Daniel Milligan of The Joy Thieves | Matt Connnarton Unleashed

0:00 Speaker 1: That's a banger. I love that. That is called No Anchor.

0:03 Speaker 1: The band is The Joy Thieves, and the album is

0:06 Speaker 1: called Apocalypse Pending, and we've got let me bring that

0:09 Speaker 1: up here. We've got Dan Milligan from The Joy Thieves

0:11 Speaker 1: here with us via Microsoft Teams. Hello.

0:13 Speaker 2: Dan, Hey there, great, Thanks so much for having me.

0:16 Speaker 1: I appreciate it absolutely. I'm really excited to talk to

0:18 Speaker 1: you because I love that track. I love everything. Of

0:21 Speaker 1: course you sent us the whole album. I was into

0:24 Speaker 1: the whole thing. It's really really good and I love

0:27 Speaker 1: the project. But I almost don't know how to describe it.

0:29 Speaker 1: It's like it's a supergroup, but it's really more like

0:32 Speaker 1: a super collective, right, because you've got a lot of

0:34 Speaker 1: people involved in this, but they're all come with some

0:37 Speaker 1: pretty impressive resumes.

0:40 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, as of now, we've been going for

0:42 Speaker 2: maybe like seven or eight years, and I think there's

0:44 Speaker 2: over eighty people who've been involved now from bands from

0:47 Speaker 2: all over the world. So yeah, it is, I guess,

0:50 Speaker 2: like a supergroup, but it involves people not just here

0:52 Speaker 2: in Chicago where I am, but all over the planet.

0:56 Speaker 1: How do you, I mean, how do you manage all

0:58 Speaker 1: of that? Because you're the what your role in this?

1:00 Speaker 1: You're the You're the producer, right, and I assume you

1:04 Speaker 1: you play some things too, or what is your role here?

1:07 Speaker 1: And how did you? Are you the progenitor of the

1:10 Speaker 1: joy Thieves? Did you start this project?

1:12 Speaker 2: Yes, I sure did. I started it just by myself,

1:15 Speaker 2: and it slowly grew over time. So I'm a professional drummer,

1:19 Speaker 2: so I do all the drumming on the tracks for

1:21 Speaker 2: the most part, and then myself and my production partner

1:24 Speaker 2: do all the mixing as well as the You know,

1:26 Speaker 2: when you have this many members, everyone's sending you tracks

1:29 Speaker 2: from all over the place. Someone's got to sit through

1:31 Speaker 2: all those things and make some decisions in the studio

1:33 Speaker 2: and do the production stuff. So that's what I do

1:35 Speaker 2: as well.

1:36 Speaker 1: Is this what you had intended it to be when

1:39 Speaker 1: you started it? Did you imagine it growing to this

1:42 Speaker 1: proportion in terms of the involvement of all these people?

1:45 Speaker 2: Never, never, ever, in a million years, did I think

1:47 Speaker 2: it would be anything like this when it When it

1:49 Speaker 2: first started, it was literally just I was writing music

1:52 Speaker 2: in my home studio for myself. Yeah, that's all there was.

1:55 Speaker 2: It slowly started to grow after that, and then it

1:59 Speaker 2: started to rapidly grow after that. So I mean, I

2:02 Speaker 2: think on our first album there was maybe thirty people,

2:05 Speaker 2: and now, like I said, there's over eighty contributors, So

2:07 Speaker 2: that's incredible.

2:08 Speaker 1: And how did you come to work with all these people?

2:11 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously I'm asking a very broad question because

2:14 Speaker 1: I'm sure every story, you know, every interaction with every

2:18 Speaker 1: person is different. Some of these people are probably people

2:20 Speaker 1: you've worked with before, you know very well. Some maybe

2:23 Speaker 1: you've never met, but you email tracks back and forth

2:25 Speaker 1: or dropbox tracks back and forth, because we live in

2:27 Speaker 1: an era where you can do that. But I mean,

2:29 Speaker 1: how did you pull all these people into this project?

2:33 Speaker 2: So, yeah, as you said, one at a time, right,

2:35 Speaker 2: I mean, some of these people are people that I've

2:37 Speaker 2: known ever since I was a kid, I've played music

2:39 Speaker 2: with forever. The vast majority of these people are musicians

2:43 Speaker 2: that I have been a fans of over the years

2:46 Speaker 2: that I just reached out to them to see if

2:48 Speaker 2: they might be interested in helping do something like this.

2:51 Speaker 2: I will say during the COVID years it kind of

2:53 Speaker 2: helped because all the musicians of the world were literally

2:56 Speaker 2: sitting in front of their computers with no gigs and

2:58 Speaker 2: nothing to do, and that point it really exploded. Everyone

3:02 Speaker 2: was looking for creative projects to be a part of,

3:04 Speaker 2: and I guess I just happened to be right there

3:06 Speaker 2: at the perfect time.

3:08 Speaker 1: Yeah, that comes up a lot on this show to

3:11 Speaker 1: COVID and how the pandemic affected how we make music,

3:15 Speaker 1: and I've always said, you know, obviously it was a

3:18 Speaker 1: terrible experience, but we have to find the silver linings

3:20 Speaker 1: where we can in one of the few silver linings

3:22 Speaker 1: what the pandemic was. I think it really kind of

3:24 Speaker 1: forced a lot of musicians to sort of reevaluate what

3:30 Speaker 1: they're willing to try in terms of making music and collaboration.

3:34 Speaker 1: You know, all the means to do that, all the

3:35 Speaker 1: technology already existed, and a lot of musicians were already

3:38 Speaker 1: doing it that way, but I think the pandemic forced

3:40 Speaker 1: a lot of musicians who maybe had been resistant to

3:43 Speaker 1: try and that you know, next thing, you know, you've

3:45 Speaker 1: like you've got classic rock bands getting together remotely online

3:49 Speaker 1: to do concerts on YouTube and stuff like that. And

3:51 Speaker 1: of course, you know, we saw this increase in people

3:54 Speaker 1: working and collaborating with people who they might not otherwise

3:57 Speaker 1: have ever had the chance to because now all of

4:00 Speaker 1: a sudden, they had a lot of time on their hands,

4:01 Speaker 1: as you alluded to, but also people just became a

4:04 Speaker 1: lot more open to the idea, well maybe I really

4:06 Speaker 1: can work with someone remotely and we'll we'll drop box

4:09 Speaker 1: tracks back and forth, and however this is going to go.

4:12 Speaker 1: So I think it really kind of changed just how

4:15 Speaker 1: people in a broad sense, just how musicians think about

4:18 Speaker 1: all that, and kind of open musicians up to working

4:21 Speaker 1: that way on a much greater level.

4:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, I absolutely agree. It was kind of a fast

4:26 Speaker 2: forward button as soon as that happened, where you know,

4:29 Speaker 2: it might have taken people a few years, a few

4:31 Speaker 2: more years to get into working like that, but all

4:33 Speaker 2: of a sudden it turned into kind of that or

4:35 Speaker 2: nothing right, right, So yeah, no, people were all of

4:38 Speaker 2: a sudden. It's very very inspired to do things like that.

4:41 Speaker 2: And fortunately we had started this band three years prior

4:44 Speaker 2: to that, so the machinery of how we were working

4:47 Speaker 2: was already kind of set up. So literally, after reaching

4:50 Speaker 2: out to people, all I'd have to do is say like, look,

4:52 Speaker 2: we have the process in place. All you have to

4:54 Speaker 2: do is this, And it was very easy to bring

4:56 Speaker 2: people aboard at that time.

4:57 Speaker 1: That's a good position to be in where he sort

4:59 Speaker 1: of already got the end PRA structure in place, So.

5:01 Speaker 2: You're exactly yes, exactly right.

5:03 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's excellent. I'm really curious about the album

5:06 Speaker 1: title Apocalypse Pending, and there is sort of a uh,

5:10 Speaker 1: you know, as I listened to the lyrics of these tracks,

5:11 Speaker 1: there there is sort of a I mean, you know,

5:14 Speaker 1: they're very upbeat and energetic and and fun to listen to,

5:17 Speaker 1: but there's also a little bit of that that doom

5:18 Speaker 1: in there. How literally should we take this? Uh? This

5:22 Speaker 1: title is is that what the album is about, the

5:24 Speaker 1: the pending apocalypse? Or is there some other meaning attached

5:30 Speaker 1: to it? Or or maybe it's just a cool title.

5:31 Speaker 1: I don't know. I like the title, but but what

5:34 Speaker 1: what what should I take from it?

5:36 Speaker 2: The well, the the title came from actually the lyrics

5:38 Speaker 2: from a song.

5:39 Speaker 3: Uh.

5:40 Speaker 2: The guy who did all of the vocals on this

5:42 Speaker 2: particular record, his name is Chris Connelly. People might know him.

5:45 Speaker 2: He's a solo artist. He's also worked with like Ministry

5:47 Speaker 2: and Pig Face bands like that, And he did all

5:50 Speaker 2: the vocals on this record, and he wrote all the

5:52 Speaker 2: lyrics and when he turned in that particular song, to me,

5:57 Speaker 2: those two words just kind of jumped out as as

5:59 Speaker 2: an interesting way to kind of package this, this entire thing. Okay,

6:03 Speaker 2: And I think also a lot of this album was

6:06 Speaker 2: fueled by the energy that was going on at the

6:08 Speaker 2: time here in the States, and it was it just

6:12 Speaker 2: it just hit the The two words just seemed to

6:14 Speaker 2: fit perfectly for where.

6:15 Speaker 1: We're headed, right right. Yeah, I mean I hope you're wrong,

6:19 Speaker 1: but but I but I but I understand. I mean

6:22 Speaker 1: you probably hear from a lot of people who've said,

6:24 Speaker 1: who've said to you, Yeah, I kind of I'm feeling that.

6:26 Speaker 1: And and that's why this, uh, that's why this connects

6:29 Speaker 1: with me.

6:30 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And and kind of when we were working

6:33 Speaker 2: on this, it was right in the middle of when

6:35 Speaker 2: Ice was doing all sorts of raids here in Chicago

6:38 Speaker 2: and all this kind of crazy energy. And and Chris

6:40 Speaker 2: he's actually he's from Scotland. Yeah, so so he's here

6:44 Speaker 2: in the States, but he grew up in Scotland and

6:46 Speaker 2: he started to get nervous. I mean, they're the people

6:48 Speaker 2: who are were born in other places were starting to

6:51 Speaker 2: get nervous. He's one of them. And a lot of

6:52 Speaker 2: that kind of fear and anger was coming out in

6:54 Speaker 2: this music, and that's a that's a huge part of it.

6:57 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I can see where people would connect with that.

7:00 Speaker 1: I just as as an aside, I know someone who's

7:02 Speaker 1: from Canada who is in the country legally but is

7:05 Speaker 1: afraid to go home to Canada to visit because she's

7:08 Speaker 1: she's worried that she won't get back in because exactly right,

7:11 Speaker 1: things are so things are so crazy right now.

7:13 Speaker 2: Exactly And that's the kind of fear and apprehension and

7:16 Speaker 2: tension that we're all feeling. When we were making this record.

7:19 Speaker 2: It was, it was in high gear at that time.

7:21 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I was just reading that you've is

7:23 Speaker 1: this quote true, You've you've described the lyrics as being

7:27 Speaker 1: quote violently anti fascist. Yeah.

7:30 Speaker 2: Absolutely. That quote comes directly from Chris, the guy who

7:33 Speaker 2: wrote all the lyrics.

7:34 Speaker 1: Oh gotcha, gotcha.

7:36 Speaker 2: So he he's and he does all of that. I

7:38 Speaker 2: don't write the lyrics, So that's a direct quote from him,

7:41 Speaker 2: so I can guarantee you that's exactly what he means.

7:43 Speaker 4: Yeah.

7:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's great. I love it. I love it.

7:46 Speaker 3: Well.

7:47 Speaker 1: So when you started, you know, kind of going back

7:49 Speaker 1: to when you started this during the pandemic. Was there

7:51 Speaker 1: ever a point where you felt like maybe this idea

7:54 Speaker 1: wasn't going to work? What like? Did you run in

7:56 Speaker 1: any challenges creatively where you thought this, you know, I

8:00 Speaker 1: to approach it this way, even though the technology is there,

8:02 Speaker 1: even though we're ready to do this. I'm not so sure.

8:05 Speaker 1: Were there any stumbling blocks or was it pretty smooth?

8:08 Speaker 2: You know, because we started, like I said, a few

8:11 Speaker 2: years before COVID, so we've been doing this for a while. So,

8:13 Speaker 2: like you said, the infrastructure was in place. So I

8:16 Speaker 2: will say, we always tend to bite off more than

8:20 Speaker 2: we think we can chew in the beginning on a

8:22 Speaker 2: lot of these projects. Sure, and there are so many

8:25 Speaker 2: moving parts, and I will says there was never a

8:27 Speaker 2: time where I thought this isn't gonna work. But I

8:29 Speaker 2: will say there are times that are very challenging for

8:31 Speaker 2: myself and my production partner James, because we're the ones

8:35 Speaker 2: everything has to go through us. Someone has to be

8:37 Speaker 2: staying there at the very front and make a lot

8:39 Speaker 2: of these decisions and it can be overwhelming. But that said, no,

8:43 Speaker 2: there was never a time where I thought this isn't

8:45 Speaker 2: gonna work. Every single thing about this project has felt

8:47 Speaker 2: very natural and very good.

8:49 Speaker 1: So that's good. That's good. And what about your partnership

8:52 Speaker 1: with ArmaLite Ams saying that correctly, ArmaLite Industries.

8:56 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, they're from London, They're a label from London.

9:00 Speaker 2: They have actually released everything that we've ever put out,

9:03 Speaker 2: and from the very beginning, wow, the very genesis of

9:06 Speaker 2: this band. And we put I put together a few recordings,

9:09 Speaker 2: some demos and stuff and sent them out to Armlite

9:12 Speaker 2: and from the very beginning they were just all aboard.

9:15 Speaker 2: They saw the vision completely. They have been amazing and

9:18 Speaker 2: stood by us for all this time.

9:20 Speaker 1: Oh that's outstanding. That's outstanding. I've also seen, you know,

9:24 Speaker 1: this referred to as industrial music, and obviously, I mean

9:26 Speaker 1: that's kind of a sort of a broad category. But

9:30 Speaker 1: do you feel like, how do you gauge kind of

9:32 Speaker 1: the interest in industrial music, because I feel like it's

9:35 Speaker 1: always been for since I was a kid. It's well,

9:39 Speaker 1: I don't know if we even had the term industrial

9:41 Speaker 1: music when I was a kid, necessarily, but sometimes I

9:43 Speaker 1: like to forget about how old I actually am. But

9:47 Speaker 1: but I feel like it's always sort of existed in

9:50 Speaker 1: this niche or niche as I guess people like to

9:53 Speaker 1: pronounce it lately, and it doesn't. It's so rarely sort

9:58 Speaker 1: of connects to the mainstream. I'm a radio guy, so

10:01 Speaker 1: I tend to think of it from the perspective of radio.

10:04 Speaker 1: So over the years, you know, there's been you know,

10:07 Speaker 1: there was nine Inch Nails and some others that are

10:10 Speaker 1: that you would put in that category of industrial, but

10:13 Speaker 1: there it seems like there's never a lot of mainstream

10:17 Speaker 1: industrial acts. And I'm not sure why that is, because

10:22 Speaker 1: you know, I'm a big fan, so I'm biased. I

10:24 Speaker 1: love industrial music. But but do you feel like recently

10:28 Speaker 1: there's been kind of a renewed interest in this type

10:31 Speaker 1: of music.

10:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, over the past few years, I think definitely.

10:35 Speaker 2: So it's one of these categories that's it's so broad

10:38 Speaker 2: that it's just kind of almost useless to call some

10:41 Speaker 2: bandosia kind of just because there are so many variations,

10:45 Speaker 2: right right, But I will agree with you, typically there's

10:49 Speaker 2: not a lot of that finds its way to the

10:50 Speaker 2: radio waves. But I will say, I mean, we come

10:53 Speaker 2: from a very sung oriented point of view. A lot

10:55 Speaker 2: of that music doesn't. And that's part of the reason

10:58 Speaker 2: that I really like a lot of that stuff. It's

10:59 Speaker 2: very experimental. It's very you know, there could be long

11:02 Speaker 2: kind of experimental pieces. We are song focused, and I

11:07 Speaker 2: think that comes out very clear in all of our

11:09 Speaker 2: recordings that we have stuff that could be played on

11:11 Speaker 2: the radio, but hopefully still fits in that category somehow.

11:15 Speaker 1: Right, No, that makes sense. That makes sense. It's very accessible.

11:19 Speaker 1: It's just a matter of getting it to the right

11:21 Speaker 1: people to hear it. What can you tell me about

11:26 Speaker 1: the video for for No Anchor? Sure?

11:31 Speaker 2: Well did the video for No Anchor was just a

11:35 Speaker 2: lyric video that we did. And and the guy who's

11:38 Speaker 2: in itto doing the vocals, that's Chris. That's Chris Connelly,

11:40 Speaker 2: the guy who's sang all the vocals on this. And

11:43 Speaker 2: you know, it's kind of fun when we make videos

11:45 Speaker 2: because this project exists literally just as a recording project.

11:50 Speaker 2: This is we don't play shows, we don't tour, we

11:52 Speaker 2: don't do any of that. So some of the some

11:54 Speaker 2: of these videos give us the chance to actually get

11:56 Speaker 2: together in a room and perform and do some fun stuff,

11:59 Speaker 2: which I really do joy.

12:00 Speaker 1: Right, No Anchor? I apologize, Dan, Yeah, No Anchor is

12:04 Speaker 1: a lyric video. I said the wrong. I meant the

12:06 Speaker 1: wrong end of the rifle the wrong end of your rifle.

12:09 Speaker 1: I really like this video a lot. That's what I

12:10 Speaker 1: meant to ask you. This is the visually this is

12:14 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's disturbing, but it's it's it's fascinating.

12:18 Speaker 1: I'm actually playing it right now again just to kind

12:20 Speaker 1: of refresh my mind on it. But I love the uh,

12:23 Speaker 1: I love the effects on this that just visually it's

12:25 Speaker 1: it's you know, and it's funny too, because we were

12:29 Speaker 1: talking about technology and how how you can do things

12:32 Speaker 1: differently than you used to be able to. There was

12:34 Speaker 1: a time when to make a video like this it

12:38 Speaker 1: would be so expensive, you know, to make a video

12:40 Speaker 1: and get it on MTV and all of that. But

12:43 Speaker 1: now you can do it.

12:45 Speaker 2: Uh.

12:45 Speaker 1: And I'm curious to know about the making of this video.

12:47 Speaker 1: But you can do something that looks incredible for but

12:51 Speaker 1: it's much more accessible to be able to do something

12:54 Speaker 1: that is really visually stunning like this video.

12:57 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and we're lucky that we've had. Actually, our very

13:01 Speaker 2: first music video was made by this guy, Joel Lopez

13:04 Speaker 2: from Lumber Productions. He's the same guy who's made every

13:07 Speaker 2: single music video that we've done, including that one. So

13:10 Speaker 2: very early kind of like the label. Very early, we

13:13 Speaker 2: stumbled across somebody who was the perfect match for what

13:16 Speaker 2: we were trying to do. And you'll see our videos.

13:19 Speaker 2: Everyone has its own kind of look, but they're all

13:21 Speaker 2: from the same guy.

13:22 Speaker 1: Oh okay, that makes sense. Well, yeah, you found somebody

13:25 Speaker 1: who definitely really captures something there, so it makes sense

13:28 Speaker 1: as you would want to work with them. Yeah, I

13:30 Speaker 1: suggest people check out the video. It's just it's just

13:32 Speaker 1: really cool. It kind of reminds me a little bit

13:34 Speaker 1: of some of the videos I would see on MTV

13:36 Speaker 1: in the nineties that were you know, like not again

13:40 Speaker 1: so little industrial music kind of made it into that

13:42 Speaker 1: MTV mainstream. But I would watch one hundred and twenty

13:46 Speaker 1: minutes on Sunday nights and see some things that you

13:49 Speaker 1: wouldn't see in regular rotation on MTV, and I would

13:51 Speaker 1: see videos that, you know, kind of had an esthetic

13:54 Speaker 1: like that. Maybe it makes me a little nostalgic for that,

13:56 Speaker 1: but no, it was just really cool and it's it's

13:58 Speaker 1: such a great song. So, yeah, you did mention live.

14:02 Speaker 1: So none of these so none of these songs ever

14:04 Speaker 1: get played live, right, because there's really no way for

14:06 Speaker 1: you to do that. Because it's such a large collective.

14:10 Speaker 2: Exactly. The closest we come is when we're making videos.

14:13 Speaker 2: We actually did in twenty twenty one, we actually got

14:16 Speaker 2: together in a studio with a group of people and

14:18 Speaker 2: did some live some live recordings in the studio, and

14:21 Speaker 2: that's the closest we've been. We have no plans on

14:24 Speaker 2: doing any tours or gigging or anything like that. Is

14:26 Speaker 2: just there's so many moving parts and I never say never,

14:29 Speaker 2: I guess, I guess it could happen, but at this

14:32 Speaker 2: point in time, that's kind of not the point of

14:33 Speaker 2: what we're trying to do. The point is writing and

14:36 Speaker 2: releasing the music, right.

14:37 Speaker 1: Right, So what's Obviously you're focused on this album and

14:41 Speaker 1: promoting this album, but do you kind of know what's

14:44 Speaker 1: next for the Joy Thieves, what the forward trajectory is.

14:49 Speaker 2: You know, there's always stuff cooking in the background. Which

14:52 Speaker 2: is always one of the fun parts is you know,

14:54 Speaker 2: by the time an album actually comes out, we're already

14:57 Speaker 2: knee deep in something else that we're working on. So

15:00 Speaker 2: it's good. There's always a plan for new music and

15:02 Speaker 2: there's always going to be forward motion on this thing,

15:05 Speaker 2: and hopefully that means bringing possibly even more people and

15:09 Speaker 2: involving more people and seeing where it goes and just

15:11 Speaker 2: watching it progress.

15:13 Speaker 1: No, that's fantastic. In a moment, We're going to play

15:16 Speaker 1: this track, ambush Vines because I think, tell me if

15:19 Speaker 1: I have this right? Was this the previous single before?

15:21 Speaker 1: No Anger?

15:23 Speaker 2: No No Way? There was The Wrong End of Your

15:26 Speaker 2: Rifle was the first single, oh, and No Anchor was

15:29 Speaker 2: the second single.

15:30 Speaker 1: Oh I Got You? I Got You?

15:31 Speaker 3: Oh.

15:31 Speaker 1: I think Ambush Vines was a focused track. Okay it is, Yes,

15:34 Speaker 1: you know what. I'm going to actually play them both

15:36 Speaker 1: at the end of our conversation because I really like

15:37 Speaker 1: both tracks. I like the whole thing. Thank you, we

15:39 Speaker 1: have to Yeah, we have time. I can see them

15:41 Speaker 1: both in. But where before we let you go, Dan,

15:44 Speaker 1: where's the best place for people to go online to

15:47 Speaker 1: keep up with everything that you're doing? Because I want

15:49 Speaker 1: people to be able to find you, and like I said,

15:51 Speaker 1: the album is incredible. People should listen to the whole thing.

15:53 Speaker 1: But where's the best place to go online?

15:56 Speaker 2: You can go to the joy Thieves dot com. That's

15:58 Speaker 2: probably the best place because that links to all of

16:00 Speaker 2: our other sites, you know, and we're on obviously all

16:03 Speaker 2: the socials, and then we do we do a lot

16:05 Speaker 2: of our sales through band Camp yep. So we also

16:07 Speaker 2: have a band Camp page under the Joy Thieves, So

16:09 Speaker 2: any of those places will work great.

16:11 Speaker 1: I'm glad you're on band Camp too. That's something I've

16:14 Speaker 1: really been pushing on the show for a couple of

16:15 Speaker 1: years now. Band Camp, I think is such a great

16:18 Speaker 1: resource and something that people don't necessarily realize. And I

16:21 Speaker 1: always try to impart this to my listeners. If you

16:25 Speaker 1: purchase a track on band camp, you know, not only

16:28 Speaker 1: not only is band camp very artists friendly, so you're

16:30 Speaker 1: helping the artist, but you also get the highest quality

16:34 Speaker 1: file of the track that you're going to get versus say,

16:38 Speaker 1: you know, if you're just streaming it on YouTube or something,

16:40 Speaker 1: you know, you get a high you get a high

16:42 Speaker 1: quality file from band Camp.

16:43 Speaker 2: Absolutely. I'm a huge band camp fan and we and

16:46 Speaker 2: that's why we do a lot of work through them,

16:48 Speaker 2: and we release everything through them. And honestly, just as

16:50 Speaker 2: a listener, I go to band Camp all the time.

16:52 Speaker 2: That's where I buy all my music.

16:54 Speaker 1: Oh good good, Yeah that's excellent. Yeah. We love band

16:56 Speaker 1: camp so very good, very good. So we're gonna go

16:58 Speaker 1: ahead and hit this. I think I'm gonna play the Wrong

17:00 Speaker 1: End of your Rifle and then I'm gonna play Ambush Vines.

17:03 Speaker 1: But another a great couple of tracks. But uh, Dan Milligan,

17:07 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. We'll definitely do

17:09 Speaker 1: this again in the future. It sounds like you've got

17:11 Speaker 1: a lot coming up in the future of the Joy

17:13 Speaker 1: Thieves and and we'd love to have you back. And

17:14 Speaker 1: of course we'll talk about anything else that you're up

17:16 Speaker 1: to as well. But I really love this this album.

17:19 Speaker 1: Congratulations on Apocalypse Pending. I think it's great. I encourage

17:22 Speaker 1: everyone to check it out. Go to band camp and

17:24 Speaker 1: check it out. And Dan, thank you so much for

17:26 Speaker 1: joining us today.

17:28 Speaker 2: Hey, thank you so much. This has been a lot

17:29 Speaker 2: of fun.

17:29 Speaker 1: Oh great, Thank you all right, talk to you soon.

17:31 Speaker 2: Bye bye, okay, bye bye.

17:33 Speaker 1: All right. That is Daniel Milligan from The Joy Thieves.

17:37 Speaker 1: And yeah, we're gonna play both of these. These are

17:39 Speaker 1: these are worth playing. Uh let's see, so we've got

17:41 Speaker 1: the wrong end of the Rifle and then we're gonna

17:43 Speaker 1: follow that up with Ambush Vines, two great tracks from

17:45 Speaker 1: The Joy Thieves. Check this out.

18:00 Speaker 4: Why I feeling bristless something came alive about bullet proofast

18:05 Speaker 4: and an angry portal to my heart from my walkie.

18:09 Speaker 2: Talking to the shopping.

18:10 Speaker 4: Sound of bloodshead overall stop going to stir it up.

18:15 Speaker 4: But did you catch the streets or body line defeat?

18:19 Speaker 5: Don't come feel.

18:21 Speaker 6: Coming along down here to the siren.

18:23 Speaker 2: Says it's over.

18:27 Speaker 4: Come the line down here till the suniren says it's sober.

18:31 Speaker 5: Not one to clist with my infastus more like coniac

18:35 Speaker 5: arrest us manas Agler and said heavily on Conchester.

18:43 Speaker 6: Man said fast and paying the lamb. Come on, friend,

18:48 Speaker 6: thank god your sad, I said, Jack came to me

18:52 Speaker 6: and nothing, looking at.

18:54 Speaker 7: The knife for penske and the running walk. Your knife.

19:02 Speaker 6: Suck on that thing.

19:04 Speaker 3: Afraid I want to speak.

19:05 Speaker 4: So Chris through Buddy caps hand could take an orgasm

19:09 Speaker 4: with a bullet raiser, unsorry, but.

19:12 Speaker 3: We never filmed it.

19:13 Speaker 4: No play, not even partially helping any of these freaks

19:17 Speaker 4: can recall the last time the either hazer fool the

19:20 Speaker 4: breeze along with cigarettes dissolving.

19:23 Speaker 1: It's a bull of broad lock.

19:26 Speaker 3: You want me back again, you want me back, You

19:32 Speaker 3: want me back, You want.

19:37 Speaker 6: Me back again.

19:38 Speaker 7: You want me back, You want me back, speaks.

20:10 Speaker 6: Becun sa mas convey away cover a grand and your say,

20:16 Speaker 6: I say I can't the pay.

20:20 Speaker 1: That's the bay looking to stifle.

20:22 Speaker 3: Player say.

20:25 Speaker 7: I'm run got my pouch.

20:30 Speaker 8: I haven't run, Look at my poul, I haven't run

20:36 Speaker 8: my bout they can I go up, Let me grab.

20:54 Speaker 2: Kia, come in the house. Recomc cap.

21:03 Speaker 3: The path.

21:06 Speaker 7: There acrus.

21:10 Speaker 3: Hack Why hack? Why hack?

21:18 Speaker 6: It's not your love of dream to ride a mercedary

21:22 Speaker 6: resolute to SAMs no boddy.

21:25 Speaker 8: Strangers lost on driven.

21:27 Speaker 4: Side, it's not your body.

21:29 Speaker 5: Try to reveal and leave them about.

21:32 Speaker 1: Wants them all on.

21:33 Speaker 5: Secret crowd strangers lost on Driven's side, and respite.

21:40 Speaker 3: A minders wear white.

21:43 Speaker 5: To the moon to read the size bogata, to let

21:47 Speaker 5: the grass contact of the self cross, to write the price.

21:51 Speaker 4: If you're reply to try along the great device nigger

21:55 Speaker 4: wi redomics like the tail of a self cross.

22:00 Speaker 3: It's just the state of fine.

22:02 Speaker 4: Beware the average fe states of mine is just a

22:06 Speaker 4: state of.

22:07 Speaker 2: N Beware the average fine. It's just just the states

22:11 Speaker 2: of fne.

22:12 Speaker 4: Beware the average big state of mind, just the stains

22:16 Speaker 4: of vine.

22:17 Speaker 5: Beware the average line that your brother dream was.

22:22 Speaker 4: Ri se tap against the great escape the choicing, it

22:27 Speaker 4: is just so wet?

22:30 Speaker 8: Is that a legal mass cleave?

22:33 Speaker 1: The closuit is to again.

22:36 Speaker 3: The block back to.

22:37 Speaker 7: The gun for hi back Thruans.

22:44 Speaker 3: Understand the fs.

22:46 Speaker 5: Fine mind a weird light to them to read the size,

22:53 Speaker 5: to let a grass contat of the scro to write

22:57 Speaker 5: the rise.

22:57 Speaker 3: It's your fine, Oh my great surmise, make a lad.

23:02 Speaker 2: What direct to me like potato a silk crode.

23:06 Speaker 8: It's just a stati mine.

23:08 Speaker 5: Be welly, and by say a b just a stat.

23:13 Speaker 3: To mine, be welly, stay up, by a fine welly

23:20 Speaker 3: fi stay ye say well. Yeah.

23:36 Speaker 1: Oh I love it. I love that project, The Joy Thieves.

23:39 Speaker 1: Snip you again to Daniel Milligan for joining us.

23:42 Speaker 3: Uh.

23:43 Speaker 1: We had a great conversation. I thought I really enjoyed

23:45 Speaker 1: talking with him, and I love that project, The Joy Thieves.

23:48 Speaker 1: The album is called Apocalypse pending hopefully. Uh they're wrong

23:53 Speaker 1: about that. But Chris Connolly, the vocalist on this as

24:01 Speaker 1: Dan and I were discussing, describes the music has been

24:04 Speaker 1: violently anti fascist, which I'm on board with. So I

24:08 Speaker 1: love that. But yeah, that is The Joy Thieves. Check

24:10 Speaker 1: out the whole album. Go to bandcamp check it out.

24:12 Speaker 1: Not right now, stay with me for the rest of

24:14 Speaker 1: the show, but afterward, please immediately afterward, I mean immediately, like,

24:19 Speaker 1: don't even I don't care what else you have to do.

24:22 Speaker 1: Immediately go to bandcamp and check out the Joy Thieves

24:24 Speaker 1: and the album Apocalypse Pending. It is really, really good.

24:27 Speaker 1: This is Matt Connorton Unleashed and we are live from

24:30 Speaker 1: the studios of wm NH ninety five point three FM

24:34 Speaker 1: and Glorious but Hot. Gloriously hot if you ask me,

24:39 Speaker 1: because I like the heat, Manchester, New Hampshire. And of

24:42 Speaker 1: course you can stream the show from anywhere. Go to

24:43 Speaker 1: Matt connorton dot com slash live for all your live

24:47 Speaker 1: streaming options, social media links, contact info, show archives, et cetera,

24:50 Speaker 1: et cetera. And of course don't forget the new website,

24:52 Speaker 1: Matt Connorton Unleashed dot com. A simpler site but lots

24:57 Speaker 1: of great content and a searchable archive. If you're looking

25:00 Speaker 1: for a particular guest who's been on the show, that

25:03 Speaker 1: is your best bet Matt Connerton Unleashed dot com. And

25:06 Speaker 1: we've got some cool new stuff that we're adding to

25:08 Speaker 1: that as well. We've got a couple of articles in

25:10 Speaker 1: the on the blog page of the site, but we're

25:12 Speaker 1: gonna be adding a lot more content there, so not

25:15 Speaker 1: just audio for you to peruse, but also some articles

25:20 Speaker 1: you don't really peruse. Article audio. I said that backward.

25:25 Speaker 1: I think audio that you can listen to, but articles

25:27 Speaker 1: that you can peruse. Articles seem perusible necessarily. I don't

25:31 Speaker 1: know if perusible is even a word. But here we

25:33 Speaker 1: are today is Saturday, June thirteen, twenty twenty six. Very

25:37 Speaker 1: nice to have you with me. Thank you, and let's see,

25:40 Speaker 1: let's do a little bit more music industry news. Here's

25:43 Speaker 1: something that kind of as a radio guy, I saw

25:46 Speaker 1: this and I said, WHOA, what's going on here? This

25:50 Speaker 1: is from a music business worldwide dot com? As I

25:52 Speaker 1: always say, one of my favorite websites for music industry

25:56 Speaker 1: news says here ASCAP sues four radio groups for its

26:02 Speaker 1: prolonged unauthorized use of its members music. Now, this is

26:06 Speaker 1: interesting to me because in radio, when you're in a

26:09 Speaker 1: radio station such as I am right now, for example,

26:11 Speaker 1: you know you take it for granted, you can just

26:12 Speaker 1: play whatever you want. It's radio, and you know it's

26:17 Speaker 1: a complex process. But radio pays, you know, these performing

26:20 Speaker 1: arts companies or we have to report to the I'm

26:23 Speaker 1: not involved in any of it, but we report to

26:25 Speaker 1: the performance performing arts companies. You know what gets played

26:29 Speaker 1: and so you know, are the artists get paid for

26:33 Speaker 1: their songs being played on the radio, et cetera. We

26:36 Speaker 1: won't get into the details of that. But this this,

26:39 Speaker 1: I saw this, and I said, WHOA, what's going on? Okay,

26:41 Speaker 1: So again ASKAPS. Who's four radio groups for prolonged unauthorized

26:47 Speaker 1: use of its members music? It says here ASKAP has

26:49 Speaker 1: filed copyright infringement lawsuits against four US radio groups that

26:55 Speaker 1: it says have broadcast its members music without a valid license. Oh,

27:02 Speaker 1: this isn't something you expect even to hear about in

27:04 Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. Maybe back in the days of pirate

27:08 Speaker 1: radio stations and outlaw radio, but not in this hyper

27:13 Speaker 1: corporatized radio world that we live in now. You don't

27:16 Speaker 1: expect to ever hear stories like this. That's part of

27:18 Speaker 1: why this caught my attention. So the Performing Rights Organization

27:24 Speaker 1: ASCAP said on Tuesday, June nine that the four groups

27:28 Speaker 1: operate a total of fifteen radio stations. Now, let's see

27:32 Speaker 1: if we recognize any of these names. It sounds like

27:34 Speaker 1: these are all very small companies, you know, because in radio, obviously,

27:37 Speaker 1: you've got big companies like iHeart Radio, which is I

27:41 Speaker 1: think the biggest volidation in the music in the well,

27:47 Speaker 1: not just in the music industry, not really in the

27:49 Speaker 1: music industry, but in the radio industry specifically. We've seen

27:51 Speaker 1: a lot of consolidation, a lot of big companies buying

27:54 Speaker 1: up smaller companies. You see it in every industry really,

27:58 Speaker 1: but I think iHeartRadio is the biggest, used to be

28:02 Speaker 1: Clear Channel. But these are all it looks like these

28:06 Speaker 1: are all very small radio groups because I haven't heard

28:09 Speaker 1: of any of these. Huago broad I don't even know

28:12 Speaker 1: how to pronounce Itago ha Ugo, who Go, I don't know,

28:17 Speaker 1: I don't know what that is. But I've never heard

28:19 Speaker 1: of them. Who Go Broadcasting Inc. In South Dakota, Spoon

28:22 Speaker 1: River Media LLC in Indiana, Taylor Communications in Mississippi, And

28:30 Speaker 1: uh oh, this one's hitting close to home. Barry Lunderville

28:34 Speaker 1: Radio in New Hampshire. Uh oh, We're gonna have to

28:41 Speaker 1: look up what station's Berry Lunderville Radio owns and why

28:44 Speaker 1: is it called Barry? This guy literally. I assume there's

28:48 Speaker 1: a guy named Berry Lunderville who started the company and

28:51 Speaker 1: decided to call it Barry Lunderville Radio. Uh. Okay, we're

28:57 Speaker 1: gonna look that up in a minute. Okay.

29:00 Speaker 2: Here.

29:00 Speaker 1: According to the article, ASCAP represents more than one point

29:02 Speaker 1: one million songwriters, composers, and music publishers and licenses the

29:08 Speaker 1: public performance of their work to businesses that play music,

29:11 Speaker 1: including radio stations. About ninety percent of the license fees

29:16 Speaker 1: that ASCAP collects are paid to its songwriters, composers, and

29:19 Speaker 1: music publishers as royalties. Most US commercial radio stations license

29:25 Speaker 1: ASCAPS music through an agreement between ASCAP and the Radio

29:30 Speaker 1: Music License Committee, which negotiates blanket license rates on the

29:35 Speaker 1: industry's behalf. That agreement provides access to more than twenty

29:40 Speaker 1: million works for ASCAPS repertory for a fee calculated as

29:45 Speaker 1: a percentage of station revenues. According to the organization, ASCAP

29:50 Speaker 1: and the RmlC reached a settlement in August twenty twenty

29:54 Speaker 1: five that raised the royalty rates paid by almost ten

29:58 Speaker 1: thousand commercial terrestrial radio stations in the US. The deal

30:01 Speaker 1: included year on year increases in the percentage of revenue

30:05 Speaker 1: rate paid by Stations. BMI, another US performing rights organization,

30:09 Speaker 1: reached its own RmlC settlement in August twenty twenty five,

30:13 Speaker 1: in what it called its largest rate increase ever for radio.

30:18 Speaker 1: By the way, sidebar obvious, but I'll say it bad

30:22 Speaker 1: for radio, but good for the artists. Okay, radio has

30:27 Speaker 1: to pay more, but the artists are getting more. Radio

30:31 Speaker 1: stations that broadcast music typically licensed multiple performing rights organizations,

30:35 Speaker 1: including ASCAP, BMI, CSACK, and Global Music Rights. A license

30:39 Speaker 1: from one does not cover the others, and each pursues

30:42 Speaker 1: its own infringement actions against stations that do not pay.

30:49 Speaker 1: ASCAP chairman of the board and president and songwriter Paul

30:52 Speaker 1: Williams are member. Paul Williams. Remember Paul Williams said, quote,

30:57 Speaker 1: music is the lifeblood of radio, and the overwhelming majority

31:00 Speaker 1: of radio stations follow the law unquote. By the way,

31:03 Speaker 1: I can picture Paul Williams, but I can't think of

31:05 Speaker 1: any Paul Williams songs, he also said, quote, And that's

31:11 Speaker 1: not a diss on Paul Williams. I just I can't.

31:13 Speaker 1: I literally, I can picture what he looks like very clearly.

31:18 Speaker 1: I cannot think of a single Paul Williams song why

31:20 Speaker 1: is that? I don't know? I apologize to Paul Williams. Quote.

31:27 Speaker 1: As songwriters and composers, we earn our livelihoods through our

31:30 Speaker 1: creative work, and music is how we put food on

31:33 Speaker 1: the table, pay the rent, and support our families. Radio

31:36 Speaker 1: station owners know that an ASKAP blank at license allows

31:39 Speaker 1: them to offer music legally, efficiently, and at a reasonable price,

31:43 Speaker 1: while compensating music creators fairly unquote. Under federal copyright law,

31:49 Speaker 1: broadcasters must obtain permission from copyright owners before playing their music.

31:53 Speaker 1: Ass CAP said the four station groups have repeatedly refused

31:56 Speaker 1: to renew their licenses and pay the required fees according

31:59 Speaker 1: to ask ASCAP said the defendants of broadcast music written

32:03 Speaker 1: and published by its members without authorization or payment for

32:06 Speaker 1: the last several years. Clara Kim, ASCAP's EVP, Executive vice

32:13 Speaker 1: president and chief Legal and business affairs officers said, quote,

32:17 Speaker 1: we don't take legal action lightly when a station refuses

32:20 Speaker 1: to pay for the music that makes their business possible.

32:23 Speaker 1: We have a responsibility to our members to take action unquote.

32:27 Speaker 1: ASCAP said it terminated each broadcaster's license and proceeded with

32:31 Speaker 1: litigation after exhausting attempts to reach a resolution. ASCAP says

32:37 Speaker 1: it is the only US performing rights organization that operates

32:40 Speaker 1: on a not for profit basis. I didn't know that

32:43 Speaker 1: about ninety percent of the license fees that ASCAP collects

32:46 Speaker 1: are paid to the songwriters, composers, and music publishers as royalties,

32:51 Speaker 1: the organization said.

32:53 Speaker 4: Ummmm.

32:54 Speaker 1: ASCAP licenses its repertory to streaming services, television and rap

33:00 Speaker 1: D broadcasters, and a brick and mortar businesses such as bars, restaurants,

33:04 Speaker 1: and retail stories. Now that's something a lot of people

33:06 Speaker 1: don't know. Say, when you go into a bar and

33:11 Speaker 1: you hear music being played over the stereo a bar

33:16 Speaker 1: or any kind of business, you know, that's again, they

33:19 Speaker 1: have to pay for that. That's not free. They don't

33:21 Speaker 1: just turn on the radio and let it play, or

33:24 Speaker 1: put on some music and let it play, or you

33:27 Speaker 1: use a service for that and just let it play

33:28 Speaker 1: and that's it. They have to pay for that. And venues,

33:33 Speaker 1: music venues, And I don't care how big or small

33:35 Speaker 1: it is, even if it's just a little tiny, little,

33:38 Speaker 1: you know, dive bar on the corner, if they have

33:41 Speaker 1: someone come in and play live, like maybe they have

33:43 Speaker 1: an acoustic singer songwriter come in and play live in

33:45 Speaker 1: the little bar, this little tiny bar that nobody even

33:48 Speaker 1: knows about. They do have to pay for that. If

33:51 Speaker 1: the artists, I mean, if they're playing original songs, it

33:54 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. But if they're playing cover songs, the bar

33:58 Speaker 1: has to pay for that. They have to pay these

34:00 Speaker 1: licensing organizations for that if they don't. And by the way,

34:05 Speaker 1: this is gonna sound wild. I swear to some of

34:08 Speaker 1: you won't even believe me when I say this, but

34:10 Speaker 1: I swear to God this is the truth. They and

34:14 Speaker 1: I'll tell you in a minute why I know about this.

34:17 Speaker 1: They actually send these performing rights organizations, performance rights organizations,

34:23 Speaker 1: they have people they send into bars and other types

34:28 Speaker 1: of venues undercover. I'm not kidding. Undercover. They have people

34:32 Speaker 1: go in to find out what's going on. Oh, you've

34:36 Speaker 1: got a band playing tonight, let's see. Oh are they

34:42 Speaker 1: doing cover songs?

34:43 Speaker 8: Oh?

34:44 Speaker 1: Are these cover songs of any of our clients at ASKAP.

34:49 Speaker 1: Oh we have a problem, and they will, uh, they

34:55 Speaker 1: will make it known to the owner or the management

34:57 Speaker 1: of that establishment. No, you are about to You've got

35:01 Speaker 1: a heap of trouble here because you can't be doing this.

35:05 Speaker 1: And we're about to I don't know how it works.

35:08 Speaker 1: We're about to find you a lot of money or something.

35:09 Speaker 1: I don't know how that would work. But so in

35:11 Speaker 1: other words, they actively and they will send. Look years ago,

35:17 Speaker 1: when I was living in Conquered there was a place

35:20 Speaker 1: called Cafe Eclipse. And we might even have some listeners

35:22 Speaker 1: of this show. If you've been with me for a

35:24 Speaker 1: long time, you might even remember Cafe Eclipse. Christian and

35:29 Speaker 1: Star Skinner good friends of mine. They were the owners

35:32 Speaker 1: and operators of Cafe Eclipse, and but they had a

35:35 Speaker 1: strict policy there no covers. And it was Christian who

35:41 Speaker 1: told me Christian Skinner who told me that the reason

35:44 Speaker 1: is they had actually had someone in there one night

35:49 Speaker 1: who revealed themselves ultimately to be from one of the

35:52 Speaker 1: performing rights organizations, checking out what's going on because and

35:58 Speaker 1: telling Christian. If I remember the story correctly, this person

36:02 Speaker 1: confronted Christian at some point during the evening and said, look,

36:05 Speaker 1: this is where I'm from, this is why i'm here,

36:08 Speaker 1: and you owe us a lot of money, and you've

36:12 Speaker 1: got bands coming into your playing these cover songs and

36:14 Speaker 1: you can't do that. So then they had to make

36:16 Speaker 1: a rule, no more cover songs. I was in a

36:19 Speaker 1: band at the time called the Jinkst.

36:23 Speaker 3: And we.

36:26 Speaker 1: Just the guy thought this was funny. I didn't think

36:29 Speaker 1: it was funny, but you know, because I told them

36:31 Speaker 1: we can't play any covers and we're on stage one

36:34 Speaker 1: night and they started just to mess with me the

36:37 Speaker 1: the opening part of smells like Teen Spirit by Nirvana.

36:40 Speaker 1: Troy started playing that on the guitar and Frank, who

36:45 Speaker 1: was our drummer at the time, started playing it on

36:47 Speaker 1: the joined him on the drums, and I just sat

36:49 Speaker 1: down on the stage with my arms crossed, like, guys,

36:51 Speaker 1: we can't do this. And I know you think this

36:53 Speaker 1: is funny, but this isn't funny because this actual real

36:57 Speaker 1: world sort of you know, consequences here. You're going to

37:02 Speaker 1: ruin our relationship with the venue, who do not want

37:05 Speaker 1: to have to pay for us playing the song right now.

37:08 Speaker 1: So and they were just you know, they didn't they

37:11 Speaker 1: didn't keep playing it. They just play at the beginning

37:13 Speaker 1: of it. But it was like, but I did not

37:15 Speaker 1: enjoy seeing a panicked face come running into the room

37:19 Speaker 1: when they hear what we're doing. It's like, come on, guys,

37:22 Speaker 1: let's let's not jeopardize our relationships. Here with these venues

37:26 Speaker 1: because we need them anyway. But they they will do that.

37:29 Speaker 1: And and I've heard stories and talked to people over

37:33 Speaker 1: the years about again. You know, Oh, I've got a

37:35 Speaker 1: tiny hole in the wall dive bar on the corner

37:38 Speaker 1: that you know, you wouldn't think anyone would even notice

37:41 Speaker 1: was there. We you know, except for the people who

37:43 Speaker 1: come there to drink. And sometimes we have somebody coming

37:45 Speaker 1: in with a guitar and play a little bit. And

37:46 Speaker 1: one night we had someone from BMI come in and

37:51 Speaker 1: put some paperwork down on the bar in front of

37:52 Speaker 1: me and said, you owe us money. So it does happen.

37:57 Speaker 1: It does happen. So I saw that. I thought that

38:00 Speaker 1: was very interesting. Oh, we were going to I'm gonna

38:02 Speaker 1: do this in real time live on the show because

38:04 Speaker 1: I want to know more about these radio groups. One

38:10 Speaker 1: of them is in New Hampshire and I am not

38:12 Speaker 1: familiar with them, Barry Lunderville Radio. I want to google this.

38:18 Speaker 1: Who is Barry Lunderville Radio? And are they even still

38:24 Speaker 1: in business now? Well, apparently Barry Lunderville is dead, I

38:28 Speaker 1: guess because I've got an obituary here from twenty eighteen. Huh.

38:36 Speaker 1: Oh wow, he actually looks familiar to me. Barry Lunderville,

38:39 Speaker 1: he died in twenty eighteen, says Barry's life was radio.

38:44 Speaker 1: He began his career at the tender age of fifteen

38:46 Speaker 1: at WLTN. That da goes on and on. All right,

38:50 Speaker 1: I'm just curious, rip Barry Lunderville. Hoh, sorry, you're gone whatever.

38:57 Speaker 1: I'm just curious. Are these people even in business now

39:01 Speaker 1: that ASCAP has pulled their license. There's a lot of

39:06 Speaker 1: articles here online about ASCAP suing them. Oh, they were involved.

39:18 Speaker 1: Barry Lunderville was involved in some litigation in Oh my God,

39:25 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. There's an article here from Inside Radio. This

39:28 Speaker 1: is from twenty seventeen. His appeal rejected, Lunderville still owes

39:34 Speaker 1: the FCC two hundred and forty four thousand dollars. That's

39:38 Speaker 1: a fine they got fined for something by the FCC.

39:42 Speaker 1: Oh boy, these are some outlaws here at Barry Lunderville

39:46 Speaker 1: Radio says here. This is from twenty seventeen. A federal

39:49 Speaker 1: appeals court in Boston is rejected an attempt by New

39:52 Speaker 1: Hampshire station owner Barry Lunderville to have a financial penalty

39:55 Speaker 1: issued against him by the FCC. Canceled or reduced. The

39:59 Speaker 1: agency handed Underville a two hundred and forty four thousand

40:02 Speaker 1: dollars bill after he withdrew a bit submitted for a

40:05 Speaker 1: new FM during an FCC auction. Okay, not as uh

40:11 Speaker 1: I thought it was. Maybe for something that happened on

40:13 Speaker 1: the air. The FCC find them or something. But no,

40:15 Speaker 1: nothing quite as uh juicy as that. Huh. Well, I

40:21 Speaker 1: don't see again. I see a lot of a lot

40:26 Speaker 1: of articles about ASCAP filing infringement lawsuits against Barry Lunderville Radio,

40:31 Speaker 1: but I don't see anything that indicates are these people

40:34 Speaker 1: even still in business. WLTNFM is owned by Barry Lunderville.

40:42 Speaker 1: I'm looking at ltn's Wikipedia page. I see. I'm wondering

40:45 Speaker 1: if they're off the air now because of what's going on.

40:48 Speaker 1: Uh the Wikipedia page doesn't have a lot of information.

40:52 Speaker 1: All right, We'll move on from that. We'll move on

40:54 Speaker 1: from that. I think I do want to fit in

40:58 Speaker 1: one more great track from The Joy Thieves. I love

41:02 Speaker 1: this project so much. This is another single from The

41:04 Speaker 1: Joy Thieves. And again, thank you for Thank you to

41:06 Speaker 1: Dan Milligan for joining us earlier. I really enjoyed speaking

41:09 Speaker 1: with him and I love this project. The album is

41:12 Speaker 1: called Apocalypse Pending, the project is The Joy Thieves, and

41:16 Speaker 1: this is called I'll Be Your Hammer.