CJ Wildheart | Matt Connarton Unleashed

0:00 Speaker 1: All right, what a relief crisis averted. I think let

0:04 Speaker 1: me bring this up here. I think we've got c

0:06 Speaker 1: J Wildheart with us via Microsoft Team.

0:08 Speaker 2: CJ. Are you there, I am, yes, and I can

0:11 Speaker 2: hear you, mate.

0:12 Speaker 1: Oh wonderful, wonderful. Thank you for your flexibility. We are

0:15 Speaker 1: live on the air, and I'm really glad to get

0:17 Speaker 1: John because I've been dying to talk to you, and

0:20 Speaker 1: we you know, you are here to experience a first

0:23 Speaker 1: here on Matt Connorton on Leafs and I've never had

0:25 Speaker 1: WhatsApp crash on me like that. And then apparently WhatsApp

0:29 Speaker 1: has restricted my account. They are accusing me of spam,

0:33 Speaker 1: which is very very strange. So thank you for being

0:35 Speaker 1: flexible and welcome to the show.

0:38 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. It's probably my fault you've

0:41 Speaker 2: been banned from WhatsApp.

0:43 Speaker 1: You're going to take the blame for that. Well, that's

0:45 Speaker 1: very generous of you. Thank you.

0:47 Speaker 2: My reputation for seed it does.

0:51 Speaker 1: That's funny. Well listen, so welcome to the show. I

0:54 Speaker 1: love that song, you know, we did open with the

0:56 Speaker 1: single One of the Boys, such a great track. And

1:00 Speaker 1: but you you've been at this for a while, and

1:03 Speaker 1: of course you've got the new album Devil or how long?

1:05 Speaker 1: How is now new is Devil? At this point I

1:08 Speaker 1: should say how long has this been out? This is

1:09 Speaker 1: pretty news?

1:11 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the official release was yesterday. Oh wow.

1:18 Speaker 2: I run my online store so I do pre orders.

1:21 Speaker 2: So most people who bought it on vinyl, which is

1:24 Speaker 2: sold that now and CDs have received you know, they

1:28 Speaker 2: received their vinyl and CDs a week or so before

1:31 Speaker 2: the album officially came out. But we ran into a

1:34 Speaker 2: glitch yesterday, so it isn't up on all the usual

1:37 Speaker 2: streaming sites at the moment, so oh okay, that out.

1:42 Speaker 2: It's just up on bank camp digitally. But you know,

1:46 Speaker 2: it's it's the way of the soul trader, the entrepreneurial

1:52 Speaker 2: punk rock musician these days. You know, you get your

1:55 Speaker 2: music out there by any means possible.

1:58 Speaker 1: Exactly absolutely. And Camp by the way, you know, this

2:01 Speaker 1: comes up a lot on the show. Band Camp is

2:03 Speaker 1: such a great site because it's very artist friendly, as

2:05 Speaker 1: you know, and also too, when you get your music

2:08 Speaker 1: from band camp, you get the highest quality file that

2:11 Speaker 1: you can get. It's it's not like you know, just

2:13 Speaker 1: streaming it from YouTube or whatnot, which is fine, but

2:16 Speaker 1: band Camp really does you write, you know, in terms

2:18 Speaker 1: of the quality of the file that you're getting when

2:20 Speaker 1: you buy your music on band Camp, and of course,

2:22 Speaker 1: like I said, very artist friendly. So so that's excellent

2:25 Speaker 1: that you're you know, that you've got it up on there.

2:28 Speaker 1: Can can you talk about you know, because you you

2:31 Speaker 1: mentioned you kind of alluded to some of the challenges

2:34 Speaker 1: obviously that that can happen to an independent artist. And

2:39 Speaker 1: I was reading something about how this album nearly didn't

2:42 Speaker 1: happen because you were kind of struggling to sort of

2:47 Speaker 1: figure out how to how to navigate through the current

2:50 Speaker 1: industry and some of the challenges that come with it.

2:53 Speaker 1: Is that true?

2:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean a lot of it. I'll be honest

2:56 Speaker 2: with you. I mean I've been I'm fifty eight now,

2:59 Speaker 2: and i've been you know, I signed my first record

3:02 Speaker 2: deal when I was eighteen, so that's like, you know,

3:04 Speaker 2: forty years ago, and you know, I'm Generation X and

3:08 Speaker 2: I've gone through the whole change from analog to digital,

3:12 Speaker 2: and so much has changed in the music industry. But

3:15 Speaker 2: you know, my time was the nineties. That was my

3:17 Speaker 2: time when I had a huge record deals with massive

3:19 Speaker 2: corporations and if I hadn't had those big record deals,

3:22 Speaker 2: I wouldn't be talking to you today, you know, because

3:25 Speaker 2: I sell predominantly to a fan base that was started

3:30 Speaker 2: in the nineties, they eighties, And the problem with my

3:34 Speaker 2: fan base is they're getting older, a lot of them

3:36 Speaker 2: are dying off, a lot of them don't buy physical

3:38 Speaker 2: music anymore. And I make a living from selling physical music,

3:42 Speaker 2: not digital music. Cee these vinyl T shirts. And when

3:48 Speaker 2: your fan base is getting smaller, you start making less

3:54 Speaker 2: and less money, and so it gets harder each year

3:56 Speaker 2: to you know, call this a job, call it a living,

3:59 Speaker 2: but it's all I've done all my life, you know,

4:02 Speaker 2: I haven't. You know, I've never ran a day job

4:05 Speaker 2: alongside the music. Music has always been my day job.

4:08 Speaker 2: And on this album, I kind of knew how much

4:11 Speaker 2: I was going to sell, and I knew it was

4:12 Speaker 2: going to take me about six months to make I

4:15 Speaker 2: record mostly on my own, and I was thinking, why

4:18 Speaker 2: am I doing this? I would probably earn more money

4:20 Speaker 2: put in the fries in the bag.

4:22 Speaker 1: You know what I mean, understood? It is? It is challenging,

4:26 Speaker 1: and obviously, you know you've been around long enough that

4:28 Speaker 1: you've seen all of the changes in the music industry

4:30 Speaker 1: over the years. And it is true too. You know,

4:33 Speaker 1: you make money on merch and things like that and

4:35 Speaker 1: physical media, but in terms of what you're putting out digitally.

4:40 Speaker 1: You know, obviously we talked about it on the show

4:42 Speaker 1: a lot. Spotify doesn't pay very much. It's it's hard,

4:46 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's hard to make a living. A

4:48 Speaker 1: lot of people don't realize that, you know. They think

4:49 Speaker 1: that if you're a musician and you're active, that you're

4:52 Speaker 1: in a mansion and you're driving a sports car and

4:55 Speaker 1: you know, you're flying a private jet everywhere, and it's, uh,

4:57 Speaker 1: it's not how it works.

5:00 Speaker 2: I mean, I'll be really honest with you. I had

5:02 Speaker 2: to sell the mansion in the private jet. I traveled

5:05 Speaker 2: most places by hot air balloon. Now the wed role

5:09 Speaker 2: in England had to get rid of the carton as well.

5:12 Speaker 2: You know, sure, times are.

5:14 Speaker 1: Hard times, absolutely absolutely, And this is Your Devil is

5:18 Speaker 1: your eighth solo album. Is that right?

5:20 Speaker 2: It is? I mean it's my eighth studio solo studio album.

5:24 Speaker 2: I have a I put out a live album as well,

5:27 Speaker 2: and I had a best of album where I re

5:29 Speaker 2: recorded fifteen of the old tracks as well. So on

5:33 Speaker 2: my label it's album number ten, and I have two

5:37 Speaker 2: unofficial demo albums as well, so technically it's album number twelve.

5:42 Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, okay, you've been busy now. Originally, so

5:47 Speaker 1: when when you first when you first signed your wow

5:50 Speaker 1: eighteen right, So was that with the Wildhearts when you

5:54 Speaker 1: signed your first deal?

5:56 Speaker 2: No?

5:56 Speaker 1: No.

5:56 Speaker 2: I used to have like a glam sleazy band called

5:59 Speaker 2: the Tattooed Love Boys in the eighties and it was

6:02 Speaker 2: the band that kind of got me into London and

6:05 Speaker 2: got me on the London scene. And we were signed

6:07 Speaker 2: to a subsidiary of RCA and I made an album

6:12 Speaker 2: with them. But I was gigging heavily with that band

6:16 Speaker 2: in the late eighties around you know, in the UK

6:20 Speaker 2: rock scene. And it's how me and Ginger met. I

6:24 Speaker 2: was playing a club in London and a mutual friend

6:27 Speaker 2: of ours Boredom along and you know, from that initial

6:31 Speaker 2: meeting we said, yeah, let's form a band together. And

6:33 Speaker 2: that band was a Wild Arts.

6:34 Speaker 1: Oh okay, gotcha, gotcha. So with the original deal with RCA,

6:39 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, what was your output on that deal

6:44 Speaker 1: with the first band that you had? I mean, was

6:45 Speaker 1: that because sometimes and This is another thing that people

6:49 Speaker 1: outside the industry don't realize. Just because you signed with

6:51 Speaker 1: the label doesn't mean that the label is necessarily going

6:54 Speaker 1: to actually release your music and that you're going to

6:55 Speaker 1: you know, immediately have a lot of success and whatnot.

6:57 Speaker 1: I mean, what was that experience like with that first deal?

7:01 Speaker 2: Was it was good? I mean the album came out

7:02 Speaker 2: in the States, but we never made it over to America.

7:06 Speaker 2: And I mean, to be honest with you, from the

7:09 Speaker 2: ages of about say eleven until I was twenty, I

7:14 Speaker 2: went through various scenes very quickly. So I went from

7:18 Speaker 2: being into heavy metal to being into sleeves well to

7:22 Speaker 2: be in the fresh metal, and I was into sleeves

7:24 Speaker 2: for a couple of months, and ultimately I landed in punk.

7:28 Speaker 2: You know, punk is where I've always stayed. But it

7:31 Speaker 2: was a real learning curve those formative teenage years and

7:35 Speaker 2: just finding where I felt comfortable because I've loved I

7:38 Speaker 2: love all sorts of music, and especially guitar music, and

7:42 Speaker 2: you know, I had to go through I had to

7:44 Speaker 2: be in like a kind of glammy sleeveze band to

7:47 Speaker 2: get to the clash place where I feel most comfortable.

7:51 Speaker 1: Right now, that makes sense, do you. I mean, ideally,

7:56 Speaker 1: you've released so many albums as a solo artist. I

7:58 Speaker 1: assume that's what you're preferences at this point, like have

8:02 Speaker 1: you thought about have you thought about starting another band

8:05 Speaker 1: or joining a band? Or are you is this kind

8:07 Speaker 1: of the trajectory that you intend to stay on in

8:09 Speaker 1: terms of having a solo career.

8:12 Speaker 2: No, I mean it's purely survival. So I run my

8:15 Speaker 2: own label and everything I release as a solo artist

8:18 Speaker 2: comes out of my own own label. But you won't

8:20 Speaker 2: get it in the shop. You have to buy it

8:21 Speaker 2: from my online shop and or you buy it from

8:24 Speaker 2: a streaming site digitally that I record the albums. I

8:29 Speaker 2: do everything in house. I even you know, this week,

8:32 Speaker 2: I've sent out about a thousand albums and I've packaged

8:35 Speaker 2: them all myself.

8:36 Speaker 1: Wow.

8:37 Speaker 2: So it's like a real cottage industry, and that's how

8:41 Speaker 2: I make a living my albums. I have my own home,

8:44 Speaker 2: little studio home set up, and I record most of

8:47 Speaker 2: my albums on my own in my house, so I'm

8:51 Speaker 2: not paying for studio time. Once I've recorded these albums,

8:55 Speaker 2: I use a program drums, I go to a proper

8:57 Speaker 2: studio and work with a producer and I've used Jason

9:00 Speaker 2: Bold from Bullet from My Valentine Oh for my last albums.

9:04 Speaker 2: He's played drums on my last eight solo albums.

9:07 Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, okay, excellent. But yeah, so you sorry?

9:12 Speaker 1: Oh no, go ahead, go ahead, CJ.

9:15 Speaker 2: So the way I survive is by doing d I Y.

9:19 Speaker 2: You know, it's doing it yourself. But if the food

9:21 Speaker 2: Fight has called me, it said come on board, CJ,

9:24 Speaker 2: you wouldn't You wouldn't be hearing many solo albums.

9:29 Speaker 1: Right, that makes sense? Did uh? Did you always kind

9:33 Speaker 1: of have it in the back of your mind that

9:35 Speaker 1: that you were going to do this d I Y

9:37 Speaker 1: as as you are today because you mentioned it's kind

9:41 Speaker 1: of it's survival. But there's also something I would think

9:45 Speaker 1: very satisfying, right about having the level of control that

9:49 Speaker 1: you have over everything that you're doing, by having your

9:52 Speaker 1: own label and by doing this all yourself. I would

9:55 Speaker 1: imagine there's there's a certain gratification that comes with that.

9:58 Speaker 1: Or maybe not. Maybe some days, maybe sometimes you have

10:00 Speaker 1: days where you go, I really could use some help here.

10:06 Speaker 2: I feel so freed. The way I work, there's no

10:11 Speaker 2: one telling me what to do, have the sound, how

10:13 Speaker 2: to look it's like going shopping in the mood. You know,

10:16 Speaker 2: I can let whatever I want hang out when wherever

10:19 Speaker 2: I want to, whenever I want to, And that is

10:23 Speaker 2: really it's an amazing feeling having that much control over

10:28 Speaker 2: everything you do. But you know it comes at a cost,

10:33 Speaker 2: because yeah, I don't have a big record deal. I

10:35 Speaker 2: don't have a distribution network all over the world. I

10:38 Speaker 2: have a deal in Japan still, which is I'm really

10:41 Speaker 2: grateful for, you know, and this album has actually come

10:44 Speaker 2: out properly in Japan. You can get it in shops

10:46 Speaker 2: and but as far as the rest of the world

10:49 Speaker 2: is concerned, if you don't come to my store, you

10:52 Speaker 2: won't know who I am. You know, it'd be really

10:54 Speaker 2: hard to track me down, right, And so you know

10:58 Speaker 2: it's I am what's known as a real underground musician.

11:02 Speaker 1: You know, I'm a mold right right. Well, but you're

11:05 Speaker 1: doing it, You're making it work, and that's that's more

11:07 Speaker 1: than a lot of people can can manage to pull off.

11:11 Speaker 1: But obviously all your experience and everything and the you know,

11:13 Speaker 1: the legacy that you've built is helpful with that. And

11:16 Speaker 1: that which kind of leads me to a question about

11:18 Speaker 1: the song one of the Boys. It feels like it's

11:21 Speaker 1: it's really kind of about looking back and and can

11:23 Speaker 1: you can you tell? I love that song? And we

11:25 Speaker 1: did open with that. That was our our opening track

11:27 Speaker 1: as far as the segment goes, can you tell us

11:29 Speaker 1: about that song? And I don't know if I'm reading

11:31 Speaker 1: Sometimes I wonder if I'm reading too much into lyrics,

11:33 Speaker 1: and they really don't mean as much as whatever my

11:36 Speaker 1: brain tries to assign in terms of lyrics. But it

11:40 Speaker 1: feels like it's about looking back, looking back on success

11:43 Speaker 1: and mistakes and and all of it. Am I am

11:45 Speaker 1: I on the right track with that?

11:49 Speaker 2: It's it's the song is when I started this album,

11:52 Speaker 2: started the writing process because it wasn't. It was really

11:57 Speaker 2: hard for me to just get going because because of

12:00 Speaker 2: you know, ultimately, when you're a musician, you want you

12:02 Speaker 2: want you want some level of success. And when you

12:05 Speaker 2: know before you've written a note how many albums you're

12:08 Speaker 2: going to sell, and that it's going to be a struggle,

12:11 Speaker 2: it's hard to find the motivation. So One of the

12:13 Speaker 2: Boys was written from the perspective of an older musician

12:17 Speaker 2: coming to the end of his career, maybe saying goodbye

12:20 Speaker 2: yeah and then just looking back and saying like, you know,

12:23 Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what you've done, what mistakes you've made,

12:26 Speaker 2: you know how many big shows, small shows, how many

12:28 Speaker 2: tours you've done. When you look at yourself, you're just

12:32 Speaker 2: one of the boys, one of the lads. You know,

12:34 Speaker 2: you're no more no lets you know, your ego, the

12:37 Speaker 2: size of your car or how small your car is,

12:39 Speaker 2: our bigger houses, how smaller houses. It doesn't matter, right

12:42 Speaker 2: you stripped that way. You're just blood, guts and.

12:46 Speaker 1: Bones, right right. Absolutely, So I'm curious about this. Is

12:52 Speaker 1: this true that you're you're nineteen eighty nine Gibson BB

12:54 Speaker 1: King Lucille guitar is featured in the Punk exhibition at

12:59 Speaker 1: the Gibson in London? Is that true? It was?

13:03 Speaker 2: Yeah, So Gibson contacted me and said, we're celebrating fifty

13:07 Speaker 2: years of punk and we really want to have like

13:11 Speaker 2: Lucy my guitar and there, and I was like really,

13:14 Speaker 2: you know, and I was like really flattered, and yeah,

13:17 Speaker 2: the guitar is so well known and people know you

13:20 Speaker 2: CEJ from the Wildhearts and all your other bands and

13:23 Speaker 2: know you know, you're a lot of your solo stuff

13:26 Speaker 2: is very very punk and it's going to be up

13:29 Speaker 2: there with Captain Sensible's guitar. And then they said Mick

13:32 Speaker 2: Jones and I was like, yeah, you can take her,

13:35 Speaker 2: take her, do whatever you want with her. And she

13:37 Speaker 2: was down in London for about a month and it

13:40 Speaker 2: was at the Gibson Garage down in Oxford Street and

13:43 Speaker 2: a lot of people saw it, and Gibson gave me

13:47 Speaker 2: an update and they said a lot of people made

13:49 Speaker 2: a beeline to her because she's such a unique looking,

13:53 Speaker 2: you know, Gibson guitar and they just said, you know,

13:56 Speaker 2: it's such a cool guitar, and yeah, I was really honored.

14:00 Speaker 2: My guitar is actually better known than me, which is brilliant.

14:04 Speaker 1: That's that is wild. Oh that that is so cool.

14:08 Speaker 1: That is so cool. Uh So what's kind of your

14:12 Speaker 1: forward trajectory? And maybe you don't know yet? Obviously the

14:15 Speaker 1: the album literally just came out right devil? So do

14:19 Speaker 1: you know where you're going after that? Do you plan

14:22 Speaker 1: to make another solo album? And part of why I ask,

14:24 Speaker 1: is it almost I think you had said somewhere I

14:28 Speaker 1: read that you you refer to this album as a

14:29 Speaker 1: possible swan song, but which I find hard to believe.

14:32 Speaker 1: It sounds to me like you've got a lot more

14:34 Speaker 1: music in you. But but do you know what's next

14:36 Speaker 1: for you after this album?

14:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've started the follow up already. Oh good, good

14:43 Speaker 2: one isn't a fun song anymore. The follow up is

14:46 Speaker 2: called Chalk and I've started compiling the ideas and the

14:51 Speaker 2: songs for that. My artist has already done the cover

14:54 Speaker 2: for it. And yeah, so it's literally I'm not touring

14:58 Speaker 2: in the UK. I've got a Japanese tour in April.

15:02 Speaker 2: I'm looking for some support tours for next year for

15:04 Speaker 2: the UK, But for the rest of the summer and

15:08 Speaker 2: the rest of the fall, I'm heads down working on

15:10 Speaker 2: the next album.

15:12 Speaker 1: Gotcha, Gotcha very good? And is there a theme with

15:17 Speaker 1: the album? You know, we talked about the song one

15:19 Speaker 1: of the Boys, but the album Devil, I mean, is

15:21 Speaker 1: there a theme throughout the album or is it just

15:25 Speaker 1: And I did listen to the whole thing, so I

15:27 Speaker 1: didn't necessarily detect anything specific, But I'm curious from your perspective,

15:30 Speaker 1: and it's great, by the way, but I'm curious from

15:32 Speaker 1: your perspective, is there is there kind of a theme

15:35 Speaker 1: or a unifying message to the album.

15:38 Speaker 2: I mean all my albums, I write about what's going

15:41 Speaker 2: on in my life. And a lot of reviewers have

15:45 Speaker 2: picked up on the kind of there's almost like a

15:48 Speaker 2: tinge of bitterness, and there's a lot of retrospective sort

15:52 Speaker 2: of soul searching going on in this album. And they're

15:55 Speaker 2: quite right, and the bitterness is it's not bitterness, it's

15:58 Speaker 2: more frustration. Yeah, you know, forty odd years of making music,

16:03 Speaker 2: and I see myself here. Although I am in a

16:06 Speaker 2: good place emotionally and spiritually, financially it's a struggle, you know.

16:11 Speaker 2: I'm like a lot of people on this planet, struggling financially.

16:15 Speaker 2: But this album, it covers a lot. There's a lot

16:19 Speaker 2: more songs on here looking back. There's a song called

16:22 Speaker 2: SOB called Sad Old Boy, and that's me looking back

16:25 Speaker 2: at the eighties and the nineties. There's also a lot

16:28 Speaker 2: of frustration with the world at the moment. Nine ninety

16:30 Speaker 2: nine is about what's going on in this country at

16:33 Speaker 2: the moment, and it's a song called No More, which

16:35 Speaker 2: is all about the wars and life, crime and stuff

16:38 Speaker 2: was going around the world. I have a very young son,

16:40 Speaker 2: athough I'm almost sixty. My son turns twelve in August,

16:45 Speaker 2: and my constant worry is about the world he is

16:49 Speaker 2: going to inherit when he's a young adult, and I

16:52 Speaker 2: just hope it's better than the planet we're living on

16:55 Speaker 2: right now.

16:57 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's also something very relatable. I think. I think

17:00 Speaker 1: a lot of people, especially from our generation. I'm also

17:02 Speaker 1: a Gen xer, and I think a lot of our

17:04 Speaker 1: generation kind of feels that way. You know, we're we

17:08 Speaker 1: we we blame the boomers for for a lot of

17:10 Speaker 1: what we were left with, and then we worry about

17:12 Speaker 1: what I don't have any kids myself, but we worry

17:15 Speaker 1: about what the what, what the generation that that is

17:18 Speaker 1: after us is gonna deal with, and what kind of

17:20 Speaker 1: a world we're leaving for them, and and uh, you know,

17:23 Speaker 1: and that that cycle continues. But I think that's relatable.

17:25 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people feel that way so

17:30 Speaker 1: and that that might be someone of some of what

17:32 Speaker 1: really connected with me about the album. Like I said,

17:34 Speaker 1: I listened to the whole thing. I think it's great.

17:35 Speaker 1: Where does the title come from? Why did you decide

17:37 Speaker 1: to call it devil?

17:39 Speaker 2: A couple of things. I knew it was going to

17:41 Speaker 2: be like a devil of an album to make and

17:44 Speaker 2: I also have a Hot Source brand called Devil's Fit,

17:48 Speaker 2: So the artwork of the album is taken from the

17:54 Speaker 2: artwork of my Hot Source brand. So the devilhead is

17:58 Speaker 2: the logo for my my Hot Source. So it's kind

18:01 Speaker 2: of all connected. Yeah, I've had my own Hot Souce

18:04 Speaker 2: brand for about twelve years now and it's based on

18:07 Speaker 2: my mum. I've made Hot Sauce, So everything's connected. I

18:13 Speaker 2: can't I can't sing about anything or do anything that

18:16 Speaker 2: will connected to my life. It has to. I mean,

18:19 Speaker 2: there's a song on Devil called Fade right at the End,

18:22 Speaker 2: which is about my mum and dad, who both succumbed

18:26 Speaker 2: to dementia of Alzheimer's. I had to watch them fade

18:30 Speaker 2: in front of my eyes very slowly over many years,

18:34 Speaker 2: and you know, it was a really hard song to

18:36 Speaker 2: write and sing, but I needed to do something. I

18:38 Speaker 2: needed to immortalize the feeling of love and hate and

18:42 Speaker 2: guilt I felt watching both my parents slowly die in

18:45 Speaker 2: front of my eyes, and to put it into music

18:47 Speaker 2: is a really, really good way of just exercising those

18:50 Speaker 2: feelings and kind of letting them out of you. And

18:53 Speaker 2: that's what I use a lot of my music to do,

18:55 Speaker 2: especially feelings of anger and frustration. I use my songs

18:59 Speaker 2: to let those feelings out. I think it's better I

19:02 Speaker 2: put it into art, into something like that, rather than

19:05 Speaker 2: drinking them away or you know, snorting them away or

19:08 Speaker 2: fighting them away. My way of exercising the beast, the

19:12 Speaker 2: demon is through through my music. So that's why a

19:15 Speaker 2: lot of the subjects on my albums can sometimes be

19:17 Speaker 2: a little bit heavy. But if I write a love song,

19:20 Speaker 2: you know it's going to be about you know, my

19:21 Speaker 2: wife or my child.

19:23 Speaker 1: Now I'm glad to hear you say that too, because

19:25 Speaker 1: that's the subject that comes up a lot on the show.

19:27 Speaker 1: Is how you know, music is such great therapy. And

19:31 Speaker 1: if you anytime that you can take trauma or stress

19:34 Speaker 1: or things that you're worried about, whether it's something that's

19:37 Speaker 1: happened to you or something that you're worried about happening,

19:40 Speaker 1: or whatever it is, whatever's bothering you or in your case,

19:43 Speaker 1: you know, you talked about fate and what that song

19:45 Speaker 1: means witches. You know, I can only imagine what it's

19:48 Speaker 1: like to go through that. But anytime you can take

19:51 Speaker 1: something that's negative and turn it into art, then you're

19:54 Speaker 1: taking something negative and making something positive from it. And

19:58 Speaker 1: not only is that great therapy for you as the

20:00 Speaker 1: person who is creating that art, but it also might

20:03 Speaker 1: help other people who then can enjoy that art and

20:06 Speaker 1: connect with it, and maybe it helps them with what

20:08 Speaker 1: they're going through as well. So I think I think

20:11 Speaker 1: music is the best, the best therapy that you can

20:16 Speaker 1: whether it's making it or listening to it, it's it's

20:19 Speaker 1: really is the best therapy in my opinion, So and

20:23 Speaker 1: creating I agree.

20:24 Speaker 2: I agree with you, yeah, one hundred percent. There's most

20:28 Speaker 2: people are the same. It doesn't matter how you wrapped up.

20:30 Speaker 2: You know, the plumber and the same as adopted. Adopted

20:33 Speaker 2: is the same as the rock star, the rock stars,

20:35 Speaker 2: the same as the mechanic. We're all the same underneath.

20:37 Speaker 2: And it doesn't matter what what standing you have in life.

20:42 Speaker 2: You could be the billionaire, a millionaire, a plumb on

20:44 Speaker 2: the street, or you just could be a normal, everyday

20:46 Speaker 2: working class dude or woman. And we're all connected by

20:52 Speaker 2: the same stories. We all breathe the same air, people

20:55 Speaker 2: die around us, we can all fall in love, we

20:58 Speaker 2: can all lose something, win something. And if you sing

21:01 Speaker 2: about stuff that is actually happening in your life. There's

21:05 Speaker 2: a good chance that it's happening in billions of other

21:08 Speaker 2: people's lives, so there's always that connection there. So I

21:11 Speaker 2: always sing about or write songs about things that have

21:14 Speaker 2: happened to me. And I always have a lot of

21:16 Speaker 2: people come back at me, not millions, but you know

21:20 Speaker 2: enough saying that they're connected to the song because it

21:23 Speaker 2: happened to them and they understand where I'm coming from,

21:25 Speaker 2: And you know, for me, that's a really important thing.

21:29 Speaker 2: I won't sing about dragons and wizards and things I

21:32 Speaker 2: know nothing about. There's not been wrong with that, but

21:35 Speaker 2: I don't deal in fantasy. I deal in reality.

21:37 Speaker 1: Right right one, absolutely well, CJ. Wildheart, this has been wonderful.

21:42 Speaker 1: It's great to have you on the show. We'll definitely

21:44 Speaker 1: do this again in the future, especially as you're going

21:45 Speaker 1: to be releasing new music. And I do want to

21:48 Speaker 1: again thank you for you know, thank you for your

21:49 Speaker 1: flexibility in terms of what platform we use to bring

21:52 Speaker 1: you on. Technology will fail us at times. Go ahead, definitely.

21:59 Speaker 2: Can I just say this, I said it with Devil

22:01 Speaker 2: It's my last album. This next one I'm making could

22:04 Speaker 2: potentially be my last album. When you say it's your

22:07 Speaker 2: last album, people tend to buy more copies of them.

22:10 Speaker 2: So it's a really good strategy to sell more else.

22:14 Speaker 1: That is true. And it works with touring too, if

22:16 Speaker 1: you say you're going on a farewell tour, you know,

22:18 Speaker 1: and then it works. It works for a lot of

22:21 Speaker 1: It's worked for a lot of artists. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely,

22:25 Speaker 1: So we will end our conversation with another track from

22:28 Speaker 1: the album Devil. But I not to put you on

22:30 Speaker 1: the spot, but we already we played a bunch of

22:34 Speaker 1: them while I was trying to get the situation worked

22:35 Speaker 1: out with WhatsApp and and all that. So I would

22:39 Speaker 1: like you to pick what should we what should we

22:42 Speaker 1: play from the album to end the segment. It's just

22:45 Speaker 1: the only stipulation being because we're on terrestrial radio in

22:47 Speaker 1: the United States, can't have any swears in it.

22:50 Speaker 2: But the art of being free, Okay, that's what I

22:56 Speaker 2: love the decades.

22:58 Speaker 1: Oh excellent, all right, very good, So we'll we'll end

23:01 Speaker 1: with that, so again CJ Wildheart. Oh one other thing,

23:04 Speaker 1: where's the best place for people to go online to

23:06 Speaker 1: keep up with everything that you're doing and to buy

23:08 Speaker 1: the album?

23:09 Speaker 2: Yeah, so if you go to uh, it's CJ Devil

23:14 Speaker 2: Spit all one word, CJ Devil Spit.

23:18 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, I've been to the site, by the way,

23:21 Speaker 1: it's excellent, so I really like that. I'm a website nerd.

23:23 Speaker 2: So the album. A lot of my albums are sold

23:28 Speaker 2: out now, so it's a good and it's a good

23:30 Speaker 2: place to be selling out.

23:32 Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely all right, my friend c J Wildheart will

23:36 Speaker 1: let you go. We will hit that track, but we

23:38 Speaker 1: will do it again in the future. And thank you

23:40 Speaker 1: so much for joining us today. This has been wonderful.

23:43 Speaker 2: Really appreciate it. Matt, all right, you take.

23:45 Speaker 1: Care, all right, you two take care, bye bye, all right.

23:50 Speaker 1: That is CJ Wildheart. The new album with very new

23:53 Speaker 1: just came out, Devil, and let's play this track. And

23:57 Speaker 1: again I did listen to the whole thing. It's great.

23:59 Speaker 1: I suggest you check it out. Devil by CJ Wildheart.

24:02 Speaker 1: And this is called the Art of being Free.