Jamie Higgs | Matt Connarton Unleashed

0:00 Speaker 1: I love that song so much. That is piece in your sound. That is Jamie Higgs, and I believe we have Jamie Higgs with us via WhatsApp. Jamie, are you there?

0:08 Speaker 2: I am indeed hems hey.

0:10 Speaker 1: Welcome to the program. I've been really looking forward to talking with you. I do love that song so much. The first time I listened to it, it was stuck in my head just I could not could not get it out of my brain. Jenny loves it too. What a what a great track that is. Congratulations on that. Is that your newest single?

0:28 Speaker 3: It well, firstly, thank you very much to really appreciate that feedback.

0:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, nice to hear. And yet that's our laser's release.

0:35 Speaker 3: So it was actually the face single pro out in two years. Okay, and it's only asked like my personal second ever single. It's our face as a band.

0:47 Speaker 1: Oh okay.

0:49 Speaker 2: It's like a new beginning, right right. That's yeah.

0:52 Speaker 1: By the way, So I saw something you said in an interview about that that song. Is this correct that that song only took twenty minutes to write It came together really fast?

1:02 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It's a very very simple song. It's like three chordes. It literally just.

1:09 Speaker 3: I think I was listening to a Dire Street song and it was about the melody. Even they had a lot more complex complex with their music. Was very it's just a nice melody. And then I was just pressing about with these chordes, and funny enough, I was in a rush. We had somewhere to be and I just come up with this line of piecing your sound. And I was like that to my wife, was that you're gonna have to wait, just give me a minute, because.

1:34 Speaker 2: You always onto.

1:35 Speaker 3: I was like, you just feel the energy. I was onto something and I just had to finish writing this song. And then I made a note in my phone with the lyrics. We got in the car, and then I made a voice notes singing like the full track as a melody, just a cappellad in the car, and I was like a song formed.

1:52 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, i's till you know you've got something though that when when it's when it's easy, right, when it just kind of comes to you quickly but it's good, then you know you've got something really good because you didn't have to force it. It was just natural. It just kind of you know, manifests in your brain or however it works, you know, whatever your process is for coming up with something like that. No, it's it's really good.

2:13 Speaker 2: And thank you very much.

2:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it is kind of simple, right in terms of the chords, and you know what they say, three chords and the truth. But but what you take and then do with that, that's what counts. And I love the lyrics, and can you talk to us a little bit about the lyrics.

2:29 Speaker 2: It seems like.

2:30 Speaker 1: It's kind of about finding like sort of finding peace in the chaos of life. That's sort of what I took from it. Am I am? I on the right.

2:38 Speaker 2: Track, absolutely right. Yeah. So it's.

2:42 Speaker 3: So I'm married with two kids, which is chaos in itself, and then obviously a gig like three or four nights a week, and the music scenes very chaotic. Yeah, so I found then obviously with your friends and your social life, I just found life is very loud and chaotic all the time, it seems, yes, and sometimes it can kind of.

3:04 Speaker 2: Get you down because you feel like you don't have a minute to breathe.

3:07 Speaker 3: And then in the moments of writing that song, I was like, I love my life even though it's very crazy and loud, It's amazing.

3:19 Speaker 2: I'm surrounded by amazing people. I loved me job of singing.

3:23 Speaker 3: I was like, my piece is in the sound because I know people who don't have a lot going on for themselves and then spending a lot of time on their own actually struggle with depression and everything else.

3:34 Speaker 2: So it's actually being busy and.

3:36 Speaker 3: Having a loud life. That's where the piece is. So it's kind of based around that.

3:42 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I like that. That really connects with me. And I think that's something too that's relatable for a lot of people. You know, even if you have you know, you might have a lot of great things going on and things are very very busy, but you know, you can get overwhelmed. Even when life is really really good, you can get get overwhelmed. And sometimes you have to be able to stop and take and all the good things that you have. And you know, and and you know, uh, in America, we talk a lot about gratitude and you know, you'll hear motivational speakers talk a lot about that stuff and yeah, you know, but but it but it really is important and you know, and and to be able to find piece in the chaos.

4:14 Speaker 1: And no, I love that song. It's very very catchy too, are you. I'm curious about your influences because obviously, like I think a little bit about Oasis when I hear that song that sounds like something that might have been might have fit well on definitely maybe for example, I'm a big Oasis fan. But I'm curious to know more about your influences. I assume you've taken something from the Gallagher brothers, but but probably a lot more than that too, So I'm curious about your influences.

4:41 Speaker 2: Yeah, so.

4:44 Speaker 3: I think as a guitarist ever and a similar sort of influencers. So when you think like singer songwriter, so you've got like your songs of you Bob Dylan's and your Bruce Springsteen's and even like more modern times with your ed Sheen and stuff.

4:57 Speaker 2: I know Edging's a lot considered a lot more pop.

5:00 Speaker 3: But if you played guitar in the last decade, you've took inspiration from Edgy and you have to sure.

5:08 Speaker 2: And then I think, obviously I love David Gray.

5:12 Speaker 3: I'm not sure how big David Gray is in America, but he'd done an album called the White Ladder Album.

5:17 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he was, he was. He was really big here at one point. Yeah, David Gray, Yeah.

5:21 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think I think he peaked with that album.

5:23 Speaker 3: It was in like the nineties, but like that that inspired so much to me writing for a long time, and then I got more into the band stuff. So maybe like a band called the Kooks, who like a big British band. Then you've got obviously your Oasis and Beatles and everyone else.

5:40 Speaker 2: And I think I've tried.

5:42 Speaker 3: To take the singer song right, sort of heart filled lyrics, but put it with like a sort of indie pop music try and try and made them too.

5:57 Speaker 2: I don't know. I guess that's the way I kind of look at it.

6:00 Speaker 1: That makes sense.

6:01 Speaker 3: I think I have to give like, for this song, we have to give big credit to my guitarist, Eddie Ponting, because I loved what I wrote and I love the song, but because of the simplicity of it, I couldn't seem to.

6:14 Speaker 2: Fall in love with it, if that makes sense.

6:17 Speaker 3: And then we were jamming in the room and he'd just done that riff that down't down, and when he done that, it was like love a face sight. As soon as he'd done that, I was like, that's what makes the song. That's what gives it, like the full feel, that's what's going to help sell it. So that was a big part of the inspiration for the song is.

6:40 Speaker 1: I was also reading that you you started guitar playing kind of lay, you know, in contrast with most people. I mean, there is no right age to Obviously, the younger you are, the more you know. In terms of research, they say that the brain can absorb information quicker when you're younger. So if you start an instrument, just like learning a language, the younger you start the better in theory. But you started when you were nineteen, Is that correct?

7:02 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I like you, Matt. You've done the research. You like this?

7:05 Speaker 1: Oh I try, I try.

7:09 Speaker 2: It's good that I like her.

7:11 Speaker 1: What was it that made you start at nineteen? What was it that inspired you to start learning guitar? Or maybe it just kind of happened organically.

7:19 Speaker 2: I don't know, but it was.

7:23 Speaker 3: I'd met a couple of new friends at like eighteen, I got me faced job, I was wearing the suits. It I was like, I felt like a man at eighteen with working with men and everything else. And I met a few older lads and they roll into different genres of music and just different things in life in general. And we would at a house party and one of them was just playing a guitar and I just, I don't know, I just seen it. Yeah, that that line again, love face sight. When I seen it, I was like, that just looks cool.

7:55 Speaker 3: It sounds amazing. So then I just kind of saw his name was Michael. He always moans that I don't mention.

8:01 Speaker 2: Him, Okay, so give him his little showers.

8:04 Speaker 3: But yeah, just something about it. I'd never really grew up around that type of music. Yeah, so I always joke saying I grew up in like a ghetto. So it was like I didn't see a lot of it, and then once I kind of discovered it, I just loved it. Yeah.

8:20 Speaker 1: Yeah, I assume because it sounds like you were pretty motivated, like once you started, once you started learning, did you learn quickly that it did?

8:28 Speaker 3: It comes It's become like an addiction. It become like I just I love doing it. I don't even know why. Yeah, maybe maybe it was escapism.

8:35 Speaker 2: I don't know.

8:36 Speaker 3: It was just something to bury into. And I'm not I'm not an overly emotional person. But with the guitar, with the with the guitar. I'm me writing it. It's like that's my way of getting it out. Yeah, I don't know, it's.

8:50 Speaker 1: That that makes sense, No, absolutely, because I think a lot of creative people I think you know, and obviously we talk to creative people all the time on the show, and I think that we tend to When I say we, I mean we who are are creative in some way. I think that's that is how we tend to express ourselves. And maybe some of us, maybe not, might not be so good at expressing or emoting you know, emotions and feelings just in our everyday lives in terms of dealing with people interpersonally, but it comes out through our art.

9:22 Speaker 1: That's that's where we tend to channel it, channel it through. So that makes a lot of sense. And you know, use the word therapy, I mean music, you know, creating anything, whether it's music or visual art or whatever it is that you're creating. I think that is the best therapy because that's a way to kind of work things out and express things and and you know, kind of show everyone what you're feeling and what you're thinking and and.

9:43 Speaker 3: Then yeah, that's the beauty of art, isn't it. Matter like you just hit the nail on the head as you say. It's an expression.

9:51 Speaker 2: Isn't it.

9:52 Speaker 3: And the beauty of art is I can express and say a song form people are listening to it and they'll take their own expression out of it. Yes, It's like that's what kind of makes are cool. Yeah, So I definitely love that side, and it's something when I first got into I never really considered that I've.

10:13 Speaker 2: Just done it sort of naturally.

10:16 Speaker 3: And then over the years you just kind of learn these things that you learn about yourself through your songwriting. Because I always say, when you start writing the song, you might have an idea or an emotional or something, but you have no idea what's about to come out, right, You don't have no idea what you're about to write. And then, like with Piecing Sound, I come out of no Way twenty minutes later some Saturday with this song that went on to become what I sort of classes are first release. Yes, you just you have no idea that that's where it's going.

10:48 Speaker 3: And that's what I love about it. It's creating something out and nothing.

10:51 Speaker 2: Yeah.

10:52 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of an adventure. You don't know how it's going to end up and when you bring when you bring other people to into the process, like your guitar player, who came up with that that riff that is so central to that song? And then it's like, wow, Okay, I didn't I wasn't expecting that, but it's it's amazing and that that you know, that really helps.

11:10 Speaker 3: It helps massively, not just in the same terms of like, so the creation of the song then becomes a big, bigger and better because there's more influence. But also from a personal point of view, when it comes to performing the song or talking about the song, I don't have as much ego because I know it's not all me. In the past, when you talk about your music, you always feel a bit egotistical talking about your art because oh, it's it's all.

11:40 Speaker 2: Me and look how good I am and all that. It just comes across the bit. Yeah exactly, it just comes across a bit ego.

11:48 Speaker 3: But because all the band have helped and shape the song, I feel like I can perform it and talk about it with less weight.

11:56 Speaker 2: It's like it's more freeom That makes sense, Yeah, enjoy that side of it.

12:01 Speaker 1: That makes sense. It sounds like collaboration is very important to you, I don't know. I mean, am I am I right about that? Is it? Is it really important? Because you know some artists. To some artists it's kind of the opposite. Some don't want to let anybody in, you know what I mean, And that's that's fine too. You know somebody who just says a solo acoustic thing, for example, and maybe they don't want to work with other people. Maybe they just want to write their songs and play their songs and that's it.

12:25 Speaker 1: But it sounds like to you collaboration is really important.

12:29 Speaker 3: I think it's a balance. For me, I think, well that's where it. Obviously life changes constantly and so does your mindset. But for me at the minute, it's a balance. So I love having the final say I would. I'd admit that. I like being the one who says that. Ways that doesn't I do like having that sort of.

12:46 Speaker 2: Control, if you will.

12:47 Speaker 3: Yeah, But I also love saying to the lads, I don't want to tell you what to play, just feel feel the music, feel emotion and to be playing something, and I'll and I'll say no to be honest, I don't like that, or you'll do something to go wow, play that again. Can you maybe change it a little bit? Or and it's collaborates like you say, it's working together, yeah, or I do like to try and have the last say what I think is the best sound or yeah, yeah, it's a balance balance on act.

13:20 Speaker 1: So I'm curious about the band dynamic because you you know online you you basically you know, you sort of prevent present I should say, as a as a solo artist. But but you have a band that that records with you and and uh and plays live shows with you, I assume, right, And I assume it's the same people in the studio who also play with you live.

13:44 Speaker 2: Yes and no, so we do.

13:46 Speaker 3: We do have a set band, but it's already changed twice. Oh and we've only been We've only been going like three months. So part of the reasons sticking with the Jamie Higgs is my name in Liverpool was doing well at the time.

14:03 Speaker 2: I think Me and Me Instagram was getting like nearly half.

14:06 Speaker 3: A million yews a month, So it didn't make sense to change the name at the time, right, right, because you'd lose lose that momentum. And then I think over the last few months it kind of seems like a good decision because we've been changing band members and stuff.

14:24 Speaker 2: I really want a band name. I just wanted to be a step band.

14:30 Speaker 3: So we're everyone's invested in it, where at the minute it's like it's a it's a little bit of than that.

14:38 Speaker 2: But we're doing good. But we're all great players. It's just everyone's very busy.

14:43 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we're just I think the idea is to get like seven band members and there'll always be someone who can't can't make it until we get until we get to a point where people don't want to miss out.

15:01 Speaker 2: Yeah, if that makes sense.

15:03 Speaker 3: I always hate talking about this side. It was the side of the music and people don't really expose. But once you've made it, everyone obviously wants to be involved. Oh yeah, clamb and of that clamor of that ladder. It's it's obviously hard to get people to commit two nights a week and traveling to places where you're not gonna make much money, probably gonna cost more money to go and play the gig dinner is to make. So it's trying to find that level of quality players and commitment. I think that's the hardest bit of the band industry.

15:35 Speaker 1: I know, I know that pain. I don't play anymore, but I've played in a lot of bands and over the years, and yeah, the hardest part to me is exactly what you described. It's like, you know, if you're in a band with three other people or four other people, and and it's you know, everybody's got a different level. You know, hopefully the levels are close, but everyone has their own level of commitment that they're able to bring or willing to bring, and maybe different goals and aspirations you might have.

16:07 Speaker 1: You know, you might have someone in the band who says, I want to take this as far as it can possibly go, and you might have someone else in the band who feels more like, no, this is a hobby for me. I know, I know this isn't going anywhere. I'm just doing this for fun. You know, there's all kinds of dynamics that can play there, and that can be really challenging trying to navigate that, especially when not everyone's moving in the same direction. And there's also drama that can happen too. But what I think a lot of people don't realize is, you know, for it not to work out, it doesn't have to be about drama.

16:34 Speaker 1: It's not always about drama. Sometimes it's just a matter of different people have different priorities and that can be really hard.

16:41 Speaker 3: No, absolutely, like you sum that up very well there, and just as an example. So we had a bit of a band meeting and a rehearsal on Wednesday. We address the issues and there's absolutely zero bad feeling in the band. Everyone understands what I was saying. Yeah, I am I love every I love everyone. I said something at the time, I appreciate everyone's time and effort up to this point. I was like, but I kind of need more. And that's not a knock on anyone, even from yourself. You've got a demand more from yourself and everyone around you.

17:15 Speaker 3: That's the only way to keep pushing up. And I said to the lads, what I'm going to do is because I didn't want to do it behind anyone's back, is I'm going to get a few new band members into trials because it doesn't mean anyone's going to.

17:26 Speaker 2: Be pushed out. I was like, but it's kind of my way.

17:29 Speaker 3: I'm putting a bit of pressure on your toes to see how you react, and.

17:33 Speaker 2: If someone else comes in who was willing to.

17:36 Speaker 3: Push more, then that's when it might be thanks for your time, but someone else is willing to do more.

17:44 Speaker 2: And it's just it.

17:45 Speaker 3: It sounds like a brutal side of it, but again, there was no bad feelings.

17:48 Speaker 2: Everyone understood. Everyone's still happy, and that's good. It was.

17:51 Speaker 3: It was just a conversation that needs to be hard because I love where we've got.

17:55 Speaker 2: To for now. But obviously I'm pushing to me, I'd love to be number one in the world at some point.

18:01 Speaker 3: I'm not saying I'll ever be there, but if you don't push for that, then you're never going to get as high as you can.

18:07 Speaker 1: Right exactly, did you have anxiety going into that, because that would be that that's the kind of thing that would would make me nervous, like because I'm the kind of person, whether it's personally or professionally, I dread having to risk hurting anyone's feelings. I I and and you know, obviously you go into it not with the idea that it's a confrontation, but just a very mature You're going to express this in a mature, professional manner and with positivity.

18:38 Speaker 2: But you did.

18:38 Speaker 1: There's that little thing there where you don't know how everyone's going to necessarily react, right, I would be anxious doing that. Were you anxious doing that?

18:47 Speaker 3: I suppose I understand what you're saying. And it wasn't like a conversation I was looking forward to. It wasn't something that yeah I was excited excited about doing. Yeah, well I wasn't. I wasn't dreaded it because I thought it was a conversation that needed to be had. So it was like, like, I've always played football or soccer, as you might say, I've always played that for my whole life. So I use it as a conference a conference speak. I use it as a constant reference point. So playing football, I was the captain for my team for like ten years, so there's loads of times when we had to have serious conversations, and there's times when you have to question people's commitment levels and output levels.

19:34 Speaker 2: And it's not a slight at anyone.

19:36 Speaker 3: It's not trying to put anyone down. It's demand them more. And I unfortunately, like music is a business and it's something that you want to achieve it and be successful as much as it's fun and we enjoy it and we love it, I want to play to the biggest crowds and to the biggest radio stations in the world if we can. And the only way to sort of have that ambition and is that the man more of myself and everyone else around me. So it was just one of them conversations I felt needed to be hard. I've done it in the best way I could, sure, calm and as pleasurable as you can make it.

20:14 Speaker 3: And I think the lads took it well. Everyone was Everyone understood what I was saying, and yeah, everyone was happy. We still then jammed and enjoyed our session. And yeah, we'll just I said to them, in two weeks time, it could still be all us and everyone's just leveled up and took what I said on board.

20:33 Speaker 2: But we could have a different drummer or a different guitar. I don't know. But it was just something that needed to happen.

20:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like your background too as a team captain really really helps you out there. You know, it's funny too, because it's not something that someone would necessarily expect would translate, but you know that having that skill set, but but but it clearly does, and that's that's great. But it makes sense too because this is a very you know, the music industry is very competitive. You know, sports is competitive, and the music industry is very competitive, and you know, yeah.

21:09 Speaker 2: Not one hundred percent agree with you.

21:10 Speaker 3: I actually had this little conversation to myself, like going into Wednesday night, so I was like, I never thought like the football stuff would translations to the music stuff as much because it's.

21:22 Speaker 2: In my head.

21:22 Speaker 3: I keep saying, I'm trying to build a team of like photographers videographers. So we've got like the Peace and Love Project, which a project based on the purely do loads of videography and photography for artists, and we have them helping us outloads. And we've got Liam Gerrards and Louisy Neighbor who's helping like manage and promoters at the minute.

21:42 Speaker 2: And then there's people he knows like Shell and Lee and stuff like that.

21:47 Speaker 3: And then Gary from the PR team who's probably organized this. Like, we've had loads of people helping us, and that's what a love like. Maybe you're right when you're saying earlier about the collaboration stuff. I know for a fact I couldn't achieve it on the own. Yeah, there's no there's absolutely no way. So I'm trying to build a big team and a good team. You all want to achieve something.

22:12 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, exactly.

22:14 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say it's just funny how it sounds like through the football because you want to win your league, you want to win the cup.

22:19 Speaker 2: Or if it all comes in with the drive and yeah, to win mentality.

22:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh no, no, So what's kind of the future? So speaking of that, So what's what's the future? Uh trajectory here? What's what's your plan? Because you obviously you approach this uh seriously, and and I assume that you've got strategies and and so forth in terms of how you're proceeding. You're you're you're clearly not someone who just throws it all against the wall and sees what sticks, which is what a lot of musicians do, which is which is fine. But but I sense that you've probably got a pretty clear strategy going forward.

22:55 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I do.

22:59 Speaker 3: But I get I think it's about you think sometimes because it is art at the end of the day, you never want to lose that side of it, So you do need to just throw some stuff at the wall and see what sticks. But at the same time, it's been sort of savvy enough to understand what is sticking. Like there's no point in just keep on throwing stuff. You kind of see what sticks and like work with some of that stuff as well as adding to it and having a direction. So we in my head it's like a two year plan, yeah, which again I understand because the art and this is very easy going and sort of creative freedom, which I love.

23:38 Speaker 3: I still like the side of it, yeah, because I do have the ambition of I want to achieve something. I've set myself like a two year plan to go with the creative side of it, and I'm hoping that's what helps us. So I know what we've got come up in a couple of months, I know what one plan for next year, and I know what we're a one be in two years time, whether all that comes together, whether it changes on the way, which I imagine at all will I'm expecting for that.

24:09 Speaker 2: We have an old saying name.

24:11 Speaker 3: Prepare for the waste, hope for the best, yeap, and like that's kind of way mentality is.

24:17 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, And it's important to plan, but it's also important to be flexible and be able to adapt and and you know, to kind of be limber with that. Is it hard, by the way, balancing that you mentioned you have you have two kids?

24:28 Speaker 2: Right? Yeah?

24:29 Speaker 1: Is it hard balancing all of that? Which I mean we talked a little bit about it earlier, and that's kind of where a piece in your sound comes from.

24:34 Speaker 3: Right.

24:34 Speaker 1: But I mean, like, are your kids, I don't know how old they are, Like do they understand what you do and that you create music and and and why it's important to you and all that? And I'm curious too, while we're at it, do they have any musical Do you see any musical inclinations from them? You know, they do they show any interest in maybe picking up an instrument. I assume they're very young because you're a young guy. But but I'm curious about that dynamic.

25:01 Speaker 3: Well, obviously i've been lying ever said it was easy. Anyone who's got a family will tell you that's hard in itself.

25:09 Speaker 2: It's a it's a constant battle. Kids just don't.

25:14 Speaker 3: Want to do is he's told. But that's I love him. That, that honestly the absolute inspiration in my life. Good me little boy, kay, And he's four. And then I've got a little girl, Rosabella who's six months.

25:26 Speaker 1: Okay, Oh, wow.

25:27 Speaker 2: So she's still very young. But me, little boy loves it. He loves the music. He loves piecing your sound good.

25:33 Speaker 3: He's got a little guitar and he's a stand in the living room like piece yourself.

25:40 Speaker 2: He loves it. Yeah, And obviously there's not a more half and I was than seeing that. Yeah.

25:47 Speaker 3: But the juggle of family life and the music life is it's it's my biggest challenge in life definitely. But way I'm kind of fortunate is because I do sing them for the living, so I gig in.

26:02 Speaker 2: The bars around Liverpool City Center.

26:06 Speaker 3: So music is my lifestyle, which kind of makes it that bit easier because if you're waken a regular Monday to Friday or regular job, to then find time to do music, I think will be harder because I'm already so I'm going to be out gigging in a few hours, so excellent. So I'm classing this is a way time. So I've come to the studio because we have a rehearsal room, so I've come here to do if it's like have an office and that helps me will be balanced. And then my wife Tasha, she obviously she's very supportive and has to deal with a lot of late lights and.

26:51 Speaker 2: Me and the lad are going to practice tonight, so to bed on your own.

26:56 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but you have a supportive partner and that's that helps tremendously with any anything.

27:03 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, God bless you, she puts it with a laugh.

27:07 Speaker 1: Absolutely well, very good in a moment. Well, we'll let you go in a moment, Jamie. You've been very generous with your time. But I also want to play at the end of our conversation, I want to play this song unconditional. And this actually came out now, this came out a couple of years ago, right, Yeah, this is this is another great song. Jenny and I both love this. Is there anything you can tell us about this about this song?

27:30 Speaker 2: Absolutely I can yet. So this was.

27:34 Speaker 3: I think it's probably the most emotional song I'll ever write, because it just the family were going through such a difficult time and we had just lost my granddad, which.

27:48 Speaker 2: That wasn't like a big deal.

27:49 Speaker 3: He was getting on so we can't of it wasn't I was in no ways everything but me uncle that kind of stopped speaking to his dad and when he passed away, to break down because instant regrets or not like making making up when they had the chance, and it had just felt a bit of a ripple effect through the family. And then there was a lot of other emotional things going on in the family at the time, which I won't go into too much, but I just can't remember the time thinking, Wow, everyone falls out with people that they love.

28:23 Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, when the crunch comes to it, once they're gone, and you realize that love was always still late. It never went. You might stop talking, or you might push away and whatever else, but whether you like to admit it or not, you'll always love the people that you've loved your family, right That the big one for me his family. I used to always joke saying about there's someone a new who was like the coaches persions and then was the dog. But if they absolutely loved the dog, and it was like that unconditional lovely no matter what happens, if you kind of realize that love is unconditional, and once you kind of experience it, it's like an ex partner.

29:06 Speaker 3: You could break up with your ex partner, but there'll always be a part of you that I'll have love for that ex panner for the time that you spend together on what you went through, of.

29:14 Speaker 2: Course if it was real love.

29:17 Speaker 3: Obviously, And yeah, it just comes from so many different emotions into one song. And again it was another one of them where I had had the code progression for years years. I had wrote like two or three different songs to it and never liked any of them. And then this one just kind of come out of nowhere in like a sort of heartfled like way. And then yeah, it was kind of people around me who wanted me to release that more than meself.

29:45 Speaker 1: Wow.

29:46 Speaker 3: So I think it's one of them where my family all love it and it'll always be something to them.

29:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's it's it's a beautiful song.

29:55 Speaker 2: Beautiful thank you. I appreciate that absolutely.

29:58 Speaker 1: And before we do that, Jamie, before we let you go, where should people go online? Where's the best place for people to go online? To keep up with everything that Jamie Higgs is doing.

30:08 Speaker 3: Instagram's meets sources of main use for social media, That's what I kind of use.

30:13 Speaker 2: I try and go on that daily. I'm trying to build.

30:16 Speaker 3: Me TikTok because everyone says TikTok's the way to go now that's right.

30:21 Speaker 2: I'm trying to use that more.

30:23 Speaker 3: I think TikTok's a little bit more cringey, and that's what It just takes a bit of get used to that.

30:27 Speaker 2: Yeah.

30:29 Speaker 1: Well, you know, you know here in America too, there's always politicians threatening to take it away from us. They haven't done it yet.

30:37 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's just it's a weird one of TikTok it because the whole China gets this whole China connection and everyone.

30:44 Speaker 2: Else to the sort of yeah, yeah, yeah, the opinions on that. But we won't open that.

30:49 Speaker 1: Though, No, no, that's a big door to open. But but yeah, so so Instagram is the main the main.

30:55 Speaker 2: Place I would say, so yeah, so yeah.

30:58 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, very good Jamie. Listen. It's been wonderful speaking with you, and we'll definitely do this again in the future as you're releasing new music. Well, we'll have you back. Certainly. Love what you're doing. And uh and you said you've got a show tonight, right.

31:12 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got three tonight and then I'm doing a special guest appearance as well as studio oh tonight.

31:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, you got a busy night ahead of you. That's great.

31:24 Speaker 3: Absolutely off mart Yeah, yeah, good. But I'd also like to say things I've really enjoyed. This has probably been the best one I've done, so oh absolutely absolutely.

31:31 Speaker 2: Credit means I've enjoyed this.

31:32 Speaker 1: Oh, thank you, Jamie. I appreciate that. I appreciate that very very much. We love to hear that. All right, Well, we will let you go, my friend. I'm gonna hit that track Unconditional, and then I'm probably gonna sneak in piece in your sound one more time too for people who are just joining us. Sometimes I cheat it. Sometimes I cheat a little bit. If I really love a song, I'll sneak it in a second time in the hour, because why not. But thank you, thank you again Jamie so much, and we will talk to you soon.

31:56 Speaker 1: I'm sure.

31:57 Speaker 2: Absolute pleasure. Thanks Steven, Jenny appreciate it.

31:59 Speaker 1: You got it all right, Take care bye bye.

32:01 Speaker 2: Much love may take care. Thank you, you got it all right, wonderful.

32:05 Speaker 1: That was the great Jamie Higgs really enjoyed our conversation. And let's play this song again. This is called Unconditional. This is such a beautiful song. Jenny and I both love this. And then we're also going to play a piece in your sound again too. Another just such a great track. So and look forward to watching his career as it continues to evolve. But he's doing great stuff.

32:24 Speaker 2: But here it is.

32:24 Speaker 1: This is Unconditional by Jamie Higgs