Matt Connarton Unleashed 1-10-26 hour 2

0:00 Speaker 1: This is Jesse Rutstein and Caleb Dyer.

0:03 Speaker 2: Oh oh now, okay, we we can. Let's do that

0:06 Speaker 2: one more time.

0:06 Speaker 1: This is Jesse Rutstein and Caleb Dyer.

0:10 Speaker 2: Oh crap, hold on, what do you want me to say?

0:12 Speaker 2: Right after that?

0:13 Speaker 1: From Hatchet act from and then I'll say, you're listening right?

0:16 Speaker 2: Sounds good?

0:17 Speaker 3: This is Jesse Rutstein and oh this is why I'm

0:22 Speaker 3: the leader. This is Jesse Rutstein and Caleb Dyer from

0:28 Speaker 3: Hatchet Axon Saw Records. You are listening to the Matt

0:31 Speaker 3: Connerton Show on w m n H ninety five point

0:34 Speaker 3: three Manchester.

0:36 Speaker 4: Actually, what did I say?

0:39 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, all right, let's do this again. Let's

0:42 Speaker 2: do this again.

0:43 Speaker 3: This is Jesse Rutstein and Caleb Dyer from Hatchet Axon

0:47 Speaker 3: Saw Records.

0:48 Speaker 1: You are listening to Matt Connerton Unleashed on ninety five

0:52 Speaker 1: to three w NA. Dude, this is Jesse Rutstein.

0:59 Speaker 2: And Caleb Dyer from Hatchet ax and Saw Records.

1:02 Speaker 3: You are listening to Matt Connorton Unleashed on ninety five

1:06 Speaker 3: point three w m n H.

1:08 Speaker 5: F M.

1:30 Speaker 6: Founded forever like number connessa, I know that wherever you go.

1:38 Speaker 7: That's the distance, and you find the difference so much

1:44 Speaker 7: less than you know. I said the cognitive Sundra sen

1:51 Speaker 7: n r instead.

1:55 Speaker 6: And my love on the break the ships, I still

1:59 Speaker 6: say no thoughts have to say.

2:27 Speaker 7: It is let me read of distance between us, and

2:31 Speaker 7: still I cannot let you go.

2:35 Speaker 8: Lp making notions and sicklical motions.

2:39 Speaker 6: See how the watters got.

2:44 Speaker 9: Leave in my love on the shop fly home to

2:49 Speaker 9: answer a cold.

3:16 Speaker 6: Days of confusion, the black.

3:18 Speaker 8: Dallusion, weirdest int the shot through from b des intention

3:26 Speaker 8: to see revelation about it.

3:29 Speaker 5: It is open to you.

3:59 Speaker 10: Oh that is okay, And I love the guitar work

4:01 Speaker 10: in that the track is Nebuchadnezzar, and that is Paul Nasol.

4:05 Speaker 10: I will ask him though, if I'm pronouncing his name correctly. Paul,

4:09 Speaker 10: are you there?

4:11 Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'm there. I know you're not.

4:13 Speaker 10: No, okay, how do you say your name?

4:15 Speaker 5: It's Nasole?

4:17 Speaker 10: Oh, Nazole? Okay, because you are you're you're gets a

4:21 Speaker 10: lot of different things. Oh, I can imagine. Yeah, because

4:27 Speaker 10: you're of I was reading about you. So you're you're

4:29 Speaker 10: from Liverpool, right, but you're of Italian descent, So that

4:32 Speaker 10: the name is Italian. I assume right, that's right.

4:35 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like a scouse.

4:37 Speaker 10: Gotcha, gotcha. I love that song a lot. And is

4:41 Speaker 10: that you obviously that's your singing? Is that also you

4:43 Speaker 10: on guitar?

4:45 Speaker 5: Yeah, I do some of the guitar. But there's also

4:46 Speaker 5: a guy called Robert Johnson on the guitar there as well. Okay,

4:51 Speaker 5: he's a great player. Actually he's actually Ginger Baker's nephew.

4:54 Speaker 5: Would you believe kidding? Yeah, yeah, cream tu bumbed. It

4:59 Speaker 5: sounds at the clockedon actually doesn't it as well?

5:01 Speaker 3: Yeah?

5:01 Speaker 10: Oh that's oh that's wild. Yeah, oh cool, very very

5:05 Speaker 10: very nice. Yeah, being are you do you currently still

5:08 Speaker 10: live in Liverpool?

5:10 Speaker 5: Yeah at the minute, Yeah, I'm sorts of brunching out

5:12 Speaker 5: a little bit, but uh yeah, looking to uh it's

5:15 Speaker 5: got a little bit further field. But being never Pool

5:18 Speaker 5: most of my life.

5:19 Speaker 10: I'm curious about and I you won't be the first

5:22 Speaker 10: person I've asked this question of, but like, is there

5:26 Speaker 10: is there a certain pressure that comes with being a

5:29 Speaker 10: musician from a place that is so well known for

5:34 Speaker 10: uh you know, you know, in terms of of kind

5:37 Speaker 10: of being it's I feel like Liverpool is almost kind

5:40 Speaker 10: of like this this musical center of the universe within

5:44 Speaker 10: that part of the world. What's that like being there

5:47 Speaker 10: in that music scene.

5:49 Speaker 5: It's great, yeah, you know, it's very incense as well.

5:52 Speaker 5: It can be a little bit of a bubble all

5:53 Speaker 5: of its own, you know, which I imagine a lot

5:55 Speaker 5: of those places are like Nashville and stuff, you know,

5:57 Speaker 5: I mentioned they're all a little bit like that.

5:59 Speaker 10: Yeah.

6:00 Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a lot of great things to be said

6:01 Speaker 5: for it. Man, you know, a lot of a lot

6:03 Speaker 5: of musicians. You know, everyone seems to play guitar. There

6:07 Speaker 5: used to be an old saying back in the nineties.

6:09 Speaker 5: He used to save you from Liverpool. You either play football,

6:11 Speaker 5: you play guitar, or you were you know, you're up

6:14 Speaker 5: to no good, right, right, the young fool, you know.

6:18 Speaker 5: But it's changing a lot. You know, the city has

6:20 Speaker 5: changed a lot over the last twenty years. It's a

6:22 Speaker 5: it used to be quite a poor city. Now it's

6:24 Speaker 5: kind of it's growing a lot.

6:25 Speaker 6: You know.

6:25 Speaker 10: Oh, that's good, expanding, that's good. Did you start playing

6:29 Speaker 10: guitar and singing at a young age?

6:31 Speaker 5: Not really, now. I was also interested in the arts

6:34 Speaker 5: in all different ways, you know, like writing and acting,

6:38 Speaker 5: and poetry, and I got into guitar probably about seventeen

6:41 Speaker 5: something like that. I played a bit of keyboards, a

6:43 Speaker 5: lover the bass, but it was really a little bit

6:45 Speaker 5: later on. But it's sours of took over, you know.

6:47 Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's unusual. But I assume you know,

6:51 Speaker 10: once you started playing, you probably picked it up quickly.

6:54 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's it. I was kind of possessed by it,

6:56 Speaker 5: you know, and yeah, very obsessed.

7:00 Speaker 10: You had played. Did you start out on keyboard?

7:04 Speaker 5: Yeah, a little bit of keyboards, I think I and

7:05 Speaker 5: you know, I say play keyboard, I think I could

7:07 Speaker 5: play Van Halen Jump, Yeah, Moonlight sonata, yeah, and like,

7:13 Speaker 5: you know, one or two other bits.

7:15 Speaker 10: And now the reason I was the reason I was

7:17 Speaker 10: curious is I've heard so many music professors and instructors

7:20 Speaker 10: say over the years that no matter what you intend

7:23 Speaker 10: to play for an instrument, you should learn some just

7:26 Speaker 10: some basic keyboard first, because yeah, and I didn't do that.

7:31 Speaker 10: I didn't do that. I wish I had, But I've

7:33 Speaker 10: just heard so many people say that because it, you know,

7:35 Speaker 10: it teaches you how to in your mind sort of

7:38 Speaker 10: put chords together, and and what you learn from the

7:41 Speaker 10: keyboard will help you with any other instrument that you play.

7:45 Speaker 5: I can imagine that. It's also like visually you can

7:48 Speaker 5: kind of see what's happening in regards you know, the

7:53 Speaker 5: space between the notes and things like that, you.

7:55 Speaker 10: Know exactly exactly.

7:58 Speaker 5: So you know, I'm writing on I'm sort of writing

8:00 Speaker 5: but on piano at the minute. And it's also very different,

8:04 Speaker 5: you know. You know, Guitar can sort of be a

8:06 Speaker 5: very mechanical sort you know, like you kind of hunched

8:09 Speaker 5: around this thing. It's comfortable to play, of course, but

8:11 Speaker 5: you know you are kind of like, you know, hunt

8:12 Speaker 5: around it, and it's a little bit more physical, where

8:15 Speaker 5: piano you kind of can sit down and it's all

8:18 Speaker 5: there in frontier. You know. It's like when I've I've

8:20 Speaker 5: sometimes have some problems with me jointing my fingers and

8:24 Speaker 5: so piano I can still play just fine, you know,

8:26 Speaker 5: but guitar can be a little bit more taxing, sure,

8:29 Speaker 5: just because I played far too much guitar, you know.

8:33 Speaker 10: Now, So tell us about the single nebkid Nezzar, and

8:37 Speaker 10: I imagine it's probably doing pretty well over there, right.

8:40 Speaker 10: It's such a great track.

8:42 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think in Liverpool, you know, in Liverpool, a

8:46 Speaker 5: lot of people know the words to it actually and stuff.

8:48 Speaker 5: You know. It's actually it's got a very you know,

8:51 Speaker 5: it's got a flavor that seems very Liverpool to me.

8:54 Speaker 5: And I guess, you know, mostly when I play locally,

8:57 Speaker 5: it's it's acoustic, and the song works really nice acoustically

9:00 Speaker 5: stripped back, you know, it sounds a little bit more

9:02 Speaker 5: Beatles when you when we recorded it, but yeah when

9:05 Speaker 5: we when I play it, you know, locally, and it's

9:10 Speaker 5: more stripped back, it's got more of like a folky

9:12 Speaker 5: sort of feel, you know. And yeah, it did. You know,

9:15 Speaker 5: you can always tell a good song, you know. This

9:16 Speaker 5: seems to resonate with people. You can see it very quickly,

9:18 Speaker 5: you know, especially with the musicians, so to see their

9:21 Speaker 5: eyes light up, you know. And it's funny actually because

9:24 Speaker 5: it was one of those songs that I wrote very quickly.

9:26 Speaker 5: It all just came out in one go. And you know,

9:30 Speaker 5: I used to be able to do a lot more

9:31 Speaker 5: when I was younger. Right now is a little bit

9:33 Speaker 5: more ponderous, you know, but but yeah, there's something to

9:37 Speaker 5: be said for it. I think those songs that come

9:38 Speaker 5: out very quickly, you sort of channel them, you know.

9:42 Speaker 10: Well, also too. If if people are learning the words,

9:44 Speaker 10: you know, if you're playing it at shows and people

9:46 Speaker 10: know the words, then you know, it's really resonating, you.

9:48 Speaker 5: Know, definitely. Yeah, yeah, that's one hundred percent, because you know,

9:51 Speaker 5: you get you get songs which are like very pleasant

9:53 Speaker 5: to listen to, you know, but but when it's got

9:57 Speaker 5: that catchy thing, there's there's something to be said. And

9:59 Speaker 5: that's kind of you know, that's a you I kind

10:00 Speaker 5: of have on on art as well, like in poetry

10:03 Speaker 5: and and stuff. I think I read it. It was

10:06 Speaker 5: a guy in like the twenties or something was like

10:08 Speaker 5: critiquing the modernist poets, you know, T s Elliotts and

10:11 Speaker 5: people like that, and he was saying that, you know,

10:13 Speaker 5: the flowery language and the mastery of language that these

10:16 Speaker 5: guys had was amazing, and he didn't want to critique that,

10:19 Speaker 5: but he said, there's something beautiful about sort of the

10:22 Speaker 5: folk poetry of rhyme, which is that like children could

10:26 Speaker 5: recite this stuff around the fire, you know, and yeah,

10:28 Speaker 5: and it stuck in the mind and it furnished their

10:31 Speaker 5: minds with beautiful words, you know, and and there was

10:33 Speaker 5: something really nice about that. And I think songs can

10:35 Speaker 5: have that there's room for everything, but there's something to

10:38 Speaker 5: be said that type of stuff, you know, And that's

10:40 Speaker 5: I always try and put a bit of focus on

10:42 Speaker 5: on rhyme. And I always think if you can say

10:44 Speaker 5: what you're trying to say and make it rhyme, then

10:47 Speaker 5: maybe you're onto something, you know.

10:49 Speaker 10: Right, right? Absolutely? So, can you tell us more about

10:52 Speaker 10: the single Nebuchadnezzar. Where where does it come from? And

10:56 Speaker 10: what are the themes are exploring in the song?

11:00 Speaker 5: Yeah, so it's sort of about, like, you know, first

11:04 Speaker 5: of all, I guess it's like it felt like to

11:06 Speaker 5: me like it was coming to grips with a lot

11:09 Speaker 5: of stuff, a lot of like troubles and confusion. That

11:11 Speaker 5: was like a central theme to it, you know. And

11:13 Speaker 5: never connessed himself, the old King of Babylon. Here he

11:17 Speaker 5: was tormented by dreams, you know, and he's this sort

11:20 Speaker 5: of conflicting figure who God punishes but also seems to

11:24 Speaker 5: love because he lets him be redeemed, you know. And

11:27 Speaker 5: that was what sort of I like the idea, and

11:29 Speaker 5: it's just a great way, doesn't it from that way?

11:32 Speaker 5: Straight away? You know? And yeah, so it was like

11:36 Speaker 5: sort of going through it in my own life. It

11:37 Speaker 5: was a very confusing time. I was I had a

11:42 Speaker 5: kid on the way. I was also going through a

11:45 Speaker 5: new relationship with a musician which was total chaos, and

11:50 Speaker 5: so yeah, it was like, I guess, the confusing time

11:51 Speaker 5: in my life, and it all came came about from that.

11:56 Speaker 5: And also it was when I was quite like getting

11:58 Speaker 5: back into music. Really it was when I was saying,

12:00 Speaker 5: see that I got back to it and I used

12:02 Speaker 5: to run a music venue for a long time, really

12:04 Speaker 5: taken me away from performing. Yeah, it was a great

12:07 Speaker 5: famous old place. Actually it was a recording studio that

12:09 Speaker 5: it turned into a bar so where cold Play recorded

12:12 Speaker 5: two albums actually, amongst others. Yeah, it was great pastory studios.

12:16 Speaker 5: It was called it Got It Got Bulldoze. Unfortunately, I

12:20 Speaker 5: would have been quite happy to to try and buy

12:22 Speaker 5: the venue and life different paths, but instead, when it closed,

12:27 Speaker 5: I thought, well, maybe I'll try music again instead. And

12:29 Speaker 5: so for me, NEBC also represents like the start of

12:32 Speaker 5: an adventure, you know, And I think that it kind

12:34 Speaker 5: of sounds like that a little bit. You know. I

12:35 Speaker 5: like the trumpet, and we added some trumpet in a Yes,

12:38 Speaker 5: the trump always makes you think it's like a herald.

12:40 Speaker 5: You know, it's like it does.

12:42 Speaker 10: Yeah, you're right.

12:44 Speaker 5: The king is coming to town and the trumpet plays

12:46 Speaker 5: the leagle.

12:47 Speaker 6: You know that's right.

12:47 Speaker 10: Yeah, that's true. I hadn't even thought of that, but

12:49 Speaker 10: you're right. H yeah. The production, the product, the production

12:53 Speaker 10: is fantastic. Uh now who did you who did you

12:57 Speaker 10: work with on that? As far as uh production? And

13:00 Speaker 10: is it the same? Is it the same for the

13:03 Speaker 10: entire album? Yeah?

13:05 Speaker 5: Mostly it's It was a mixed bire gat and recorded

13:08 Speaker 5: by a guy called Russell Cottier Soundhouse Recording Studio, which

13:11 Speaker 5: is an amazing old recording studio, a little hidden gem

13:14 Speaker 5: actually in Liverpool, not many people seem to know about.

13:18 Speaker 5: And it was in my hometown, which was just was

13:22 Speaker 5: really what drew me to. I thought like there was nice,

13:24 Speaker 5: something nice about that being close to home, and yeah,

13:29 Speaker 5: Russells done a great job. But actually there was some

13:30 Speaker 5: of the parts we recorded at another studio as well,

13:34 Speaker 5: like a home studio, and I think that was the

13:38 Speaker 5: thiddle parts and some of the harmony parts were recorded

13:42 Speaker 5: externally from a previous attempt at recording the single. But

13:47 Speaker 5: like you know, that's the thing. It was like budgets

13:49 Speaker 5: and stuff defeated. That was a bit of mimister done

13:51 Speaker 5: what I could do. So when we got the chance to,

13:54 Speaker 5: I got picked up with a manager, Fuel the Fire,

13:57 Speaker 5: and they produced the album for oh wow. So having

14:02 Speaker 5: a bit of a budget and stuff together and a

14:05 Speaker 5: bigger a bigger crew of musicians to draw from and stuff, right,

14:12 Speaker 5: we had another go out and put it together and

14:14 Speaker 5: I'm pretty happy with that. I'd like to record an

14:16 Speaker 5: acoustic version of it with a flute or something, but

14:19 Speaker 5: oh yeah, it means to have happened yet.

14:22 Speaker 10: And now this is Is this your first this album?

14:25 Speaker 10: Is this your first release as a solo artist?

14:28 Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, there was a couple of like basic singles

14:30 Speaker 5: put out in from home studios, but this is the

14:33 Speaker 5: first proper release really. Yeah.

14:35 Speaker 10: Okay, Now, now were you playing in bands before? I

14:38 Speaker 10: know you mentioned you kind of took a break too

14:40 Speaker 10: from playing because you're running running a venue, But prior

14:43 Speaker 10: to that, were you playing in bands or maybe during that?

14:45 Speaker 6: Yeah?

14:46 Speaker 5: Yeah, for a long time, from like say seventeen to

14:50 Speaker 5: twenty five, I was always mostly as a league guitarist,

14:53 Speaker 5: never as a singer. Oh really, I've done a lot

14:55 Speaker 5: of rights, Yeah, I've done a lot of writing for

14:57 Speaker 5: chords and things like that. But I've got a couple

14:59 Speaker 5: of other project coming out. Actually, so did a lot

15:01 Speaker 5: of collaborations and league guitar and bands with tons of

15:05 Speaker 5: people in Liverpool. But yeah, never really put it forward

15:08 Speaker 5: as you know, as an artist in my own right.

15:11 Speaker 5: So this was the first time to really try and

15:14 Speaker 5: do that, you know, because in Liverpool had sort of

15:16 Speaker 5: been that kind of character. I was kind of someone

15:17 Speaker 5: who like brought things together, you know, sort of hosting

15:22 Speaker 5: up on mics and putting on events and sure, and

15:25 Speaker 5: so a lot of my stuff that I'd done was

15:27 Speaker 5: really all about collaboration and community, and so it was

15:29 Speaker 5: nice to finally do something that was kind of like, well,

15:31 Speaker 5: this is more about me being an artist now, you know.

15:35 Speaker 10: Was that always kind of the goal even when you

15:37 Speaker 10: were playing in bands consistently. Was it always kind of

15:40 Speaker 10: in the back of your mind that you would eventually

15:42 Speaker 10: do a solo album.

15:44 Speaker 5: No, never, really, I don't think I really had the

15:47 Speaker 5: belief or the confidence, you know. And then I think

15:49 Speaker 5: as I was getting older in the venue didn't wearhouse,

15:51 Speaker 5: I thought, you know, you better do something, you know, right,

15:55 Speaker 5: And also, you know, it was also that kind of

15:57 Speaker 5: thing of you know, like, ultimately, you've got to take

16:01 Speaker 5: your destiny in your own hands, haven't you. So I'd

16:04 Speaker 5: played with a lot of bands that I thought was great,

16:06 Speaker 5: but for one reason or another that they wouldn't work out,

16:08 Speaker 5: and you know, you would dependent on four or five

16:12 Speaker 5: other people being on the same page. So just by necessity,

16:16 Speaker 5: it was like, what if I want to have a

16:17 Speaker 5: real go with this, I'm gonna have to do it

16:18 Speaker 5: for myself. You know.

16:19 Speaker 10: Yeah, that's the hardest thing I think about being in

16:22 Speaker 10: a band is you know, I've I've been in a

16:24 Speaker 10: lot of bands, and it's it's hard when you because

16:28 Speaker 10: you've got people with varying degrees of commitment and and yeah,

16:32 Speaker 10: you know, and in terms of what their vision is

16:34 Speaker 10: for for what you're doing, and and it's, uh, that

16:37 Speaker 10: can be really challenging. Plus you got to deal with

16:38 Speaker 10: everyone's schedules and whatnot. So there's so many things, you know, Yeah,

16:42 Speaker 10: there's so many musicians we've.

16:43 Speaker 5: Had, you know, people people have kids, and you know,

16:46 Speaker 5: everything and it can change things, you.

16:48 Speaker 10: Know exactly, and also people.

16:50 Speaker 5: People see it. You know, for me, it's very important,

16:52 Speaker 5: you know, it's the kind of stuff I just think

16:53 Speaker 5: about all the time, you know, not just just music,

16:55 Speaker 5: but also like writing little poems and things. You know,

16:57 Speaker 5: it's just sort of how I live, you know. And

17:00 Speaker 5: it also sorts of occurred to me in the end

17:02 Speaker 5: that it's unrealistic to expect anyone else to have that

17:07 Speaker 5: same right, right, but maybe you know.

17:11 Speaker 10: Now you did mention, so you're gonna be doing going forward.

17:13 Speaker 10: You are going to be doing some more collaborating though,

17:15 Speaker 10: So I like, what what's kind of the is the

17:18 Speaker 10: solo Is the solo stuff that you're doing, is that

17:20 Speaker 10: kind of the main priority and the other things are

17:22 Speaker 10: ancillary or or I think.

17:25 Speaker 5: I'll do them. I'll do them as a you know,

17:27 Speaker 5: under my own name, as a collaboration maybe with with

17:30 Speaker 5: some of the artists I'm looking I'm actually planning at

17:31 Speaker 5: the minute to go to a sort of farm on

17:35 Speaker 5: the Southwest and do something kind of routine, you know,

17:38 Speaker 5: with a maybe live take a little bit of it.

17:41 Speaker 5: Because there's two dimensions to me. I supposed to grew

17:43 Speaker 5: up as a bit of a rock but as I've

17:45 Speaker 5: got old and I've sorted to become a bit poky. Yeah,

17:50 Speaker 5: I guess be hard to talk with the two. But

17:52 Speaker 5: I feel like with the album, I was able to

17:54 Speaker 5: get a lot of the rock stuff helped me system.

17:57 Speaker 5: And now I'd like to do something maybe a little

17:58 Speaker 5: bit more routine and sure, you know, and also, you know,

18:02 Speaker 5: like a lot of the stuff on the album it's

18:05 Speaker 5: a little bit I don't know, like the subject matters

18:08 Speaker 5: and stuff, and often a little bit self indulgent. You know,

18:10 Speaker 5: it's offing about nothing about me. I'd like to do

18:12 Speaker 5: something maybe a little bit more about the world. You know, notice,

18:16 Speaker 5: but if it's a crazy time in the world.

18:17 Speaker 10: You know, I've noticed, especially where you are. Man, you know,

18:23 Speaker 10: you're you're not getting dude, You're not kidding.

18:27 Speaker 5: And also you know, like also like the rise of

18:29 Speaker 5: AI and stuff like that, and you know, I don't

18:31 Speaker 5: even want to I don't even want to put you know,

18:34 Speaker 5: value ridgings and everything. I just kind of want to

18:36 Speaker 5: maybe step back and just observe and just sort of

18:39 Speaker 5: write what I'm seeing, you know, not you know, not

18:42 Speaker 5: try and get pretty earth and but you know, just

18:45 Speaker 5: sort of say what I see.

18:46 Speaker 10: You know, is that something that you're concerned about AI

18:49 Speaker 10: in terms of because that's something we talk about a

18:51 Speaker 10: lot on the show.

18:52 Speaker 5: I'm glad you brought it up, and I've had some

18:54 Speaker 5: radical thoughts on it lately. That's pissed a few people off,

18:57 Speaker 5: you know, but I kind of think, you know, you know,

19:00 Speaker 5: the two ways I could criticize it is like the

19:02 Speaker 5: technological sides, you know, and what that means for the

19:05 Speaker 5: industry and that. But really, you know, you know, I

19:07 Speaker 5: know a lot of successful bands now we're playing to

19:09 Speaker 5: backend tracks, and and you know, a lot of people

19:12 Speaker 5: using plugins instead of real instruments, and and a lot

19:15 Speaker 5: of people you know, like like there's drum machines out there,

19:19 Speaker 5: there's I mean, the way the line is, I'm not

19:21 Speaker 5: sure anymore. So that was one side of thoughts about

19:23 Speaker 5: the technologically. I was like, maybe actually this is just

19:25 Speaker 5: something that's always happened. And then the other side of

19:27 Speaker 5: it was kind of about authenticity. But I really I thought,

19:30 Speaker 5: you know, like looking at the state of the you know,

19:33 Speaker 5: like I always say, Sabrina Carpenter might as well be AI,

19:36 Speaker 5: you know, it's like, I don't know what. And also

19:40 Speaker 5: even the politicians are all fake, you know, and and

19:43 Speaker 5: everything seems kind of a little bit in authentic in

19:45 Speaker 5: the world, and so that doesn't really scare me. I

19:48 Speaker 5: feel like artists have got something to say are still

19:51 Speaker 5: going to stand out, you know, So I don't know,

19:54 Speaker 5: maybe their eye isn't really something to be feared. I

19:58 Speaker 5: personally don't feel all two threatened by it. You know. Also,

20:01 Speaker 5: the industry has been in the industry has been in

20:03 Speaker 5: a bit of a bad way for a long time,

20:04 Speaker 5: hasn't it, in regards to making any money and stuff

20:07 Speaker 5: in the way Spotify, you know. I see that with

20:09 Speaker 5: Spotify a lot. You know, Like when I was trying

20:11 Speaker 5: to promote the album, I'd sort of fall prey to

20:14 Speaker 5: these things on social media, and you'd see these guys

20:17 Speaker 5: and they'd be talking about, you know, how to promote

20:19 Speaker 5: your music. And people were getting very good at like

20:22 Speaker 5: gaming the system almost, you know, so they could get

20:24 Speaker 5: on these playlists and and and these guys had like

20:27 Speaker 5: millions of plays. But when I listened to the music,

20:29 Speaker 5: I was like, it's so mediocre. I know, that's just

20:31 Speaker 5: my taste, but from my point of view, I was like,

20:34 Speaker 5: you know, this music must have millions of plays, but

20:36 Speaker 5: what does that even mean. I don't think anyone's going

20:38 Speaker 5: to care about this in ten years time, So what

20:40 Speaker 5: are we even doing here? Anymore. And so really with

20:43 Speaker 5: the I I think I'm thinking, what does it really change?

20:46 Speaker 5: Like what, there's a load of fake music, Well, there's

20:47 Speaker 5: all idea, a load of fake music made by humans,

20:49 Speaker 5: you know, right, maybe this is going to shake the

20:53 Speaker 5: tree a little bit, you know, and maybe maybe it's

20:56 Speaker 5: going to be okay, but really, you know it's not.

20:58 Speaker 5: It's you know, I think there's more to fit if

21:00 Speaker 5: from AI for then how it's going to affect music, you.

21:02 Speaker 10: Know, right? Oh yeah, a true good points like.

21:06 Speaker 5: What do you think you like it? Or do you

21:07 Speaker 5: hate it?

21:08 Speaker 10: Well, I'll tell you I I I like what you

21:11 Speaker 10: said about how you know, AI is already in some degrees,

21:16 Speaker 10: it's already been there, especially with you know, you have

21:19 Speaker 10: bands who use backing tracks and plugins and all that.

21:22 Speaker 10: So it's not as though it's not as though technology

21:24 Speaker 10: has not been helping artists to kind of I don't

21:27 Speaker 10: want to say cheat because I don't make any value

21:29 Speaker 10: judgment about it.

21:30 Speaker 5: But yeah, yeah, but but.

21:32 Speaker 10: But but to kind of enhance the live experience, shall

21:35 Speaker 10: we say? But that's but but of course a lot

21:38 Speaker 10: of that's been forever, like you know, bands using backing

21:41 Speaker 10: tracks for backing vocals, for example, during live shows. I mean,

21:45 Speaker 10: that's that's been happening for decades, so so there's nothing

21:49 Speaker 10: new to a lot of it. But it is staggering

21:52 Speaker 10: to me. Something that I find kind of fun, even

21:55 Speaker 10: though I feel a little bit guilty about it, is

21:57 Speaker 10: like going on YouTube and finding these AI generated versions

22:01 Speaker 10: of songs, you know, new versions like uh, you know,

22:06 Speaker 10: like like there's this one uh channel on YouTube where

22:09 Speaker 10: they make AI generated versions of of hard rock and

22:13 Speaker 10: metal versions of songs from like the Backstreet Boys, the

22:17 Speaker 10: New Kids on the Block, and and the thing is,

22:20 Speaker 10: I listen to these and they're really good, Like they're

22:25 Speaker 10: actually really well done and fun to listen to. And

22:28 Speaker 10: it's like, you know, but knowing that somebody made that. Now,

22:32 Speaker 10: granted some of these probably they're made with prompts, but

22:36 Speaker 10: then they're they're tweaked in certain ways. I don't think

22:39 Speaker 10: they're I don't think it's they're that simple, but but

22:43 Speaker 10: it is, you know, it is, Uh, it's scary because

22:49 Speaker 10: because then it gets you to the question, if you

22:51 Speaker 10: if you think about it this far, is there a

22:54 Speaker 10: use for for actual musicians at a certain point if

22:58 Speaker 10: you can just if you just make AI create whatever

23:01 Speaker 10: you want whatever it is that you, as an individual

23:04 Speaker 10: listener want to hear. If that's within reach, why do

23:07 Speaker 10: you even need other people to make music for you

23:09 Speaker 10: to listen to.

23:11 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think there's definitely you know, that's where there's

23:13 Speaker 5: some of these I think they're the points of real

23:15 Speaker 5: tension that we should we can talk about, you know.

23:18 Speaker 5: But also that in itself is nothing new, you know,

23:21 Speaker 5: Like there was tons of industries that would dramatically change

23:24 Speaker 5: by technological progress, you know, and often no one really cared.

23:29 Speaker 5: How often people really valued the convenience over anything else,

23:34 Speaker 5: you know, Like my granddad worked on Liverpool Docks, and

23:39 Speaker 5: prior to Liverpool's decline in like the seventies eighties, the

23:42 Speaker 5: Liverpool Docks employed thousands upon thousands of people. And not

23:46 Speaker 5: only was there there was political things that happened in

23:50 Speaker 5: the Thatchy years that really really cementtered the decline, but

23:53 Speaker 5: besides that, you know, machinery was changed into a way

23:57 Speaker 5: that a job that maybe needed twenty guys to do

23:59 Speaker 5: could now be done with one guy with a machine, right,

24:01 Speaker 5: and there was an inevitability to it, you know, and

24:05 Speaker 5: even really some of the processes of globalization, you know,

24:08 Speaker 5: like England has no manufacturing anymore, and that was because

24:11 Speaker 5: it was cheaper to do it somewhere else, you know,

24:13 Speaker 5: And I guess that's happened everywhere. And you know that's

24:16 Speaker 5: also these processes that have happened. Like part of me

24:19 Speaker 5: kind of sees all of this is like, well, look,

24:21 Speaker 5: you know, we all went along with all of this,

24:23 Speaker 5: you know, for generations, we've all gone along with all

24:25 Speaker 5: of this. This is this is the bed we've made.

24:28 Speaker 5: We're going to harp and lie in it, you know,

24:29 Speaker 5: and adapt to it a little bit. Maybe you know,

24:32 Speaker 5: it's not going away, is the truth. You know, it's

24:34 Speaker 5: not going away. And they're positives, you know. I've seen recently.

24:38 Speaker 5: I can't what it was colled, but something popped up

24:41 Speaker 5: on social media and this guy had Tuesday Eyes to

24:43 Speaker 5: make a graphic novel. And the guy's ideas were great,

24:46 Speaker 5: and I was thinking, you know, like this is my thing.

24:49 Speaker 5: You know, Like the music industry is also like very

24:51 Speaker 5: nepotistic these days, you know, it's very Sometimes it seems

24:54 Speaker 5: hemetically sealed, you know, it seems like it's an insiders club,

24:58 Speaker 5: you know, And and the art can be like that

25:01 Speaker 5: in lots of ways, and also social class becomes a

25:03 Speaker 5: big barrier. You know, all the all the successful musicians,

25:06 Speaker 5: I know, almost always they come from a wealthy background,

25:10 Speaker 5: you know. And so there's a thing like that which

25:14 Speaker 5: is like, you know, this guy making his graphic novel,

25:16 Speaker 5: he would not have had the money or the backing

25:19 Speaker 5: to ever make this thing, but in terms of the

25:22 Speaker 5: ideas and the scenes and stuff he's playing with, it's

25:24 Speaker 5: very interesting, you know to me, And I thought, well,

25:27 Speaker 5: you know what this tool has enabled this person who

25:30 Speaker 5: has something exceptional in the idea, and this thing would

25:35 Speaker 5: never have been made. And you know, like so often

25:37 Speaker 5: you see what the industry, whether it's Hollywood or anything else,

25:40 Speaker 5: is chaining out. You know, there's for me, there's a

25:42 Speaker 5: there's been a bit of a decline in quality in

25:44 Speaker 5: the mainstream, you know, and partly I think that's because

25:48 Speaker 5: of this these these problems. You know. It's like, you know,

25:51 Speaker 5: in England, we used to produce great bands from working

25:53 Speaker 5: class communities, like Oasis. You know, I might have been

25:55 Speaker 5: fan of Oasis, but I like it, you know, and

25:57 Speaker 5: I like what they've done. But you know, I don't

25:59 Speaker 5: know if a band like Oasis could could exist in

26:01 Speaker 5: this climates anymore.

26:03 Speaker 10: You know, yeah, interesting.

26:05 Speaker 5: I'm not saying AI the answer to that, but I'm

26:07 Speaker 5: just saying, look, there's a lot of problems that we're

26:09 Speaker 5: not solving here, and actually there's some benefits to AI.

26:12 Speaker 5: There's an element of it which is very democratizing. You know,

26:16 Speaker 5: used to learn about that, you know, the idea that

26:17 Speaker 5: like home studios. Making home studios made music a lot

26:23 Speaker 5: more accessible to lots and lots of people, which everyone

26:26 Speaker 5: champion does a great thing. It was very bad for

26:28 Speaker 5: professional according studios, you know, like, what do we want

26:32 Speaker 5: to do here? You know, it's the same for musicians

26:34 Speaker 5: and in a lot of ways from the artist's point

26:36 Speaker 5: of view. You know, so often if an artist wants

26:39 Speaker 5: his vision requires a violin, he has to pay a violin.

26:43 Speaker 5: It's not and yeah, that's great for this sort of

26:44 Speaker 5: ecosystem with musicians and stuff. But if he's not able

26:47 Speaker 5: to do that, he can't make the art. And maybe

26:49 Speaker 5: the art important, you know, maybe the art is more

26:52 Speaker 5: important than someone getting paid. You know, I don't know,

26:56 Speaker 5: I don't know. I'm not saying it is. I'm making that,

26:58 Speaker 5: you know, not going to be weathered to that idea yet,

27:00 Speaker 5: I'm just saying I feel like there's a bigger conversation

27:02 Speaker 5: here than than what you often seeing from from local musicians.

27:06 Speaker 10: Yeah, because ultimately, you know, one thing that you can't

27:08 Speaker 10: do is you can't hold back technology.

27:11 Speaker 5: So it's a lose. It's a losing. It's like the

27:15 Speaker 5: old Western. I always think it's like the old Western films,

27:17 Speaker 5: you know, and you get this old cowboy and it's

27:19 Speaker 5: super romantic and the railroads coming through the town, you know,

27:23 Speaker 5: and he's like holding onto the old ways, and we

27:26 Speaker 5: love it. It's romantic. It's like we want him to

27:28 Speaker 5: you know. Ultimately it's the cowboys are over, you know,

27:31 Speaker 5: right right, or like you know, like medieval nights. I

27:35 Speaker 5: used to think that was the most romantic thing in

27:36 Speaker 5: the world. Was like a guy having a sord fight,

27:39 Speaker 5: you know, and then someone invites invents a gun and

27:41 Speaker 5: it's like, well, you know, a different game now.

27:44 Speaker 10: Yeah, but yeah you can't. Yeah, you can't hold it back,

27:47 Speaker 10: and it's uh so all you can do. And you know,

27:51 Speaker 10: the music industry I think already learned this lesson once.

27:55 Speaker 10: Maybe not well enough, you know, because I remember when

27:57 Speaker 10: you know, I'm old enough to remember when when Napster

28:00 Speaker 10: for a stap and and you know, and everybody in

28:02 Speaker 10: the music industry was freaking out, Oh you can just fileshare,

28:05 Speaker 10: you can all this music is free now, you know what,

28:08 Speaker 10: what what are we going to do? You know, because

28:09 Speaker 10: at the time I was working for I was a

28:11 Speaker 10: manager for a retail chain here and here in the

28:14 Speaker 10: States called Strawberries, which later became absorbed into another larger

28:19 Speaker 10: music retail chain. But that was but that there was panic.

28:22 Speaker 10: I mean, there was absolute panic in the industry and

28:25 Speaker 10: the company that I worked for, it was like, well,

28:27 Speaker 10: why are people going to come in and buy CDs now?

28:30 Speaker 10: You know?

28:31 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

28:32 Speaker 10: You know. So, but but you can't you can't stop it.

28:35 Speaker 10: You can't hold it back. All you can do is

28:37 Speaker 10: adapt and try to figure it out. And I think,

28:41 Speaker 10: I think, but I think we're at another inflection point

28:44 Speaker 10: with that. You know, we can't hold it back, so

28:46 Speaker 10: we got to just figure it out, you know.

28:49 Speaker 5: And yeah, you gotta decide what it means, you know. Yeah,

28:51 Speaker 5: I guess, like, you know, I kind of I respect

28:54 Speaker 5: I'm not going to take pass and I see a

28:55 Speaker 5: lot of people who are sort of trying to draw

28:58 Speaker 5: a line in the sun and say, i'm're gonna we're

28:59 Speaker 5: going to keep this. You know, we're gonna, you know,

29:02 Speaker 5: people who mess around with AI, We're gonna kind of

29:04 Speaker 5: gate keeping them. We're going to say, you know, no,

29:06 Speaker 5: that's not cool. You know, we're gonna we're gonna ostracize

29:09 Speaker 5: it in some way or you know, close ranks and

29:12 Speaker 5: I'm like, yeah, cool, you know, like make you stand.

29:14 Speaker 5: But you might just be that old cowboy you know, right,

29:17 Speaker 5: you're gonna get railroaded, you know. And really, like, like

29:21 Speaker 5: I said, I really think, like I really think if

29:24 Speaker 5: you if you can try and get back to the

29:28 Speaker 5: art form more because you know, so much music now

29:30 Speaker 5: is just commodity. You know, so much pop music, you know,

29:33 Speaker 5: the Sabrina Carpenter stuff is just commodity. Like there's not

29:36 Speaker 5: I mean, it's interesting in a way. Popular culture is

29:38 Speaker 5: always interested in as a way of understanding society, you know,

29:41 Speaker 5: and where it's at. But as far as I can

29:43 Speaker 5: see it where it's at, it's not a great place already.

29:46 Speaker 5: And a lot of the art is just commodity. And

29:49 Speaker 5: it's really difficult because you know, at least in like

29:51 Speaker 5: the sixties and stuff, you know, some of the popular

29:54 Speaker 5: stuff that was breaking through was was really artistically viable,

29:58 Speaker 5: you know, like Dylan, Bob Dylan. I mean he's writing

30:01 Speaker 5: lyrics in those early years that are up there with

30:03 Speaker 5: like T. S Elliott and all these poets. You know.

30:05 Speaker 5: It's like, yeah, you know, and that's what I think

30:07 Speaker 5: is like a I will be able to replace Sabrina Carpenter,

30:12 Speaker 5: but I'm not sure it could replace Bob Dunnan.

30:14 Speaker 10: Yeah, that's a good point for.

30:16 Speaker 5: The next Bob doing, the next Bob done. You know,

30:18 Speaker 5: whatever the future version of of a great artist is.

30:20 Speaker 5: I'm not sure it'll be able to do that. I

30:22 Speaker 5: think it'll always be playing catch up too, you know,

30:27 Speaker 5: those sorts of humans, you know.

30:28 Speaker 10: Yeah, because without everything that came before it, it has

30:31 Speaker 10: nothing to draw from, so it needs exactly Yeah.

30:33 Speaker 5: So maybe it'll drive innovation and it'll yeah. And also

30:37 Speaker 5: you know, I find it, you know, even locally, Like

30:41 Speaker 5: you know, I'm not trying to to break into some

30:45 Speaker 5: pop thing or to be a mainstream thing at all.

30:47 Speaker 5: You know, I don't really think it's viable for me,

30:49 Speaker 5: but I certainly have found there's still a lot of

30:53 Speaker 5: people who are who are looking for something, you know,

30:57 Speaker 5: the that maybe is trying to be a bit more

31:00 Speaker 5: artsy or something, you know, and there's still a place

31:05 Speaker 5: for it, you know, Yeah, And you know it's maybe

31:09 Speaker 5: it'll carry on like that. You know, maybe it'll be

31:11 Speaker 5: something that forced people to really think about what does

31:15 Speaker 5: matter in a work of art. And if you really

31:17 Speaker 5: don't like the idea that a computer is making it, well,

31:20 Speaker 5: what do you like about the fact that it's a

31:21 Speaker 5: human making it? And you know, maybe we have to

31:24 Speaker 5: start actually making some distinctions. You know, I think that's

31:26 Speaker 5: gonna happen. But you know, it's an interesting thing to

31:29 Speaker 5: think about.

31:29 Speaker 10: It is it is, It's it's a very interesting time

31:32 Speaker 10: to be alive. That's that's for sure. Well, Paul, this

31:37 Speaker 10: has been wonderful. I love the album. I do want

31:40 Speaker 10: so I'm gonna can absolutely so I'm going to kind

31:42 Speaker 10: of put you on the spot here because in a

31:44 Speaker 10: moment after we let you go, I'm going to play

31:47 Speaker 10: another track from the album to close out the segment.

31:49 Speaker 10: But obviously we did play the single Nebu Goodnezzar to open,

31:54 Speaker 10: But what song would you like us to play at

31:56 Speaker 10: the end of our conversation?

31:58 Speaker 5: And this there's two you know, I have some conflicted

32:03 Speaker 5: feelings on the album. There's a lot of things that

32:04 Speaker 5: didn't quite It's a difficult time, you like, to be

32:07 Speaker 5: totally honest with you, a lot of health problems while

32:10 Speaker 5: I was trying to make it and stuff. Yeah, and

32:14 Speaker 5: just a lot of complex things, you know. But but

32:19 Speaker 5: you know, there's a few bits that came out. I

32:22 Speaker 5: think there's one song called why Go Home, and there's

32:25 Speaker 5: this song there called linger On, And I think those

32:27 Speaker 5: ones are interesting to me. Maybe not the the catches

32:30 Speaker 5: or anything, but I think they they're the ones that

32:32 Speaker 5: came out that I really like, you.

32:33 Speaker 10: Know, you know what.

32:35 Speaker 5: The album just has too many styles on it, you know.

32:37 Speaker 5: I to be honest, Yeah, my health was getting so

32:40 Speaker 5: bad I started this is so dramatically, so typical of

32:43 Speaker 5: an artist. I'm a lot better know, but at the

32:45 Speaker 5: time I thought that, you know, I might make this

32:47 Speaker 5: album and just die, you know. Yeah, well no, because

32:52 Speaker 5: I'm still alive, you know, but yeah, being a dramatic artist,

32:56 Speaker 5: you know. But yeah, you know, like I was, I

33:00 Speaker 5: was just kind of like, well, you know what, I'm

33:01 Speaker 5: just going to record all my favorite songs that I

33:04 Speaker 5: never recorded over the last ten years, and I'm just

33:05 Speaker 5: going to put them all on there, and maybe that

33:07 Speaker 5: should have been three EP's or something. Stylistically it's to

33:10 Speaker 5: be all over the place. But yeah, I Go Homes

33:13 Speaker 5: a nice country track, and linger On is kind of

33:15 Speaker 5: like a weird little pop pop sort of folky thing.

33:19 Speaker 5: I don't know, I'll have time.

33:21 Speaker 10: I'm actually I'll play both of them. I'll play both

33:23 Speaker 10: of them. At the end.

33:25 Speaker 5: I wasn't a going for that. I just couldn't decide.

33:27 Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, that's that's okay. No, I'll play both of them.

33:30 Speaker 10: We'll have time. I would love to, awesome, Paul. Where's

33:33 Speaker 10: the best place for people to go online to keep

33:35 Speaker 10: up with everything that you are doing.

33:39 Speaker 5: So right now? Just YouTube? Man or Spotify? I guess

33:43 Speaker 5: you know. I have a Facebook. I don't really engagements

33:48 Speaker 5: with social media right now. I'm kind of like I

33:50 Speaker 5: had some problems with Instagram and it closed down the accounts,

33:52 Speaker 5: which was quite oh really a lot of followers on there? Yeah, yeah,

33:55 Speaker 5: I had a lot of followers on there. But I also,

33:58 Speaker 5: as you can tell by my thoughts on AI AM

33:59 Speaker 5: so have been a place where I'm sort of trying

34:01 Speaker 5: to figure out what it all means man, And yeah,

34:05 Speaker 5: I'm just trying to figure out what where to go next,

34:07 Speaker 5: and I think I'd like to maybe start building on YouTube,

34:10 Speaker 5: you know, especially when I do this new thing. I

34:11 Speaker 5: was saying, I'm going to go to the Southwest and

34:13 Speaker 5: do a channel Paul McCartney's RAMI hangout on a farm

34:17 Speaker 5: and community on YouTube. Yeah, I think on YouTube and

34:21 Speaker 5: film a lot of stuff. So you could subscribe on

34:25 Speaker 5: YouTube or that'd probably be the one for now, and

34:27 Speaker 5: then at some point they'll be there'll be more socials

34:30 Speaker 5: when I'm here with the next project.

34:32 Speaker 10: Yeah, out outstanding, outstanding, all right, Well, Paul Nasoli, No,

34:37 Speaker 10: that's not right, is it? How do I say it?

34:42 Speaker 10: Nas nas nas Okay, thank you, and I'm sorry for

34:46 Speaker 10: butchering your name. I'm in America.

34:48 Speaker 5: I don't worry. We don't mostly in Liverpool. I understand

34:54 Speaker 5: it used to be.

34:58 Speaker 10: Well, Paul, thank you so much for joining us. This

35:00 Speaker 10: has been wonderful. We will definitely have to do this. Absolutely,

35:02 Speaker 10: we'll have to do this again in the future.

35:04 Speaker 5: And yeah, we're gonna we're.

35:05 Speaker 10: Gonna play both of those tracks from the self titled album,

35:09 Speaker 10: very very very cool. I listened to the whole thing

35:11 Speaker 10: and I love it so great.

35:12 Speaker 5: Great, absolutely, so we'll hit those tracks.

35:16 Speaker 10: We'll let you go for now, Paul, thank you so much,

35:18 Speaker 10: and we'll talk again soon. I'm sure.

35:19 Speaker 5: All right, thanks a lot.

35:21 Speaker 10: You got it YouTube, bye bye, all right, wonderful. So

35:24 Speaker 10: we're gonna play. We're gonna go ahead and play both

35:26 Speaker 10: of these. By the way, if you are listening live,

35:28 Speaker 10: stick around if you are listening on Saturday, because in

35:31 Speaker 10: the third hour gen X is gonna be joining us

35:33 Speaker 10: from the band Generations and really looking forward to talking

35:36 Speaker 10: with her. But yeah, we'll play. Uh, we'll play both

35:39 Speaker 10: of these. Let's do this one first. This is called

35:42 Speaker 10: why go Home?

36:03 Speaker 6: Why go Home? With Mama's sleeve? And no wonder stop

36:11 Speaker 6: your beating?

36:12 Speaker 11: Why go home?

36:14 Speaker 10: Twenty could Steve.

36:22 Speaker 9: Summer's gone, And I'm to reading along to face.

36:30 Speaker 10: These feeling, I.

36:33 Speaker 6: PhD just to send against him. Some crickets stops hid bother.

36:43 Speaker 6: The day that you were born flies we to.

36:47 Speaker 9: Wa went the afew only thought sorrow shut on and

36:52 Speaker 9: restip you try to take your finger to all and.

36:56 Speaker 6: Far back down again. Fine your hard misplease.

37:06 Speaker 11: So I'm bound with the season looking around for faith.

37:14 Speaker 6: Then reason none I found on the.

37:19 Speaker 10: Old bones, said be.

37:25 Speaker 6: Any food? On inside around here and see it for yourself.

37:30 Speaker 6: The room be missing from your crying.

37:32 Speaker 9: The twindling I you him, and all your pearls of

37:36 Speaker 9: wisdom have been passed among the swine.

37:39 Speaker 6: The cracks beneath the mounds move better next time. Why

38:09 Speaker 6: go home when mam must leave and no one there?

38:15 Speaker 6: Who stop? You'll bleed? Why go home when you could stay,

38:22 Speaker 6: oh man.

38:27 Speaker 11: To Why go home when you.

38:31 Speaker 10: Could stay, oh night?

38:37 Speaker 5: Why go home where?

39:04 Speaker 6: Never really had the words to say, never knew what

39:09 Speaker 6: game to play? Baby with you? Ever since you went away,

39:17 Speaker 6: only feel like it was yesterday. Yes, God deeds gone.

39:21 Speaker 6: I linger.

39:24 Speaker 5: For you.

39:30 Speaker 6: Never really mattered anyway. I can take it, baby, came

39:35 Speaker 6: I have for men. You'll know it's true.

39:39 Speaker 11: Take your seventh on a Saturday, Well it might have

39:44 Speaker 11: been on one on Liday in the sunder Ilger.

39:50 Speaker 6: For you, Alida, just sorry.

40:24 Speaker 11: Remember when we never had a kid, so'd you belabe

40:29 Speaker 11: that I'll take you anywhere that you want to go.

40:33 Speaker 6: Eu and me we never had a prince.

40:37 Speaker 7: Talk two weeks, you know, we never had a pair

40:39 Speaker 7: to reach to the sun.

40:42 Speaker 6: Alinga on.

40:45 Speaker 5: For you.

42:16 Speaker 6: I'm standing in the air shuller, I'm listening to the word.

42:25 Speaker 6: I wonder as girl, A wonder, white spell, a may

42:34 Speaker 6: of a mind.

42:37 Speaker 5: Okay, I'm standing in the shastening to Ben.

43:28 Speaker 4: I'll get at the back, staying in the s.

43:37 Speaker 6: S to see me.

44:42 Speaker 5: Ad got miss.

44:46 Speaker 6: What's bad? That's all he got?

44:55 Speaker 8: He got ma.

45:30 Speaker 6: Kill?

45:43 Speaker 10: I love it. That is the Ocean by the band

45:46 Speaker 10: replaced by robots. Hey, welcome, he everybody. This is Matt

45:50 Speaker 10: Connorton Unleashed. We are live from the studios of wm

45:53 Speaker 10: n H ninety five point three FM and Glorious Manchester,

45:56 Speaker 10: New Hampshire. If you aren't listening live on Saturday. Coming

45:59 Speaker 10: up in the third hour, gen X from the band

46:01 Speaker 10: Generations is going to be joining us from Missouri via

46:04 Speaker 10: Microsoft Teams. Really looking forward to talking with her. I

46:07 Speaker 10: love the project. Jenny is here, of course at the

46:11 Speaker 10: news table account for and just saw this some music news. Uh.

46:16 Speaker 10: Ticketmaster faces lawsuit over alleged website tracking and surveillance tools.

46:23 Speaker 10: This is from Music Businessworldwide dot com. I feel like

46:29 Speaker 10: whenever we talk about lawsuits in the music industry, Ticketmaster's

46:32 Speaker 10: name comes up a lot, a lot, a lot. They're

46:34 Speaker 10: constantly getting yes, yes, here's here's the well, here's the

46:40 Speaker 10: newest thing. A new class action lawsuit has been filed

46:42 Speaker 10: against Ticketmaster, a leegendis website deploys unauthorized surveillance tools that

46:47 Speaker 10: violate California privacy laws. The latest complaint, filed in the

46:53 Speaker 10: US District Court for the Central District of California on Monday,

46:58 Speaker 10: January five, only listed Ticketmaster as the defendant. The class

47:02 Speaker 10: action was led by Solano County, California resident named Jeffrey Scruggs.

47:09 Speaker 10: The complaint claims that Ticketmaster employs advertising and analytics trackers

47:16 Speaker 10: from Google, Facebook, TikTok, and Microsoft bing Oh Bing, I

47:22 Speaker 10: remember bing I know, I do too. I didn't even

47:25 Speaker 10: know it still existed, as well as those operated by Pinterest,

47:29 Speaker 10: Snap and Commscore to illegally quote collect, receive and process

47:35 Speaker 10: unquote information. Excuse me how to cough information from users

47:42 Speaker 10: such as IP addresses, paid RL's timestamps, and device on

47:47 Speaker 10: or browser characteristics, among others. By the way, before we

47:50 Speaker 10: go any further with this, I would just say, yeah,

47:55 Speaker 10: I just kind of would have assumed that, like as

47:59 Speaker 10: any of this house shocking to you, No.

48:02 Speaker 4: Shocking el heck no no.

48:04 Speaker 12: But it raises an important issue about privacy. So do you,

48:09 Speaker 12: on the one hand, do you want ads that are

48:13 Speaker 12: targeted to what you like? Maybe you would like that

48:16 Speaker 12: instead of ads that are selling trying to sell your products,

48:18 Speaker 12: you would have nothing to do with, right, Like, but.

48:25 Speaker 5: What to what?

48:27 Speaker 4: To what expense?

48:29 Speaker 12: Do you want it to know when you turn your

48:31 Speaker 12: browser on and off? Do you want it to tell

48:35 Speaker 12: what your favorite color is? Do you want it to

48:37 Speaker 12: tell what musicians you're looking up or whether you looked

48:40 Speaker 12: up something for athletes?

48:41 Speaker 10: Foot?

48:42 Speaker 12: You know how it can get? How much information is

48:46 Speaker 12: okay with you? Because once it's out, it's out right.

48:49 Speaker 12: Once something gets the net, it's on the net. There's

48:52 Speaker 12: no deletion, it's there. Yeah, you know, I remember years ago,

48:57 Speaker 12: years and years and years ago when the super markets

49:01 Speaker 12: came out with this device that you could go around

49:04 Speaker 12: to shop with and it would get to know you

49:08 Speaker 12: and it would tell you if you were in a

49:09 Speaker 12: particular aisle, do you want to get X again?

49:12 Speaker 4: Or why again?

49:13 Speaker 12: And how privacy wonks got really upset about it. They're like, oh, well,

49:18 Speaker 12: they're gonna know what you're eating, they're gonna know what

49:20 Speaker 12: you're tagging him, you know, And then it was like,

49:22 Speaker 12: oh I went shopping and then I got like five

49:24 Speaker 12: cheese coupons in the mail because I bought a lot

49:27 Speaker 12: of cheese. So where did that seveiled information come from?

49:31 Speaker 12: So to them doing this as they're trying to show

49:34 Speaker 12: you the ads like they want to show you the

49:36 Speaker 12: Doobie Brothers or they want to show you, I don't know,

49:40 Speaker 12: kid rock, whoever.

49:41 Speaker 5: It is.

49:43 Speaker 10: To me is so different than you know, when you

49:44 Speaker 10: go on a shopping site like Amazon and you see

49:48 Speaker 10: products selected for you, suggested for you, I should say

49:51 Speaker 10: that by your history that you might like, yes, things

49:55 Speaker 10: that you're actually interested in. That's how all of it works.

49:58 Speaker 4: Okay, Well why does it always try and show me

50:00 Speaker 4: something I've already bought?

50:01 Speaker 10: I don't know, Maybe you want to buy it again? No,

50:04 Speaker 10: maybe you need another one. I don't know.

50:06 Speaker 4: I never understand that one. Why are you showing me

50:08 Speaker 4: something I already bought?

50:10 Speaker 10: Well?

50:10 Speaker 4: Crazy? But yo, So it comes down to privacy, right.

50:15 Speaker 10: Yeah, but the so I have an unpopular opinion about that,

50:19 Speaker 10: and that is this. I'm just speaking for me personally.

50:22 Speaker 10: I couldn't care less, couldn't care less about any of it.

50:26 Speaker 10: I have no privacy to protect because guess what none

50:29 Speaker 10: of us do anymore. I mean, come on, because this

50:33 Speaker 10: toothpaste is so far out of the tube. Who cares?

50:38 Speaker 10: Some people I know don't want what I just said

50:43 Speaker 10: is an unpopular opinion. Well, I think probably most people.

50:46 Speaker 12: Don't put the browsers in the setting that allows them

50:50 Speaker 12: to browse and do things without being cast.

50:53 Speaker 10: I'm glad you said that, because that's an easy solution. Yeah,

50:56 Speaker 10: just put it in an incogni neo mode and go crazy.

50:59 Speaker 4: That's all that. Well, now it's easy for you to

51:03 Speaker 4: say that, but you got to look.

51:04 Speaker 10: That it's easy to do it.

51:06 Speaker 12: You've got to look at it in the legal sense

51:08 Speaker 12: of the word of how much is that not? How

51:10 Speaker 12: much is what is crossing the line? Is there a

51:12 Speaker 12: line on your privacy that you don't want cross that

51:17 Speaker 12: you do want the laws to protect because you don't

51:20 Speaker 12: want companies, you know, gathering that.

51:25 Speaker 4: Do you want the local hospital to.

51:26 Speaker 12: Start sending you bereavement things because it got connected that

51:30 Speaker 12: you had somebody that passed.

51:32 Speaker 10: But it wouldn't offend me. I wouldn't be like, oh,

51:35 Speaker 10: this is insensitive. I can't believe I'm getting this.

51:37 Speaker 4: I be, But somebody else might be like, why does

51:40 Speaker 4: anybody know this?

51:41 Speaker 10: Why not? Like I said, it's my my my way

51:43 Speaker 10: of looking at is it's an unpopular opinion. I just

51:47 Speaker 10: don't care. I've never cared. I don't care.

51:49 Speaker 12: You're an oddity because you're one of those people that

51:52 Speaker 12: is I am who I am as I am you.

51:55 Speaker 12: You don't have to remember his story because it's always truth, right,

51:59 Speaker 12: you know, so and and that. Unfortunately these days kah

52:02 Speaker 12: could be kind of rare. So if you're somebody that's

52:04 Speaker 12: trying to hide behind a cloud, you don't want the surveiled, yeah,

52:08 Speaker 12: or if you I mean, there is a certain perspective

52:11 Speaker 12: to respect that people do have a right to privacy.

52:14 Speaker 4: People do have a right to be safe within their

52:17 Speaker 4: own environment. They have that right. So how far is

52:21 Speaker 4: it okay to let a company go?

52:24 Speaker 10: Do you have a line? So I would argue again,

52:27 Speaker 10: and this will be an unpopular opinion. People will disagree

52:30 Speaker 10: with me. But if you have, if you want to

52:32 Speaker 10: have that expectation of privacy, you have to take some

52:35 Speaker 10: simple steps to do that, like putting your browser incognito

52:39 Speaker 10: mode for example, or using a VPN. But if you like,

52:43 Speaker 10: this is the part that will be unpopular with people.

52:45 Speaker 10: I think at this point in twenty twenty six, you

52:49 Speaker 10: have no more just using your browser as is and

52:54 Speaker 10: and just looking at whatever you're looking at, you have

52:56 Speaker 10: no you should have no more greater expectation of more

53:00 Speaker 10: greater you should have no greater expectation of privacy doing that,

53:04 Speaker 10: then you should in a public place having a conversation.

53:07 Speaker 4: With disagree right to be.

53:11 Speaker 12: If you're in your home doing whatever it is you're

53:14 Speaker 12: doing as long so long as it's not an illegal

53:17 Speaker 12: horrible thing, you have right to And the VPN isn't

53:19 Speaker 12: going to solve this problem because remember in the article

53:22 Speaker 12: they talked about it's collecting the IP address paige Ur.

53:25 Speaker 12: Else having a VPN doesn't matter. That VPN only hides.

53:30 Speaker 4: Where you are.

53:31 Speaker 10: If you put it in an incognito could go.

53:34 Speaker 12: For incognito, but do you know whether or not this

53:37 Speaker 12: technology to get around that? Can they still look at it?

53:40 Speaker 12: And if there's no law prohibiting it, then it is

53:43 Speaker 12: legal State of New Hampshire. If it is not a

53:45 Speaker 12: law specifically saying it's illegal, then it is legal in

53:49 Speaker 12: the State of New Hampshire.

53:51 Speaker 4: That's how our laws are.

53:52 Speaker 12: So if there's no law that says I don't have

53:53 Speaker 12: the right to invade your privacy And look at what

53:56 Speaker 12: did you buy off a ticket Master? When did you

53:58 Speaker 12: buy it? What venues are you going to? And can

54:03 Speaker 12: that information then be gotten out there? Can that information

54:06 Speaker 12: then be sold? Can somebody use it to surveil the.

54:09 Speaker 10: Other thing too? People always complained, abu oh, I don't

54:10 Speaker 10: want my information being sold. What that that's been going?

54:14 Speaker 10: That was going on pre internet, like like if you've

54:17 Speaker 10: ever gotten a piece of junk mail that.

54:20 Speaker 12: People fried, but that doesn't make it right, That doesn't

54:25 Speaker 12: make it right. Well, no, that's not how it now.

54:29 Speaker 12: Listen to you, it doesn't have to be that's how

54:32 Speaker 12: it works. If that's how it works, and Ticketmaster can

54:35 Speaker 12: say that's how.

54:36 Speaker 4: It works, we've got the monopoly.

54:37 Speaker 10: That's why you guys should.

54:38 Speaker 12: Just you know, sell your tickets through us and suck

54:41 Speaker 12: it up that you're getting, you know, two cents on

54:44 Speaker 12: the penny or whatever it is.

54:46 Speaker 4: You know, there's I don't I don't like that.

54:49 Speaker 10: That's just like it is like even pre internet, Like

54:53 Speaker 10: you subscribe to a magazine and you start getting offers

54:56 Speaker 10: in your mailbox for other magazines that might be interesting you.

55:00 Speaker 10: Why does that happen because the company that you bought

55:03 Speaker 10: that magazine subscription from took your information and sold it

55:06 Speaker 10: to somebody.

55:07 Speaker 12: Ever, ninety percent of companies out there have the ability

55:10 Speaker 12: that you can say no, do not share. You have

55:13 Speaker 12: the ability to say no, do not share on a

55:17 Speaker 12: lot of these websites, a lot of these companies.

55:20 Speaker 4: You have that right to say no.

55:23 Speaker 12: So they can sell everybody else, but you sure if

55:26 Speaker 12: they do sell you, then they're violations. They're violating your

55:30 Speaker 12: privacy and they're not respecting the choice you made to

55:33 Speaker 12: say no, I don't want you to share my hell

55:36 Speaker 12: if you I don't want you to know that I'm

55:37 Speaker 12: buying hemorrhoid cream or I'm buying athletes foot stuff like

55:42 Speaker 12: maybe people don't so what the other side of that coin,

55:47 Speaker 12: The unintended consequence can be as bad as somebody doesn't

55:51 Speaker 12: go get treatment for something because they're too afraid of

55:54 Speaker 12: the surveillance of somebody finding out that what that is

55:57 Speaker 12: that they have a treatment for. You gotta think worse case,

56:00 Speaker 12: best case, chio sure, and if the unintended consequences can

56:03 Speaker 12: be harmful and hurt somebody, then there is a call

56:08 Speaker 12: to say we have a right to privacy. Yeah, I

56:13 Speaker 12: don't think that just because the Internet was created that

56:15 Speaker 12: means that you lose your right to privacy.

56:18 Speaker 10: No, I just think it's no. I agree with that.

56:20 Speaker 10: Uh in principle. I just think it's uh. I think

56:24 Speaker 10: the expectator people need to adjust their expectations.

56:28 Speaker 4: But I want to know what your line is.

56:29 Speaker 12: If they're saying they're they're collecting what was that word

56:32 Speaker 12: they use, Oh, browser characteristics?

56:35 Speaker 4: What in the heck does that actually mean?

56:37 Speaker 10: I don't even know.

56:38 Speaker 4: I just I just know I personally mean accessing the camera.

56:42 Speaker 10: Oh, that would be bad. Yeah. I don't want that happening.

56:44 Speaker 10: I want prohibiting it. And no, there is Oh, that's

56:48 Speaker 10: definitely against.

56:49 Speaker 5: A lot.

56:51 Speaker 4: A privacy.

56:52 Speaker 12: If what if you're using a website that utilizes your camera,

56:57 Speaker 12: If there isn't a lot of it says that website

56:59 Speaker 12: can't and take whatever you utilize that camera with and

57:02 Speaker 12: sell it to somebody, Then they get to sell it

57:03 Speaker 12: to somebody.

57:04 Speaker 4: What if I'm using an online thing to size out.

57:07 Speaker 12: My eyeglasses, to buy my eyeglasses, to put in my prescription,

57:11 Speaker 12: that's my private information. Whether you think it's important or

57:14 Speaker 12: not important information, that's my private that.

57:17 Speaker 10: Would be protected by hippo, wouldn't it anywhere?

57:20 Speaker 5: No?

57:21 Speaker 6: Not? Maybe, maybe not.

57:23 Speaker 10: I don't know, I would think it. I don't know

57:24 Speaker 10: because because the ceiling with an eyeglass prescription can maybe

57:27 Speaker 10: the aspect of it, That's what I'm thinking.

57:29 Speaker 4: Can they get away with sharing any of the other stuff?

57:32 Speaker 4: I don't know.

57:32 Speaker 10: Probably. I don't like who you bought the glasses from?

57:36 Speaker 10: And yeah probably yeah.

57:37 Speaker 4: You know, so if ticket masters some kind of what

57:42 Speaker 4: are they doing on the back end?

57:43 Speaker 10: Is my thing?

57:43 Speaker 12: Like okay, time stamps. They know when you're up, they

57:47 Speaker 12: know when you're buying your tickets. Yeah, they know what

57:50 Speaker 12: to send out, you know what I mean? They know

57:52 Speaker 12: it target cool?

57:54 Speaker 10: Cool, Really, show me, show me what you want to

57:56 Speaker 10: sell me.

57:57 Speaker 4: You want to maybe we're getting closer and closer to

58:00 Speaker 4: big Brother, then well we're already there.

58:04 Speaker 10: We've been there for a long time.

58:05 Speaker 12: But in the aspect of a private business, do they

58:09 Speaker 12: have the right to investigate you, to surveil you in

58:15 Speaker 12: such a way.

58:18 Speaker 10: You think I'm interesting enough, you want to investigate and

58:20 Speaker 10: surveil me, go ahead, Well.

58:22 Speaker 12: That's my that's my ass that's my personal opinion as well.

58:27 Speaker 12: But that can be my personal opinion. That doesn't mean

58:29 Speaker 12: it has to be forced to be everybody. No, I

58:31 Speaker 12: know I have the air on the side of safety first.

58:34 Speaker 12: So the right to privacy should supersede the right for

58:37 Speaker 12: the company to be able to sell the information or

58:40 Speaker 12: to collect this data.

58:42 Speaker 4: How far deep browser characteristics means? I don't know.

58:47 Speaker 12: And could they Well here, let me throw this at you.

58:50 Speaker 12: Could they utilize any of this information against the artists?

58:54 Speaker 12: Could they collect data using these surveiled technologies that helps

58:58 Speaker 12: them buy new ways to nicol and I'm the artist,

59:02 Speaker 12: so they get even less? We have how many times

59:04 Speaker 12: we talked about how many how much money the artists

59:06 Speaker 12: don't get?

59:07 Speaker 10: Right?

59:08 Speaker 4: Yeah, could that be utilized to do it even further?

59:11 Speaker 10: Well, if you want to look at it. So the

59:12 Speaker 10: article is up at Music Business Worldwide dot com. There's

59:15 Speaker 10: a there's a bit more to it. But but like

59:17 Speaker 10: I said, Ticketmaster, they're always in trouble for something.

59:21 Speaker 12: And they're always trying to get more for less. That's right,

59:24 Speaker 12: So protect the artists, watch out for each other.

59:27 Speaker 10: All right, If you are listening live on Saturday, we're

59:29 Speaker 10: gonna take a break. We're going to show some love

59:31 Speaker 10: to our amazing sponsors, and then coming out of the break,

59:33 Speaker 10: we're gonna play the Uh, one of the new singles

59:37 Speaker 10: from the band Generation's Seance, and we have another track

59:40 Speaker 10: too that just came out that we'll play at the

59:42 Speaker 10: end of our conversation with gen X. She's gonna be

59:44 Speaker 10: joining us via Microsoft Teams in just a few minutes.

59:47 Speaker 10: Really looking forward to talking with her, so stick around.

59:49 Speaker 10: There is plenty more to come.