Jamie Higgs | Matt Connarton Unleashed

0:00 Speaker 1: I love that song so much. That is piece in

0:02 Speaker 1: your sound. That is Jamie Higgs, and I believe we

0:05 Speaker 1: have Jamie Higgs with us via WhatsApp. Jamie, are you there?

0:08 Speaker 2: I am indeed hems hey.

0:10 Speaker 1: Welcome to the program. I've been really looking forward to

0:12 Speaker 1: talking with you. I do love that song so much.

0:16 Speaker 1: The first time I listened to it, it was stuck

0:18 Speaker 1: in my head just I could not could not get

0:20 Speaker 1: it out of my brain. Jenny loves it too. What

0:22 Speaker 1: a what a great track that is. Congratulations on that.

0:25 Speaker 1: Is that your newest single?

0:28 Speaker 3: It well, firstly, thank you very much to really appreciate

0:30 Speaker 3: that feedback.

0:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, nice to hear. And yet that's our laser's release.

0:35 Speaker 3: So it was actually the face single pro out in

0:39 Speaker 3: two years. Okay, and it's only asked like my personal

0:43 Speaker 3: second ever single. It's our face as a band.

0:47 Speaker 1: Oh okay.

0:49 Speaker 2: It's like a new beginning, right right. That's yeah.

0:52 Speaker 1: By the way, So I saw something you said in

0:55 Speaker 1: an interview about that that song. Is this correct that

0:58 Speaker 1: that song only took twenty minutes to write It came

1:00 Speaker 1: together really fast?

1:02 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It's a very very simple song. It's

1:05 Speaker 2: like three chordes. It literally just.

1:09 Speaker 3: I think I was listening to a Dire Street song

1:11 Speaker 3: and it was about the melody. Even they had a

1:13 Speaker 3: lot more complex complex with their music. Was very it's

1:17 Speaker 3: just a nice melody. And then I was just pressing

1:20 Speaker 3: about with these chordes, and funny enough, I was in

1:23 Speaker 3: a rush. We had somewhere to be and I just

1:27 Speaker 3: come up with this line of piecing your sound. And

1:31 Speaker 3: I was like that to my wife, was that you're

1:32 Speaker 3: gonna have to wait, just give me a minute, because.

1:34 Speaker 2: You always onto.

1:35 Speaker 3: I was like, you just feel the energy. I was

1:37 Speaker 3: onto something and I just had to finish writing this song.

1:40 Speaker 3: And then I made a note in my phone with

1:43 Speaker 3: the lyrics. We got in the car, and then I

1:45 Speaker 3: made a voice notes singing like the full track as

1:48 Speaker 3: a melody, just a cappellad in the car, and I

1:50 Speaker 3: was like a song formed.

1:52 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, i's till you know you've got something though

1:54 Speaker 1: that when when it's when it's easy, right, when it

1:57 Speaker 1: just kind of comes to you quickly but it's good,

2:00 Speaker 1: then you know you've got something really good because you

2:02 Speaker 1: didn't have to force it. It was just natural. It

2:04 Speaker 1: just kind of you know, manifests in your brain or

2:07 Speaker 1: however it works, you know, whatever your process is for

2:10 Speaker 1: coming up with something like that. No, it's it's really good.

2:13 Speaker 2: And thank you very much.

2:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it is kind of simple, right in

2:16 Speaker 1: terms of the chords, and you know what they say,

2:18 Speaker 1: three chords and the truth. But but what you take

2:22 Speaker 1: and then do with that, that's what counts. And I

2:24 Speaker 1: love the lyrics, and can you talk to us a

2:28 Speaker 1: little bit about the lyrics.

2:29 Speaker 2: It seems like.

2:30 Speaker 1: It's kind of about finding like sort of finding peace

2:33 Speaker 1: in the chaos of life. That's sort of what I

2:36 Speaker 1: took from it. Am I am? I on the right.

2:38 Speaker 2: Track, absolutely right. Yeah. So it's.

2:42 Speaker 3: So I'm married with two kids, which is chaos in itself,

2:47 Speaker 3: and then obviously a gig like three or four nights

2:50 Speaker 3: a week, and the music scenes very chaotic. Yeah, so

2:54 Speaker 3: I found then obviously with your friends and your social life,

2:57 Speaker 3: I just found life is very loud and chaotic all

3:00 Speaker 3: the time, it seems, yes, and sometimes it can kind of.

3:04 Speaker 2: Get you down because you feel like you don't have

3:05 Speaker 2: a minute to breathe.

3:07 Speaker 3: And then in the moments of writing that song, I

3:10 Speaker 3: was like, I love my life even though it's very

3:15 Speaker 3: crazy and loud, It's amazing.

3:19 Speaker 2: I'm surrounded by amazing people. I loved me job of singing.

3:23 Speaker 3: I was like, my piece is in the sound because

3:26 Speaker 3: I know people who don't have a lot going on

3:28 Speaker 3: for themselves and then spending a lot of time on

3:31 Speaker 3: their own actually struggle with depression and everything else.

3:34 Speaker 2: So it's actually being busy and.

3:36 Speaker 3: Having a loud life. That's where the piece is. So

3:39 Speaker 3: it's kind of based around that.

3:42 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I like that. That really connects with me.

3:44 Speaker 1: And I think that's something too that's relatable for a

3:46 Speaker 1: lot of people. You know, even if you have you know,

3:48 Speaker 1: you might have a lot of great things going on

3:50 Speaker 1: and things are very very busy, but you know, you

3:53 Speaker 1: can get overwhelmed. Even when life is really really good,

3:56 Speaker 1: you can get get overwhelmed. And sometimes you have to

3:58 Speaker 1: be able to stop and take and all the good

4:00 Speaker 1: things that you have. And you know, and and you know, uh,

4:03 Speaker 1: in America, we talk a lot about gratitude and you know,

4:05 Speaker 1: you'll hear motivational speakers talk a lot about that stuff

4:08 Speaker 1: and yeah, you know, but but it but it really

4:10 Speaker 1: is important and you know, and and to be able

4:13 Speaker 1: to find piece in the chaos. And no, I love

4:15 Speaker 1: that song. It's very very catchy too, are you. I'm

4:18 Speaker 1: curious about your influences because obviously, like I think a

4:22 Speaker 1: little bit about Oasis when I hear that song that

4:24 Speaker 1: sounds like something that might have been might have fit

4:27 Speaker 1: well on definitely maybe for example, I'm a big Oasis fan.

4:31 Speaker 1: But I'm curious to know more about your influences. I

4:34 Speaker 1: assume you've taken something from the Gallagher brothers, but but

4:37 Speaker 1: probably a lot more than that too, So I'm curious

4:39 Speaker 1: about your influences.

4:41 Speaker 2: Yeah, so.

4:44 Speaker 3: I think as a guitarist ever and a similar sort

4:47 Speaker 3: of influencers. So when you think like singer songwriter, so

4:51 Speaker 3: you've got like your songs of you Bob Dylan's and

4:53 Speaker 3: your Bruce Springsteen's and even like more modern times with

4:56 Speaker 3: your ed Sheen and stuff.

4:57 Speaker 2: I know Edging's a lot considered a lot more pop.

5:00 Speaker 3: But if you played guitar in the last decade, you've

5:04 Speaker 3: took inspiration from Edgy and you have to sure.

5:08 Speaker 2: And then I think, obviously I love David Gray.

5:12 Speaker 3: I'm not sure how big David Gray is in America,

5:14 Speaker 3: but he'd done an album called the White Ladder Album.

5:17 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he was, he was. He was really big

5:19 Speaker 1: here at one point. Yeah, David Gray, Yeah.

5:21 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think I think he peaked with that album.

5:23 Speaker 3: It was in like the nineties, but like that that

5:26 Speaker 3: inspired so much to me writing for a long time,

5:30 Speaker 3: and then I got more into the band stuff. So

5:33 Speaker 3: maybe like a band called the Kooks, who like a

5:35 Speaker 3: big British band. Then you've got obviously your Oasis and

5:39 Speaker 3: Beatles and everyone else.

5:40 Speaker 2: And I think I've tried.

5:42 Speaker 3: To take the singer song right, sort of heart filled lyrics,

5:49 Speaker 3: but put it with like a sort of indie pop

5:53 Speaker 3: music try and try and made them too.

5:57 Speaker 2: I don't know. I guess that's the way I kind

5:58 Speaker 2: of look at it.

6:00 Speaker 1: That makes sense.

6:01 Speaker 3: I think I have to give like, for this song,

6:03 Speaker 3: we have to give big credit to my guitarist, Eddie Ponting,

6:06 Speaker 3: because I loved what I wrote and I love the song,

6:10 Speaker 3: but because of the simplicity of it, I couldn't seem to.

6:14 Speaker 2: Fall in love with it, if that makes sense.

6:17 Speaker 3: And then we were jamming in the room and he'd

6:20 Speaker 3: just done that riff that down't down, and when he

6:25 Speaker 3: done that, it was like love a face sight. As

6:28 Speaker 3: soon as he'd done that, I was like, that's what

6:30 Speaker 3: makes the song. That's what gives it, like the full feel,

6:34 Speaker 3: that's what's going to help sell it. So that was

6:37 Speaker 3: a big part of the inspiration for the song is.

6:40 Speaker 1: I was also reading that you you started guitar playing

6:44 Speaker 1: kind of lay, you know, in contrast with most people.

6:46 Speaker 1: I mean, there is no right age to Obviously, the

6:49 Speaker 1: younger you are, the more you know. In terms of research,

6:52 Speaker 1: they say that the brain can absorb information quicker when

6:55 Speaker 1: you're younger. So if you start an instrument, just like

6:57 Speaker 1: learning a language, the younger you start the better in theory.

7:00 Speaker 1: But you started when you were nineteen, Is that correct?

7:02 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I like you, Matt. You've done the research.

7:05 Speaker 2: You like this?

7:05 Speaker 1: Oh I try, I try.

7:09 Speaker 2: It's good that I like her.

7:11 Speaker 1: What was it that made you start at nineteen? What

7:14 Speaker 1: was it that inspired you to start learning guitar? Or

7:17 Speaker 1: maybe it just kind of happened organically.

7:19 Speaker 2: I don't know, but it was.

7:23 Speaker 3: I'd met a couple of new friends at like eighteen,

7:25 Speaker 3: I got me faced job, I was wearing the suits.

7:29 Speaker 3: It I was like, I felt like a man at

7:31 Speaker 3: eighteen with working with men and everything else. And I

7:35 Speaker 3: met a few older lads and they roll into different

7:38 Speaker 3: genres of music and just different things in life in general.

7:43 Speaker 3: And we would at a house party and one of

7:45 Speaker 3: them was just playing a guitar and I just, I

7:47 Speaker 3: don't know, I just seen it. Yeah, that that line again,

7:52 Speaker 3: love face sight. When I seen it, I was like,

7:53 Speaker 3: that just looks cool. It sounds amazing. So then I

7:57 Speaker 3: just kind of saw his name was Michael. He always

8:00 Speaker 3: moans that I don't mention.

8:01 Speaker 2: Him, Okay, so give him his little showers.

8:04 Speaker 3: But yeah, just something about it. I'd never really grew

8:08 Speaker 3: up around that type of music. Yeah, so I always

8:12 Speaker 3: joke saying I grew up in like a ghetto. So

8:15 Speaker 3: it was like I didn't see a lot of it,

8:17 Speaker 3: and then once I kind of discovered it, I just

8:19 Speaker 3: loved it. Yeah.

8:20 Speaker 1: Yeah, I assume because it sounds like you were pretty motivated,

8:24 Speaker 1: like once you started, once you started learning, did you

8:27 Speaker 1: learn quickly that it did?

8:28 Speaker 3: It comes It's become like an addiction. It become like

8:31 Speaker 3: I just I love doing it. I don't even know why. Yeah,

8:34 Speaker 3: maybe maybe it was escapism.

8:35 Speaker 2: I don't know.

8:36 Speaker 3: It was just something to bury into. And I'm not

8:39 Speaker 3: I'm not an overly emotional person. But with the guitar,

8:42 Speaker 3: with the with the guitar. I'm me writing it. It's

8:45 Speaker 3: like that's my way of getting it out. Yeah, I

8:48 Speaker 3: don't know, it's.

8:50 Speaker 1: That that makes sense, No, absolutely, because I think a

8:52 Speaker 1: lot of creative people I think you know, and obviously

8:55 Speaker 1: we talk to creative people all the time on the show,

8:57 Speaker 1: and I think that we tend to When I say we,

9:01 Speaker 1: I mean we who are are creative in some way.

9:04 Speaker 1: I think that's that is how we tend to express ourselves.

9:07 Speaker 1: And maybe some of us, maybe not, might not be

9:10 Speaker 1: so good at expressing or emoting you know, emotions and

9:14 Speaker 1: feelings just in our everyday lives in terms of dealing

9:18 Speaker 1: with people interpersonally, but it comes out through our art.

9:22 Speaker 1: That's that's where we tend to channel it, channel it through.

9:25 Speaker 1: So that makes a lot of sense. And you know,

9:27 Speaker 1: use the word therapy, I mean music, you know, creating anything,

9:30 Speaker 1: whether it's music or visual art or whatever it is

9:33 Speaker 1: that you're creating. I think that is the best therapy

9:35 Speaker 1: because that's a way to kind of work things out

9:37 Speaker 1: and express things and and you know, kind of show

9:40 Speaker 1: everyone what you're feeling and what you're thinking and and.

9:43 Speaker 3: Then yeah, that's the beauty of art, isn't it. Matter

9:46 Speaker 3: like you just hit the nail on the head as

9:47 Speaker 3: you say. It's an expression.

9:51 Speaker 2: Isn't it.

9:52 Speaker 3: And the beauty of art is I can express and

9:57 Speaker 3: say a song form people are listening to it and

10:01 Speaker 3: they'll take their own expression out of it. Yes, It's

10:05 Speaker 3: like that's what kind of makes are cool. Yeah, So

10:09 Speaker 3: I definitely love that side, and it's something when I

10:11 Speaker 3: first got into I never really considered that I've.

10:13 Speaker 2: Just done it sort of naturally.

10:16 Speaker 3: And then over the years you just kind of learn

10:20 Speaker 3: these things that you learn about yourself through your songwriting.

10:22 Speaker 3: Because I always say, when you start writing the song,

10:25 Speaker 3: you might have an idea or an emotional or something,

10:28 Speaker 3: but you have no idea what's about to come out, right,

10:32 Speaker 3: You don't have no idea what you're about to write.

10:34 Speaker 3: And then, like with Piecing Sound, I come out of

10:38 Speaker 3: no Way twenty minutes later some Saturday with this song

10:40 Speaker 3: that went on to become what I sort of classes

10:43 Speaker 3: are first release. Yes, you just you have no idea

10:47 Speaker 3: that that's where it's going. And that's what I love

10:49 Speaker 3: about it. It's creating something out and nothing.

10:51 Speaker 2: Yeah.

10:52 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of an adventure. You don't know how

10:53 Speaker 1: it's going to end up and when you bring when

10:55 Speaker 1: you bring other people to into the process, like your

10:56 Speaker 1: guitar player, who came up with that that riff that

10:59 Speaker 1: is so central to that song? And then it's like, wow, Okay,

11:03 Speaker 1: I didn't I wasn't expecting that, but it's it's amazing

11:06 Speaker 1: and that that you know, that really helps.

11:10 Speaker 3: It helps massively, not just in the same terms of like,

11:13 Speaker 3: so the creation of the song then becomes a big,

11:16 Speaker 3: bigger and better because there's more influence. But also from

11:20 Speaker 3: a personal point of view, when it comes to performing

11:23 Speaker 3: the song or talking about the song, I don't have

11:26 Speaker 3: as much ego because I know it's not all me.

11:31 Speaker 3: In the past, when you talk about your music, you

11:33 Speaker 3: always feel a bit egotistical talking about your art because oh,

11:40 Speaker 3: it's it's all.

11:40 Speaker 2: Me and look how good I am and all that.

11:43 Speaker 2: It just comes across the bit. Yeah exactly, it just

11:45 Speaker 2: comes across a bit ego.

11:48 Speaker 3: But because all the band have helped and shape the song,

11:52 Speaker 3: I feel like I can perform it and talk about

11:54 Speaker 3: it with less weight.

11:56 Speaker 2: It's like it's more freeom That makes sense, Yeah, enjoy

12:00 Speaker 2: that side of it.

12:01 Speaker 1: That makes sense. It sounds like collaboration is very important

12:03 Speaker 1: to you, I don't know. I mean, am I am

12:07 Speaker 1: I right about that? Is it? Is it really important?

12:10 Speaker 1: Because you know some artists. To some artists it's kind

12:12 Speaker 1: of the opposite. Some don't want to let anybody in,

12:15 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, And that's that's fine too.

12:18 Speaker 1: You know somebody who just says a solo acoustic thing,

12:20 Speaker 1: for example, and maybe they don't want to work with

12:21 Speaker 1: other people. Maybe they just want to write their songs

12:23 Speaker 1: and play their songs and that's it. But it sounds

12:26 Speaker 1: like to you collaboration is really important.

12:29 Speaker 3: I think it's a balance. For me, I think, well

12:32 Speaker 3: that's where it. Obviously life changes constantly and so does

12:34 Speaker 3: your mindset. But for me at the minute, it's a balance.

12:37 Speaker 3: So I love having the final say I would. I'd

12:40 Speaker 3: admit that. I like being the one who says that.

12:42 Speaker 3: Ways that doesn't I do like having that sort of.

12:46 Speaker 2: Control, if you will.

12:47 Speaker 3: Yeah, But I also love saying to the lads, I

12:51 Speaker 3: don't want to tell you what to play, just feel

12:55 Speaker 3: feel the music, feel emotion and to be playing something,

12:58 Speaker 3: and I'll and I'll say no to be honest, I

13:00 Speaker 3: don't like that, or you'll do something to go wow,

13:04 Speaker 3: play that again. Can you maybe change it a little bit?

13:07 Speaker 3: Or and it's collaborates like you say, it's working together, yeah,

13:10 Speaker 3: or I do like to try and have the last

13:13 Speaker 3: say what I think is the best sound or yeah, yeah,

13:18 Speaker 3: it's a balance balance on act.

13:20 Speaker 1: So I'm curious about the band dynamic because you you

13:26 Speaker 1: know online you you basically you know, you sort of

13:29 Speaker 1: prevent present I should say, as a as a solo artist.

13:32 Speaker 1: But but you have a band that that records with

13:34 Speaker 1: you and and uh and plays live shows with you,

13:37 Speaker 1: I assume, right, And I assume it's the same people

13:40 Speaker 1: in the studio who also play with you live.

13:44 Speaker 2: Yes and no, so we do.

13:46 Speaker 3: We do have a set band, but it's already changed twice.

13:52 Speaker 3: Oh and we've only been We've only been going like

13:54 Speaker 3: three months. So part of the reasons sticking with the

13:58 Speaker 3: Jamie Higgs is my name in Liverpool was doing well

14:02 Speaker 3: at the time.

14:03 Speaker 2: I think Me and Me Instagram was getting like nearly half.

14:06 Speaker 3: A million yews a month, So it didn't make sense

14:11 Speaker 3: to change the name at the time, right, right, because

14:14 Speaker 3: you'd lose lose that momentum. And then I think over

14:18 Speaker 3: the last few months it kind of seems like a

14:21 Speaker 3: good decision because we've been changing band members and stuff.

14:24 Speaker 2: I really want a band name. I just wanted to

14:27 Speaker 2: be a step band.

14:30 Speaker 3: So we're everyone's invested in it, where at the minute

14:35 Speaker 3: it's like it's a it's a little bit of than that.

14:38 Speaker 2: But we're doing good. But we're all great players. It's

14:41 Speaker 2: just everyone's very busy.

14:43 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we're just I think the idea is to

14:48 Speaker 3: get like seven band members and there'll always be someone

14:52 Speaker 3: who can't can't make it until we get until we

14:57 Speaker 3: get to a point where people don't want to miss out.

15:01 Speaker 2: Yeah, if that makes sense.

15:03 Speaker 3: I always hate talking about this side. It was the

15:04 Speaker 3: side of the music and people don't really expose. But

15:08 Speaker 3: once you've made it, everyone obviously wants to be involved.

15:11 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, clamb and of that clamor of that ladder.

15:14 Speaker 3: It's it's obviously hard to get people to commit two

15:18 Speaker 3: nights a week and traveling to places where you're not

15:21 Speaker 3: gonna make much money, probably gonna cost more money to

15:24 Speaker 3: go and play the gig dinner is to make. So

15:26 Speaker 3: it's trying to find that level of quality players and commitment.

15:32 Speaker 3: I think that's the hardest bit of the band industry.

15:35 Speaker 1: I know, I know that pain. I don't play anymore,

15:37 Speaker 1: but I've played in a lot of bands and over

15:41 Speaker 1: the years, and yeah, the hardest part to me is

15:45 Speaker 1: exactly what you described. It's like, you know, if you're

15:47 Speaker 1: in a band with three other people or four other people,

15:51 Speaker 1: and and it's you know, everybody's got a different level.

15:55 Speaker 1: You know, hopefully the levels are close, but everyone has

15:58 Speaker 1: their own level of commitment that they're able to bring

16:02 Speaker 1: or willing to bring, and maybe different goals and aspirations

16:06 Speaker 1: you might have. You know, you might have someone in

16:08 Speaker 1: the band who says, I want to take this as

16:10 Speaker 1: far as it can possibly go, and you might have

16:12 Speaker 1: someone else in the band who feels more like, no,

16:14 Speaker 1: this is a hobby for me. I know, I know

16:16 Speaker 1: this isn't going anywhere. I'm just doing this for fun.

16:18 Speaker 1: You know, there's all kinds of dynamics that can play there,

16:21 Speaker 1: and that can be really challenging trying to navigate that,

16:24 Speaker 1: especially when not everyone's moving in the same direction. And

16:27 Speaker 1: there's also drama that can happen too. But what I

16:29 Speaker 1: think a lot of people don't realize is, you know,

16:32 Speaker 1: for it not to work out, it doesn't have to

16:34 Speaker 1: be about drama. It's not always about drama. Sometimes it's

16:36 Speaker 1: just a matter of different people have different priorities and

16:40 Speaker 1: that can be really hard.

16:41 Speaker 3: No, absolutely, like you sum that up very well there,

16:44 Speaker 3: and just as an example. So we had a bit

16:46 Speaker 3: of a band meeting and a rehearsal on Wednesday. We

16:50 Speaker 3: address the issues and there's absolutely zero bad feeling in

16:54 Speaker 3: the band. Everyone understands what I was saying. Yeah, I

16:58 Speaker 3: am I love every I love everyone. I said something

17:01 Speaker 3: at the time, I appreciate everyone's time and effort up

17:03 Speaker 3: to this point. I was like, but I kind of

17:07 Speaker 3: need more. And that's not a knock on anyone, even

17:11 Speaker 3: from yourself. You've got a demand more from yourself and

17:13 Speaker 3: everyone around you. That's the only way to keep pushing up.

17:17 Speaker 3: And I said to the lads, what I'm going to

17:19 Speaker 3: do is because I didn't want to do it behind

17:21 Speaker 3: anyone's back, is I'm going to get a few new

17:23 Speaker 3: band members into trials because it doesn't mean anyone's going to.

17:26 Speaker 2: Be pushed out. I was like, but it's kind of

17:28 Speaker 2: my way.

17:29 Speaker 3: I'm putting a bit of pressure on your toes to

17:32 Speaker 3: see how you react, and.

17:33 Speaker 2: If someone else comes in who was willing to.

17:36 Speaker 3: Push more, then that's when it might be thanks for

17:41 Speaker 3: your time, but someone else is willing to do more.

17:44 Speaker 2: And it's just it.

17:45 Speaker 3: It sounds like a brutal side of it, but again,

17:47 Speaker 3: there was no bad feelings.

17:48 Speaker 2: Everyone understood. Everyone's still happy, and that's good. It was.

17:51 Speaker 3: It was just a conversation that needs to be hard

17:53 Speaker 3: because I love where we've got.

17:55 Speaker 2: To for now. But obviously I'm pushing to me, I'd

17:59 Speaker 2: love to be number one in the world at some point.

18:01 Speaker 3: I'm not saying I'll ever be there, but if you

18:03 Speaker 3: don't push for that, then you're never going to get

18:06 Speaker 3: as high as you can.

18:07 Speaker 1: Right exactly, did you have anxiety going into that, because

18:12 Speaker 1: that would be that that's the kind of thing that

18:14 Speaker 1: would would make me nervous, like because I'm the kind

18:19 Speaker 1: of person, whether it's personally or professionally, I dread having

18:23 Speaker 1: to risk hurting anyone's feelings. I I and and you know,

18:28 Speaker 1: obviously you go into it not with the idea that

18:31 Speaker 1: it's a confrontation, but just a very mature You're going

18:33 Speaker 1: to express this in a mature, professional manner and with positivity.

18:38 Speaker 2: But you did.

18:38 Speaker 1: There's that little thing there where you don't know how

18:41 Speaker 1: everyone's going to necessarily react, right, I would be anxious

18:44 Speaker 1: doing that. Were you anxious doing that?

18:47 Speaker 3: I suppose I understand what you're saying. And it wasn't

18:50 Speaker 3: like a conversation I was looking forward to. It wasn't

18:52 Speaker 3: something that yeah I was excited excited about doing. Yeah,

18:56 Speaker 3: well I wasn't. I wasn't dreaded it because I thought

19:00 Speaker 3: it was a conversation that needed to be had. So

19:03 Speaker 3: it was like, like, I've always played football or soccer,

19:08 Speaker 3: as you might say, I've always played that for my

19:10 Speaker 3: whole life. So I use it as a conference a

19:13 Speaker 3: conference speak. I use it as a constant reference point.

19:18 Speaker 3: So playing football, I was the captain for my team

19:21 Speaker 3: for like ten years, so there's loads of times when

19:25 Speaker 3: we had to have serious conversations, and there's times when

19:29 Speaker 3: you have to question people's commitment levels and output levels.

19:34 Speaker 2: And it's not a slight at anyone.

19:36 Speaker 3: It's not trying to put anyone down. It's demand them more.

19:41 Speaker 3: And I unfortunately, like music is a business and it's

19:45 Speaker 3: something that you want to achieve it and be successful

19:47 Speaker 3: as much as it's fun and we enjoy it and

19:49 Speaker 3: we love it, I want to play to the biggest

19:52 Speaker 3: crowds and to the biggest radio stations in the world

19:56 Speaker 3: if we can. And the only way to sort of

19:59 Speaker 3: have that ambition and is that the man more of

20:01 Speaker 3: myself and everyone else around me. So it was just

20:04 Speaker 3: one of them conversations I felt needed to be hard.

20:07 Speaker 3: I've done it in the best way I could, sure,

20:11 Speaker 3: calm and as pleasurable as you can make it. And

20:15 Speaker 3: I think the lads took it well. Everyone was Everyone

20:17 Speaker 3: understood what I was saying, and yeah, everyone was happy.

20:20 Speaker 3: We still then jammed and enjoyed our session. And yeah,

20:26 Speaker 3: we'll just I said to them, in two weeks time,

20:28 Speaker 3: it could still be all us and everyone's just leveled

20:31 Speaker 3: up and took what I said on board.

20:33 Speaker 2: But we could have a different drummer or a different guitar.

20:37 Speaker 2: I don't know. But it was just something that needed

20:40 Speaker 2: to happen.

20:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like your background too as a team

20:43 Speaker 1: captain really really helps you out there. You know, it's

20:48 Speaker 1: funny too, because it's not something that someone would necessarily

20:51 Speaker 1: expect would translate, but you know that having that skill set,

20:56 Speaker 1: but but but it clearly does, and that's that's great.

21:00 Speaker 1: But it makes sense too because this is a very

21:02 Speaker 1: you know, the music industry is very competitive. You know,

21:04 Speaker 1: sports is competitive, and the music industry is very competitive,

21:07 Speaker 1: and you know, yeah.

21:09 Speaker 2: Not one hundred percent agree with you.

21:10 Speaker 3: I actually had this little conversation to myself, like going

21:14 Speaker 3: into Wednesday night, so I was like, I never thought

21:16 Speaker 3: like the football stuff would translations to the music stuff

21:19 Speaker 3: as much because it's.

21:22 Speaker 2: In my head.

21:22 Speaker 3: I keep saying, I'm trying to build a team of

21:24 Speaker 3: like photographers videographers. So we've got like the Peace and

21:27 Speaker 3: Love Project, which a project based on the purely do

21:31 Speaker 3: loads of videography and photography for artists, and we have

21:35 Speaker 3: them helping us outloads. And we've got Liam Gerrards and

21:38 Speaker 3: Louisy Neighbor who's helping like manage and promoters at the minute.

21:42 Speaker 2: And then there's people he knows like Shell and Lee

21:46 Speaker 2: and stuff like that.

21:47 Speaker 3: And then Gary from the PR team who's probably organized this. Like,

21:52 Speaker 3: we've had loads of people helping us, and that's what

21:55 Speaker 3: a love like. Maybe you're right when you're saying earlier

21:58 Speaker 3: about the collaboration stuff. I know for a fact I

22:01 Speaker 3: couldn't achieve it on the own. Yeah, there's no there's

22:04 Speaker 3: absolutely no way. So I'm trying to build a big

22:07 Speaker 3: team and a good team. You all want to achieve something.

22:12 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, exactly.

22:14 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say it's just funny how it sounds like

22:16 Speaker 3: through the football because you want to win your league,

22:18 Speaker 3: you want to win the cup.

22:19 Speaker 2: Or if it all comes in with the drive and yeah,

22:23 Speaker 2: to win mentality.

22:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh no, no, So what's kind of

22:27 Speaker 1: the future? So speaking of that, So what's what's the future?

22:31 Speaker 1: Uh trajectory here? What's what's your plan? Because you obviously

22:35 Speaker 1: you approach this uh seriously, and and I assume that

22:39 Speaker 1: you've got strategies and and so forth in terms of

22:42 Speaker 1: how you're proceeding. You're you're you're clearly not someone who

22:45 Speaker 1: just throws it all against the wall and sees what sticks,

22:47 Speaker 1: which is what a lot of musicians do, which is

22:49 Speaker 1: which is fine. But but I sense that you've probably

22:52 Speaker 1: got a pretty clear strategy going forward.

22:55 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I do.

22:59 Speaker 3: But I get I think it's about you think sometimes

23:01 Speaker 3: because it is art at the end of the day,

23:02 Speaker 3: you never want to lose that side of it, So

23:04 Speaker 3: you do need to just throw some stuff at the

23:06 Speaker 3: wall and see what sticks. But at the same time,

23:08 Speaker 3: it's been sort of savvy enough to understand what is sticking.

23:15 Speaker 3: Like there's no point in just keep on throwing stuff.

23:17 Speaker 3: You kind of see what sticks and like work with

23:21 Speaker 3: some of that stuff as well as adding to it

23:23 Speaker 3: and having a direction. So we in my head it's

23:27 Speaker 3: like a two year plan, yeah, which again I understand

23:32 Speaker 3: because the art and this is very easy going and

23:36 Speaker 3: sort of creative freedom, which I love. I still like

23:39 Speaker 3: the side of it, yeah, because I do have the

23:42 Speaker 3: ambition of I want to achieve something. I've set myself

23:45 Speaker 3: like a two year plan to go with the creative

23:47 Speaker 3: side of it, and I'm hoping that's what helps us.

23:50 Speaker 3: So I know what we've got come up in a

23:52 Speaker 3: couple of months, I know what one plan for next year,

23:56 Speaker 3: and I know what we're a one be in two

24:00 Speaker 3: years time, whether all that comes together, whether it changes

24:04 Speaker 3: on the way, which I imagine at all will I'm

24:07 Speaker 3: expecting for that.

24:09 Speaker 2: We have an old saying name.

24:11 Speaker 3: Prepare for the waste, hope for the best, yeap, and

24:15 Speaker 3: like that's kind of way mentality is.

24:17 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, And it's important to plan, but it's

24:20 Speaker 1: also important to be flexible and be able to adapt

24:22 Speaker 1: and and you know, to kind of be limber with that.

24:25 Speaker 1: Is it hard, by the way, balancing that you mentioned

24:27 Speaker 1: you have you have two kids?

24:28 Speaker 2: Right? Yeah?

24:29 Speaker 1: Is it hard balancing all of that? Which I mean

24:31 Speaker 1: we talked a little bit about it earlier, and that's

24:32 Speaker 1: kind of where a piece in your sound comes from.

24:34 Speaker 3: Right.

24:34 Speaker 1: But I mean, like, are your kids, I don't know

24:38 Speaker 1: how old they are, Like do they understand what you

24:40 Speaker 1: do and that you create music and and and why

24:44 Speaker 1: it's important to you and all that? And I'm curious too,

24:46 Speaker 1: while we're at it, do they have any musical Do

24:49 Speaker 1: you see any musical inclinations from them? You know, they

24:53 Speaker 1: do they show any interest in maybe picking up an instrument.

24:55 Speaker 1: I assume they're very young because you're a young guy.

24:57 Speaker 1: But but I'm curious about that dynamic.

25:01 Speaker 3: Well, obviously i've been lying ever said it was easy.

25:06 Speaker 3: Anyone who's got a family will tell you that's hard

25:08 Speaker 3: in itself.

25:09 Speaker 2: It's a it's a constant battle. Kids just don't.

25:14 Speaker 3: Want to do is he's told. But that's I love him. That,

25:17 Speaker 3: that honestly the absolute inspiration in my life. Good me

25:20 Speaker 3: little boy, kay, And he's four. And then I've got

25:23 Speaker 3: a little girl, Rosabella who's six months.

25:26 Speaker 1: Okay, Oh, wow.

25:27 Speaker 2: So she's still very young. But me, little boy loves it.

25:30 Speaker 2: He loves the music. He loves piecing your sound good.

25:33 Speaker 3: He's got a little guitar and he's a stand in

25:37 Speaker 3: the living room like piece yourself.

25:40 Speaker 2: He loves it. Yeah, And obviously there's not a more

25:44 Speaker 2: half and I was than seeing that. Yeah.

25:47 Speaker 3: But the juggle of family life and the music life

25:51 Speaker 3: is it's it's my biggest challenge in life definitely. But

25:56 Speaker 3: way I'm kind of fortunate is because I do sing

26:00 Speaker 3: them for the living, so I gig in.

26:02 Speaker 2: The bars around Liverpool City Center.

26:06 Speaker 3: So music is my lifestyle, which kind of makes it

26:10 Speaker 3: that bit easier because if you're waken a regular Monday

26:15 Speaker 3: to Friday or regular job, to then find time to

26:19 Speaker 3: do music, I think will be harder because I'm already

26:24 Speaker 3: so I'm going to be out gigging in a few hours,

26:26 Speaker 3: so excellent. So I'm classing this is a way time.

26:31 Speaker 3: So I've come to the studio because we have a

26:33 Speaker 3: rehearsal room, so I've come here to do if it's

26:37 Speaker 3: like have an office and that helps me will be balanced.

26:42 Speaker 3: And then my wife Tasha, she obviously she's very supportive

26:47 Speaker 3: and has to deal with a lot of late lights and.

26:51 Speaker 2: Me and the lad are going to practice tonight, so

26:54 Speaker 2: to bed on your own.

26:56 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but you have a supportive partner and that's

27:00 Speaker 1: that helps tremendously with any anything.

27:03 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, God bless you, she puts it with

27:06 Speaker 2: a laugh.

27:07 Speaker 1: Absolutely well, very good in a moment. Well, we'll let

27:10 Speaker 1: you go in a moment, Jamie. You've been very generous

27:12 Speaker 1: with your time. But I also want to play at

27:14 Speaker 1: the end of our conversation, I want to play this

27:16 Speaker 1: song unconditional. And this actually came out now, this came

27:20 Speaker 1: out a couple of years ago, right, Yeah, this is

27:23 Speaker 1: this is another great song. Jenny and I both love this.

27:26 Speaker 1: Is there anything you can tell us about this about

27:28 Speaker 1: this song?

27:30 Speaker 2: Absolutely I can yet. So this was.

27:34 Speaker 3: I think it's probably the most emotional song I'll ever write,

27:37 Speaker 3: because it just the family were going through such a

27:41 Speaker 3: difficult time and we had just lost my granddad, which.

27:48 Speaker 2: That wasn't like a big deal.

27:49 Speaker 3: He was getting on so we can't of it wasn't

27:52 Speaker 3: I was in no ways everything but me uncle that

27:56 Speaker 3: kind of stopped speaking to his dad and when he

28:01 Speaker 3: passed away, to break down because instant regrets or not

28:06 Speaker 3: like making making up when they had the chance, and

28:08 Speaker 3: it had just felt a bit of a ripple effect

28:10 Speaker 3: through the family. And then there was a lot of

28:11 Speaker 3: other emotional things going on in the family at the time,

28:14 Speaker 3: which I won't go into too much, but I just

28:18 Speaker 3: can't remember the time thinking, Wow, everyone falls out with

28:22 Speaker 3: people that they love. But at the end of the day,

28:25 Speaker 3: when the crunch comes to it, once they're gone, and

28:28 Speaker 3: you realize that love was always still late. It never went.

28:33 Speaker 3: You might stop talking, or you might push away and

28:35 Speaker 3: whatever else, but whether you like to admit it or not,

28:38 Speaker 3: you'll always love the people that you've loved your family,

28:43 Speaker 3: right That the big one for me his family. I

28:47 Speaker 3: used to always joke saying about there's someone a new

28:49 Speaker 3: who was like the coaches persions and then was the dog.

28:53 Speaker 3: But if they absolutely loved the dog, and it was

28:56 Speaker 3: like that unconditional lovely no matter what happens, if you

29:00 Speaker 3: kind of realize that love is unconditional, and once you

29:04 Speaker 3: kind of experience it, it's like an ex partner. You

29:06 Speaker 3: could break up with your ex partner, but there'll always

29:09 Speaker 3: be a part of you that I'll have love for

29:10 Speaker 3: that ex panner for the time that you spend together

29:13 Speaker 3: on what you went through, of.

29:14 Speaker 2: Course if it was real love.

29:17 Speaker 3: Obviously, And yeah, it just comes from so many different

29:21 Speaker 3: emotions into one song. And again it was another one

29:26 Speaker 3: of them where I had had the code progression for

29:29 Speaker 3: years years. I had wrote like two or three different

29:32 Speaker 3: songs to it and never liked any of them. And

29:34 Speaker 3: then this one just kind of come out of nowhere

29:37 Speaker 3: in like a sort of heartfled like way. And then yeah,

29:41 Speaker 3: it was kind of people around me who wanted me

29:43 Speaker 3: to release that more than meself.

29:45 Speaker 1: Wow.

29:46 Speaker 3: So I think it's one of them where my family

29:49 Speaker 3: all love it and it'll always be something to them.

29:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's it's it's a beautiful song.

29:55 Speaker 2: Beautiful thank you. I appreciate that absolutely.

29:58 Speaker 1: And before we do that, Jamie, before we let you go,

30:01 Speaker 1: where should people go online? Where's the best place for

30:03 Speaker 1: people to go online? To keep up with everything that

30:06 Speaker 1: Jamie Higgs is doing.

30:08 Speaker 3: Instagram's meets sources of main use for social media, That's

30:12 Speaker 3: what I kind of use.

30:13 Speaker 2: I try and go on that daily. I'm trying to build.

30:16 Speaker 3: Me TikTok because everyone says TikTok's the way to go

30:20 Speaker 3: now that's right.

30:21 Speaker 2: I'm trying to use that more.

30:23 Speaker 3: I think TikTok's a little bit more cringey, and that's

30:25 Speaker 3: what It just takes a bit of get used to that.

30:27 Speaker 2: Yeah.

30:29 Speaker 1: Well, you know, you know here in America too, there's

30:31 Speaker 1: always politicians threatening to take it away from us. They

30:35 Speaker 1: haven't done it yet.

30:37 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's just it's a weird one of TikTok

30:40 Speaker 3: it because the whole China gets this whole China connection

30:44 Speaker 3: and everyone.

30:44 Speaker 2: Else to the sort of yeah, yeah, yeah, the opinions

30:48 Speaker 2: on that. But we won't open that.

30:49 Speaker 1: Though, No, no, that's a big door to open. But

30:52 Speaker 1: but yeah, so so Instagram is the main the main.

30:55 Speaker 2: Place I would say, so yeah, so yeah.

30:58 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, very good Jamie. Listen. It's been wonderful

31:02 Speaker 1: speaking with you, and we'll definitely do this again in

31:04 Speaker 1: the future as you're releasing new music. Well, we'll have

31:06 Speaker 1: you back. Certainly. Love what you're doing. And uh and

31:10 Speaker 1: you said you've got a show tonight, right.

31:12 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've got three tonight and then I'm doing a

31:17 Speaker 3: special guest appearance as well as studio oh tonight.

31:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, you got a busy night ahead of you. That's great.

31:24 Speaker 3: Absolutely off mart Yeah, yeah, good. But I'd also like

31:26 Speaker 3: to say things I've really enjoyed. This has probably been

31:28 Speaker 3: the best one I've done, so oh absolutely absolutely.

31:31 Speaker 2: Credit means I've enjoyed this.

31:32 Speaker 1: Oh, thank you, Jamie. I appreciate that. I appreciate that

31:35 Speaker 1: very very much. We love to hear that. All right, Well,

31:37 Speaker 1: we will let you go, my friend. I'm gonna hit

31:39 Speaker 1: that track Unconditional, and then I'm probably gonna sneak in

31:41 Speaker 1: piece in your sound one more time too for people

31:43 Speaker 1: who are just joining us. Sometimes I cheat it. Sometimes

31:47 Speaker 1: I cheat a little bit. If I really love a song,

31:48 Speaker 1: I'll sneak it in a second time in the hour,

31:50 Speaker 1: because why not. But thank you, thank you again Jamie

31:54 Speaker 1: so much, and we will talk to you soon. I'm sure.

31:57 Speaker 2: Absolute pleasure. Thanks Steven, Jenny appreciate it.

31:59 Speaker 1: You got it all right, Take care bye bye.

32:01 Speaker 2: Much love may take care. Thank you, you got it

32:04 Speaker 2: all right, wonderful.

32:05 Speaker 1: That was the great Jamie Higgs really enjoyed our conversation.

32:08 Speaker 1: And let's play this song again. This is called Unconditional.

32:12 Speaker 1: This is such a beautiful song. Jenny and I both

32:14 Speaker 1: love this. And then we're also going to play a

32:16 Speaker 1: piece in your sound again too. Another just such a

32:18 Speaker 1: great track. So and look forward to watching his career

32:21 Speaker 1: as it continues to evolve. But he's doing great stuff.

32:24 Speaker 2: But here it is.

32:24 Speaker 1: This is Unconditional by Jamie Higgs