Johnny Cash vs. Coke | Matt Connarton Unleashed

Speaker 1: This is really interesting to me. This is from one of my favorite websites for music industry news, music businessworldwide dot com. Coca Cola denies Johnny Cash a sound alike claim, disputes infringement in a state lawsuit. Now, this is something that we talk about a lot on the show. Of course AI, you know you can create AI deep fake voices and images and videos and all of that, and of course anything having to do with intellectual property, copyright, trademark, all of that has always been very interesting to me.

Speaker 1: And one of the things that comes up to a lot on the show is in terms of a person's image, likeness, voice, if they have a very distinctive voice, with which Johnny Cash certainly does. What are the legal ramifications of trying to pass something off as being legitimate when it's not.

Speaker 2: Was it last week? It was either last week or the week before.

Speaker 1: We talked about this thing going on on TikTok with these deep fake scams where people are actually using a likeness of Taylor Swift to create content that is not her, but it looks like her, it sounds like her, But you know, she's doing stuff that you would not expect of a celebrity of the level of Taylor Swift because she's selling memberships on TikTok to some stupid thing that's actually just a scam anyway, and you put in your information and it steals your money out of your bank account, and that's the whole point of the scam, right obviously, Taylor Swift, I mean, well, first of all, she wouldn't be in a scam to take your money because she already has all the money in the world.

Speaker 1: But also, why would Taylor Swift be involved in something like that selling memberships on TikTok. Or Kim Kardashian is another celebrity who's recently been deep faked, if I may use that as a verb on TikTok, And what I say is, when you see something like that and it makes you think, why is a celebrity, the stature of this particular person lowering themselves to do this really scammy, low rent sort of thing on social media that doesn't make any sense to me. If you see that and it doesn't make any sense to you, it's because it doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2: It's not really them. It's a deep fake.

Speaker 1: So these as we continue into the AI era, if I may this is going to become more and more of a problem. And these questions about intellectual property and likenesses and trademarks and infringement, all of these illegal buzzwords that you hear, We're going to be hearing more and more of. So I'm fascinated by this. Now, this is something I did not reread this, I just found this. But this is along the lines of something that we talk about a lot on the show. So again, this is from Music Business Worldwide dot com.

Speaker 1: Coca Cola denies Johnny Cash sound to like claim disputes and ringement in a state lawsuit. So let's see it says here the Coca Cola company pushed back against a lawsuit filed by the estate of Johnny Cash, denying that a singer used in a college football themed commercial infringed on the late country icons voice rights. Now, before we go any further, this is something Jenny and I argued about on the show, debated, sort of argued, we have more clicks on social media if we say, argue, what if what if someone happens to sound like someone famous?

Speaker 1: This is a question that gets raised when we talk about.

Speaker 2: Not TikTok.

Speaker 1: I'm sorry when we talk about Spotify, for example, a music streaming platform. Say you have an artist who has a voice that happens to sound like somebody famous. Now you are not allowed, of course, these streaming services do not allow you to intentionally upload things that represent what it is as being legitimate when it's not so. In other words, if you will use Taylor Swift as an example, again, because obviously everyone knows who Taylor Swift is, Let's say you were to upload something and present it as Taylor Swift.

Speaker 1: You can't do that because you're not Taylor Swift. But what if you happen to sound like Taylor Swift and you upload something that you're not trying to pass it off as Taylor Swift, but you happen to sound like her. And the reason that comes up is because then there is this question. Well, obviously, if you are a person of notoriety, if you're famous, you own of course, you own the rights to your own image and likeness and all that, but what about your voice? And this is something that that Jenny and I had had quite the discussion about, we'll put it that way on the air on the show months ago, because this had come up where Scarlett Johansen was soon somebody, I don't remember who.

Speaker 1: She was suing a company that was using what she claimed was an AI generated version of her voice, because this company had approached her about being the voice of something, some app or something, and she said no, So instead they went ahead and had this app have what sounded like her voice. Now it wasn't her, according to this company. It wasn't even an AI generated version of her.

Speaker 2: It was.

Speaker 1: Just another just a voice actress who sounded like her. But then you get into the question of see, it gets so complicated. Is the voice actress do they just happen to sound like Scarlett Johansson or are they intentionally doing an impression of Scarlett Johansson so that you think it's Scarlett Johansson. See again, it's easy to talk about the rights to your likeness, to your image, but when we talk about the rights to your voice, what if somebody else happens to sound like you? Then it gets dicey.

Speaker 1: Right, So again I say, all that to say is circling back to this. So Coca Cola is denying that they infringed upon the rights the voice rights of the estate of Johnny Cash. Okay, So we get back to the article. So it says here Cash has a state filed in the lawsuit and US District Court in Nashville. In November of twenty five, allegend Coca Cola hired a tribute singer to record vocals for a commercial that started airing in August twenty twenty five. Okay, so if they hired it, Now here's the thing again.

Speaker 1: This is another layer of where it gets complicated here. If you are a tribute act, So say you are a Johnny Cash tribute artist, you go and you do shows, and you do the whole show as Johnny Cash.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: This is not a new thing. Of course, lots of tribute tribute acts, tribute bands. You know, Kisses, my favorite band is like a million in histribute bands out there.

Speaker 2: Right.

Speaker 1: If you do that, of course you're going to try to sound like that artist, or who knows, maybe you naturally sound like that artist, and maybe that's the whole reason you got into doing a tribute to them, because you happen to have a voice similar to them. I mean, it's hard to believe anybody sounds like Johnny Cash, right, but it's certainly possible.

Speaker 2: So it says here.

Speaker 1: Coca Cola filed its answer on May eighth, denying that the ad infringed Cash's voice and denying the existence of an infringing ad. However, the company did acknowledge that the ad contained a male singing voice and that the company quote caused the advertisement to appear on television, some social media, and some online platforms. It says here quote, the Coca Cola Company admits that the advertisement appeared on ABC, NBC, FOX, FS one, BTN, TN T, ESPN, ESPN two, TBS, and True TV. The Coca Cola Company admits that the advertisement first aired during the twenty twenty five fall college football season.

Speaker 1: Unquote,

Speaker 1: So they're not acknowledging any you know that in any way infringed upon or was supposed to sound like Johnny Cash. I guess they're just denying that. It'd be great if we could find the ad. I'd like to find the ad and see, you know, it's probably I'm sure it's on YouTube right. Maybe I can find it quickly, Okay. The company also confirmed that the ad included imagery from the University of Michigan, the University of Notre Dame, the University of Southern California, Louisiana State University and Ohio State University, schools with which it has or had commercial relationships.

Speaker 1: However, Coca Cola denied the estate's cores allegations. Lawyers for the beverage Giants said, quote the Coca Cola Company admits that the singing voice included in the advertisement is not the voice of Johnny Cash unquote. The company rejected the estate's claims that it used a sound alike singer in the ad.

Speaker 2: Quote.

Speaker 1: The Coca Cola Company denies the allegations embedded in the defined term sound alike singer. The Coca Cola Company admits that the singer appears to have a website that includes the quoted language unquote, reads the filing. I don't understand what that last part means. Well, maybe it explains it here. That quoted language refers to an allegation from the Cash to state that the singer in question advertises himself via a website calling him quote the number one Johnny Cash Tribute Show. Oh so, based on where we've gotten so far, and there is more, but let's look at where we are now.

Speaker 1: And again, to remind everyone, I am not a legal expert of any kind. I have no legal background. I'm not an attorney. I just happen to find this stuff interesting. I do know a little bit about intellectual property and things of that nature, just because of my background and some of the work that I've done, but I'm far from an expert, so I am speaking as a layman here, and I would just say so far to me, this sounds a little bit damning. In other words, if Coca Cola is trying to play this off as we did not intentionally try to make this, because it sounds like this is a roundabout way of saying we didn't try to make this sound like Johnny Cash.

Speaker 1: We didn't try to fool anybody into thinking that this was Johnny Cash. We just what We just happened to hire a singer who advertises himself on his website as the number one Johnny Cash tribute show. But that doesn't mean that we're directly infringing. But again again, and I want to get a leak. You know, one of these days we got we have to get an attorney on the show, because we have so many questions.

Speaker 2: Jenny and I.

Speaker 1: When I say we, I mean Jenny and I both, because you know, these are things that We've discussed a lot on the show over the years. But again, is it is it considered infringement if it's someone who is doing an imitation and impression, Like, what makes it an infringement? Is it just that they sound like Johnny Cash and people are fooled by it?

Speaker 2: Probably?

Speaker 1: Again speaking as a layman, Yeah, that's probably infringement. If you're intentionally trying to deceive people, then I would say yes.

Speaker 1: If you're not intentionally trying to deceive anyone, and the singer in question just happens to sound.

Speaker 2: Like Johnny Cash.

Speaker 1: Okay, but I'm kind of not buying it, especially when this dude again he plugs himself on his website as being the number one Johnny Cash tribute show. All right, let's see there's more to this again. This is from Music Businessworldwide dot Com, again one of my favorite websites for music industry news.

Speaker 2: It says here, the.

Speaker 1: Cash estate lawsuit invokes Tennessee's Elvis Act, enacted in March of twenty twenty four. Oh, by the way, there's something similar here in New Hampshire. And this is what Jenny has talked about because she was a part of it when she served in the New Hampshire State Legislature the JD.

Speaker 2: Salinger Act.

Speaker 1: Salinger, of course, a very famous author who is from New Hampshire, and this very issue came up in terms of the use of his likeness for something and or his name for something, and so they passed they passed a similar act, and Salinger is in the I don't remember the exact name of the law here in New Hampshire, but you would think there'd be federal I'm sure there are federal laws about this, but obviously we have a patchwork of state laws as well when it comes to this. But they passed a law here in New Hampshire, the state legislature did when Jenny was serving about that.

Speaker 1: I think it might literally be called the JD. Sounder Act. I'm not sure, but it's about protecting someone's name and likeness from being used commercially in a way that the family does not approve of. So apparently Tennessee they have the Elvis Act. Okay, it protects likeness, voice and image rights. The law defines, Now this is important. The law defines voice as quote a sound in a medium that is readily identifiable and attributable to a particular individual, regardless of whether the sound contains is the actual voice or a simulation unquote.

Speaker 1: So according to the Elvis Act, if I'm reading that correctly, in Tennessee.

Speaker 2: You can't do a sound alike. You can't do a.

Speaker 1: Tribute and say now, that's fine. Certainly not if the estate of the person who's you know you're imitating objects, it says here. The state also brought claims under the Tennessee Consumer Protection Act and the Federal Landham Act. Coca Cola denied a liability on all three accounts. So according to according to the estate, this is in there. This is from their filing. Quote, the trust failed to take reasonable action to minimize any damage allegedly sustained as a result of the facts alleged in the complaint.

Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sorry, this is from This is from Coca Cola. This is their attorney's responding. I apologize, I got that backward. So this is their response. Coca Cola's response, their attorney's response to the lawsuit. Quote, the trust failed. The trust, referring to the estate, failed to take responsibility responsible I'm sorry, reasonable action to minimize any damages allegedly sustained as a result of the facts alleged in the complaint, and is therefore barred from recovering any damages which might reasonably have been avoided unquote.

Speaker 1: In its response, Coca Cola raised a number of grounds to dismiss all claims, including that the trust quote lacks standing to assert the rights underlying its claims unquote, that the trust claims quote.

Speaker 2: Are barred in whole or.

Speaker 1: In part by the First Amendment unquote, and that the state law claims quote are barred in whole or in part because they are preempted by federal law unquote. That last part is particularly interesting to me. So in other words, they're saying, well, you can't use the Elvis Act because federal laws supersedes it. And to that I would say, well, does it really, Because if you know anything about this stuff, you know they're are you know, there's the concept of federalism, that and the Tenth Amendment.

Speaker 1: And we used to back when we used to do politics on this show, which we don't do anymore or not in the not in this iteration of the program here at WMNH, but we used to talk about that a lot, you know, states rights versus federal rights and states will often enact laws, and they would argue that you can do that under the tenth Amendment of the Constitution, an act laws that maybe do not comport with what the federal law is, and the theory that federal law always supersedes state law. But does it really and you can kind of give give examples of where it does and where it doesn't.

Speaker 1: You know, for example, when we talk about things like decriminalization and legalization of marijuana, will federal law says it's illegal, but individual states have legalized it, et cetera.

Speaker 2: So it's quite the rabbit hole that you can go down.

Speaker 1: But the argument that Coca Cola's legal team seems to be making, one of them, one of several, is that they can do this. If I'm reading this correctly, the First Amendment of the Constitution says they can do this.

Speaker 2: They're free to do this.

Speaker 1: So I guess, in a roundabout way, they're claiming that the Elvis Act in Tennessee, under which Coca Cola is being sued, the grounds that they're violating that is unconstitutional. It violates the First Amendment. That seems to be the argument they're making. It says here the estate had earlier accused the company of entering into endorsement agreements with entertainers, musicians, and athletes quote to induce consumers to purchase its products unquote. Coca Cola acknowledged having endorsements, but denied the estates claim that it uses the endorsements to induce customers to buy its products.

Speaker 1: Okay, now, what I want to do very quickly if we can, and I, like I said, I didn't have a chance to pre read that before we went on the air, or I would have this ready. So I'm going to try to find this as quickly as I can.

Speaker 2: I want to.

Speaker 1: Find the ad. I want to actually hear the ad and see. Okay, Coca Cola Johnny Cash ad. I want to see if it actually does sound like Johnny Cash.

Speaker 2: Well.

Speaker 1: I found one from seventeen years ago, but it's clearly not that one because Johnny Cash was still alive seventeen years ago. I don't know if I'm gonna be able to find it. See, it might not even be available on YouTube because if it was, the estate might have had it pulled. Hang on, let me see what this is.

Speaker 1: This is definitely it. Okay, I found it looks like there's more than one. Okay, this is definitely it August twenty twenty five. Okay, let's listen to this. This is the ad. This is the ad that the.

Speaker 2: Estate is suing. Over and again.

Speaker 1: Let's listen to this while keeping in mind that, well, does it sound like Johnny cash and does it sound so much like Johnny cash that a reasonable person would be fooled? And therefore the estate has a case because they clearly tried to pass this. They wanted people to think it was Johnny cash Er or whatever.

Speaker 2: I mean.

Speaker 1: There's several allegations here, but let's listen to the actual ad. Let's see and again. Coca Cola quick disclaimer. They are not in any way associated with the program. They do not sponsor the show. They're not a sponsor of WM and H, none of that. This is not an endorsement of Coca Cola, nor is it a condemnation of Coca Cola. We are simply for the sake of this discussion and analysis, we are going to play the ad here we go.

Speaker 2: Stand with Fire inside this arts drum album subside.

Speaker 1: Hey, okay, we're halfway through the ad. We're at fourteen seconds. It's a thirty second ad. Can I just say this, I don't think it sounds like Johnny Cash. What do you all think. I'd be very curious to get some audience feedback on this. I don't think it sounds like Johnny Cash. Here's what I think it sounds like. I think it sounds like someone singing in a style similar to Johnny Cash. Like, you know, that's who this guy is, right, he claims on his website he's the world's greatest Johnny Cash impersonator of all time, in the entire universe, or however it was that he put it.

Speaker 1: But I don't think it actually sounds like Johnny Cash. I think it sounds like someone singing in the style of Johnny Cash. But it does not sound like Johnny Cash to me. Let's hear the rest of the ad. You'd be the judge.

Speaker 2: Here's the all right.

Speaker 1: Well, first of all, because of the effects of the crowd noise in the ad, it's almost hard to clearly hear the voice. But guys, you know, I started out thinking that Coca Cola was in the wrong here, but now I'm starting to think they're not. I don't think that sounds like Johnny Cash. I think this is a frivolous lawsuit. That does not sound like Johnny Cash.

Speaker 2: To me.

Speaker 1: That sounds like someone vaguely singing in a style like Johnny Cash. But I don't think that. Let's play just the beginning again, because in the beginning you can more clearly hear the voice. By the time you get to the end of the ad, there's all this crowd noise and the vocal track in the ad gets buried a little bit. Let's hear the beginning again. Let's stand.

Speaker 2: Now with fir and side.

Speaker 1: Arts drunk. I would upside okay, if you had played this for me. This is just my opinion. If you had played this for me and you said to me, Matt, who does that sound like to you? I would probably say something like, hmm, kind of reminds me of Johnny Cash. What I would not say is that's Johnny Cash. I might say it kind of reminds me of Johnny Cash, but reminds me of and sounds exactly like or is definitely trying to fool somebody. That's not the same thing. A lot of things sound like other things.

Speaker 1: A lot of artists sound like other artists. A lot of voices kind of remind you of other voices or are evocative of other things that you might hear. That's not the same thing as copying. And I guess what I'm saying is, if to use the legal term, that's not the same as infringement. Let's see, Oh, our friend Charles Richardson is in the chat room and has some feedback on this. Let's see what Charles has to say. Of course, Charles Richardson, host of The Charles Richardson Show. He says, also, Coca Cola denies having a certain drug that starts with coca included in their drink.

Speaker 2: Well, that that's true. There's there's that story. I assume it's I assume it's true.

Speaker 1: It's often been told that Coca Cola originally the reason it's called that the original formulation of Coca Cola had caffeine. Not, of course it has caffeine, Uh, had cocaine in it. That's what I've always heard. Obviously it does not now, Charles said, but we know better. Charles also said, sounds like an average country style singer, Yes, thank you. Charles agrees with me. Yeah, that does not sound like Johnny Cash. So this is a money grab. That's Judge Connorton has ruled I don't have a gavel.

Speaker 1: I can slay my water bottle. Judge Connerton has ruled case dismissed. This is a money grab. It is a frivolous lawsuit by the estate of Johnny Cash. That does not sound like Johnny Cash in the commercial. I'm sorry that someone who happens to be a Johnny Cash tribute singer just you know, happens to sound a little bit like him in the ad.

Speaker 2: But that would not fool me. Now, maybe that does fool some.

Speaker 1: People, and maybe the lawyers for the estate are approaching it like, well, the average person is easily fooled.

Speaker 2: But come on, it didn't fool me.

Speaker 1: Okay, Uh that that clearly like if I'd heard that cold and you had said, and you had said to me, you know, Matt, who is this, I wouldn't say it was Johnny Cash. I would say it was something I might say it was someone might say it was someone who reminded me of Jhnny Cash. Or Charles pointed out, you know, might just remind you of uh, you know, your your average country singer with with some twang in his voice. We're gonna move on from that We'll keep an eye on that story though. Going forward again these topics of intellectual property and infringement and copyright and trademark and likeness likenesses of one's voice again as we move into the AI area, although this particular story turns out had nothing to do with AI directly, but these issues will continue to take center stage, so we will keep an eye on that

Johnny Cash vs. Coke | Matt Connarton Unleashed

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