringing it in.

7:02 Speaker 2: You're going to spend less money in the long run.

7:04 Speaker 1: Right, Right.

7:06 Speaker 3: It sounds to me like they set them they set

7:08 Speaker 3: themselves up for failure.

7:11 Speaker 1: Corkoran said, quote, I think it was like three hundred

7:13 Speaker 1: and fifty four thousand dollars was the loss that I

7:17 Speaker 1: took on operating the Chance Merchandise operation unquote needless to say,

7:24 Speaker 1: revenue sharing agreement or not, this alleged loss wouldn't prove

7:29 Speaker 1: an encouraging sign for any business partnership. Speaking of that

7:33 Speaker 1: revenue sharing agreement, Corkoran also spoke of his commission fifteen

7:37 Speaker 1: percent of across the board net earnings with a three

7:40 Speaker 1: year sunset clause in his recollection for serving as Chances manager, which,

7:46 Speaker 1: as with the rest of his testimony, will certainly factor

7:49 Speaker 1: in to the remainder of the trial.

7:52 Speaker 3: Well, not a very good manager if he's going to

7:54 Speaker 3: try and wear a zillion different hats and expect that's

7:58 Speaker 3: going to work.

7:59 Speaker 1: I don't understand though, Oh this agreement with a three

8:05 Speaker 1: year sunset clause? What so? Was that a verbal agreement?

8:10 Speaker 1: Because Chance wouldn't sign anything, right.

8:13 Speaker 3: Unless he signed something. But it was so vaguely written

8:15 Speaker 3: that maybe it sounds like it was just well it

8:20 Speaker 3: was a good business sense, because these aren't.

8:23 Speaker 2: Good business mess Everything in vague.

8:26 Speaker 3: Discriminating, Like, how do you even enforce this contract? If

8:29 Speaker 3: everything's well? I think I'll do this. Yeah, they set

8:33 Speaker 3: each other up for failure. They really didn't, and they

8:36 Speaker 3: backed obviously backed each other on what they thought they

8:38 Speaker 3: were going to do. He fell short and couldn't handle

8:41 Speaker 3: to do in the work of five different people.

8:43 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, that's what he's trying to do.

8:46 Speaker 1: It's a mess.

8:47 Speaker 2: It is a big mess.

8:48 Speaker 3: And I can't see that either one of them are

8:50 Speaker 3: really going to come out winners in this.

8:51 Speaker 2: It sounds to me like everybody's.

8:53 Speaker 1: Going to come out at a lot.

8:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, they're probably both going to be lucky

8:56 Speaker 3: to walk away with anything in their bank accounts by

8:59 Speaker 3: the time this is done. But he did it to himself.

9:02 Speaker 3: I mean what manager does all? Like, really, do managers

9:05 Speaker 3: really put all that up front?

9:07 Speaker 2: No, like they're.

9:08 Speaker 3: Gonna take all the money out of their own bank account.

9:10 Speaker 3: They buy the T shirts themselves, they do all of that.

9:13 Speaker 2: But I've not heard of that.

9:14 Speaker 1: That's like nuts, that.

9:16 Speaker 2: Doesn't sound smart.

9:18 Speaker 3: Like I know that management companies might invest in in

9:22 Speaker 3: like an album or something like that, but I've never

9:25 Speaker 3: heard him to do everything like this.

9:27 Speaker 1: These people both sounds crazy, Like chance the rapper won't

9:30 Speaker 1: sign it is a Grammy.

9:32 Speaker 3: When they made this agreement, was this like something in

9:35 Speaker 3: the middle of the night.

9:36 Speaker 1: Thing that maybe they're both severely mentally ill. I mean,

9:39 Speaker 1: Chance the rapper sounds like he's got some kind of

9:41 Speaker 1: well he sounds Chance sounds like he's crazy. This is

9:44 Speaker 1: a Grammy winning artist, and he won't sign a contract

9:47 Speaker 1: with anybody. He won't.

9:48 Speaker 2: He's eccentric, not crazy. Money.

9:50 Speaker 3: Remember when you don't have money, then you become crazy.

9:53 Speaker 3: When you have money, you're eccentric.

9:56 Speaker 1: But he doesn't have any money, that's the thing. He's

9:57 Speaker 1: got nothing to show for it.

9:59 Speaker 2: He spent it all trying to do that.

10:01 Speaker 1: I mean, what, well, no, is it sounds like Pat

10:03 Speaker 1: the manager spent all the money. He spent his own money. Chance,

10:08 Speaker 1: but what money did he get? This probably doesn't have

10:10 Speaker 1: any money either. He can't sign a.

10:12 Speaker 3: Martelling because it's not being done right. Then, yeah, he's

10:15 Speaker 3: not making anything.

10:15 Speaker 1: Nothing's being monetized correctly. Apparently.

10:18 Speaker 3: No, they're spending money. They're basically throwing money out the

10:20 Speaker 3: windows here and there, and that.

10:23 Speaker 1: They just sounds like, I like they're both idiots or

10:27 Speaker 1: they're nuts or something.

10:29 Speaker 2: I don't know.

10:29 Speaker 1: These are not These are not uh, these are not

10:32 Speaker 1: smart moves. These are not well adjusted humans.

10:34 Speaker 3: So the question is are they going to come out

10:36 Speaker 3: of this with their shirts or are they going to

10:38 Speaker 3: lose everything?

10:39 Speaker 1: Well sounds like Pat's already lost everything. He's three hundred

10:42 Speaker 1: and fifty four thousand dollars in the hole.

10:45 Speaker 2: Interesting to see how this battle goes, though.

10:48 Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't know about any of this until this morning,

10:50 Speaker 1: but this is very interesting.

10:52 Speaker 3: Right, and I want to know, like how much I

10:54 Speaker 3: want to see more? Like what else did they have evidence? Rise?

10:58 Speaker 2: You know, who's going to win? Is someone going to

11:02 Speaker 2: end up paying somebody else?

11:03 Speaker 1: Probably don't have that much evidence wise, if nothing was

11:05 Speaker 1: written down because Chance won't sign a contract with anybody, well.

11:09 Speaker 3: Maybe not, because then if the manager's gonna have receipts

11:12 Speaker 3: like I bought Chance the Wrapper Tree shirts, or I

11:14 Speaker 3: bought Chance the Rapper bandanas, or you know, we pressed

11:18 Speaker 3: X number of CDs. You know, if he's doing all

11:22 Speaker 3: of that up front, he's gonna have receipts for everything

11:24 Speaker 3: he put up front. But if he doesn't have a

11:27 Speaker 3: contract that says he gets reimbursed and he's expecting to

11:31 Speaker 3: just simply sell everything.

11:32 Speaker 2: To make him money somehow crazy? Yeah, that this is

11:36 Speaker 2: not the way. Do not do as these people have done.

11:41 Speaker 1: A cautionary tale, although I don't think most people would.

11:44 Speaker 1: I mean, this is just nuts.

11:45 Speaker 2: No, you would think in this day and age that

11:47 Speaker 2: people would be.

11:48 Speaker 1: That's why I think they're both mentally ill.

11:50 Speaker 3: Smarter to put everything down and writing of what you're

11:53 Speaker 3: going to expect, Yeah, you know, but in doing so

11:59 Speaker 3: in detail, not just vague statements of we're gonna do merch.

12:03 Speaker 3: That's too vague. It's gonna be we're gonna do two

12:06 Speaker 3: hundred T shirts, or we're gonna do you know, five

12:09 Speaker 3: thousand CDs, whatever it is. It's got to be specific

12:12 Speaker 3: and spelled out, or you don't get a lay to

12:14 Speaker 3: stand on. Yeah, you know, if you're expecting this person

12:17 Speaker 3: to do all of this for you while you don't look,

12:21 Speaker 3: which isn't smart. But if you don't want to look

12:23 Speaker 3: and you just expect this person, he's gonna book all

12:25 Speaker 3: your stuff, he's gonna do the photography, he's gonna get

12:28 Speaker 3: the CD pressed, he's gonna do all you merch. He's

12:30 Speaker 3: gonna do everything humanly possible except for spoon feed you.

12:36 Speaker 3: And you don't want to pay attention to that, you're

12:37 Speaker 3: kind of setting yourself up there that when you do

12:40 Speaker 3: turn around and go, oh, no, I have no money.

12:43 Speaker 2: You know why?

12:44 Speaker 1: I just I still think they're both non composition.

12:46 Speaker 3: I feel like they were maybe I don't know where

12:49 Speaker 3: they inebriated when they made this agreement, because especially anything

12:52 Speaker 3: verbal in this day and age, you would think people

12:55 Speaker 3: would know better than to do anything as a verbal contract. Right,

12:59 Speaker 3: Like I said, I don't care if you've been bestie

13:01 Speaker 3: friends since you were both little teeny babies and Diape

13:04 Speaker 3: is running around looking for the you know how to

13:07 Speaker 3: stand up and walk street. I don't care how long

13:10 Speaker 3: you've known each other. You've put it in writing, spell

13:13 Speaker 3: it out. It's just better for both of you. There's

13:15 Speaker 3: no question you're both on firm foundation and you know

13:18 Speaker 3: what your job is.

13:19 Speaker 2: You know what their job is.

13:20 Speaker 3: And what the expectations are going to be for the

13:23 Speaker 3: end of the project. You know, it's just smart five minutes,

13:28 Speaker 3: even if you write it out on a piece of

13:29 Speaker 3: paper and sign it, it's better than any than nothing.

13:34 Speaker 2: You'd better to have a lawyer, but.

13:36 Speaker 3: You know in the pitch at least do that do

13:39 Speaker 3: that so much?

13:40 Speaker 1: All right?

13:41 Speaker 3: Well, I would think you would know better, Like you're

13:43 Speaker 3: that big of a guy, and like, what about this manager?

13:46 Speaker 3: How many artists has he managed? Does he do this

13:49 Speaker 3: with other artists? Is this the only manager? Like where

13:51 Speaker 3: is he in the management scheme of the world, right,