Matt Connarton Unleashed 1-10-26 hour 2

0:00 Speaker 1: This is Jesse Rutstein and Caleb Dyer.

0:03 Speaker 2: Oh oh now, okay, we we can. Let's do that one more time.

0:06 Speaker 1: This is Jesse Rutstein and Caleb Dyer.

0:10 Speaker 2: Oh crap, hold on, what do you want me to say? Right after that?

0:13 Speaker 1: From Hatchet act from and then I'll say, you're listening right?

0:16 Speaker 2: Sounds good?

0:17 Speaker 3: This is Jesse Rutstein and oh this is why I'm the leader. This is Jesse Rutstein and Caleb Dyer from Hatchet Axon Saw Records. You are listening to the Matt Connerton Show on w m n H ninety five point three Manchester.

0:36 Speaker 4: Actually, what did I say?

0:39 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, all right, let's do this again. Let's do this again.

0:43 Speaker 3: This is Jesse Rutstein and Caleb Dyer from Hatchet Axon Saw Records.

0:48 Speaker 1: You are listening to Matt Connerton Unleashed on ninety five to three w NA. Dude, this is Jesse Rutstein.

0:59 Speaker 2: And Caleb Dyer from Hatchet ax and Saw Records.

1:02 Speaker 3: You are listening to Matt Connorton Unleashed on ninety five point three w m n H.

1:08 Speaker 5: F M.

1:30 Speaker 6: Founded forever like number connessa, I know that wherever you go.

1:38 Speaker 7: That's the distance, and you find the difference so much less than you know. I said the cognitive Sundra sen n r instead.

1:55 Speaker 6: And my love on the break the ships, I still say no thoughts have to say.

2:27 Speaker 7: It is let me read of distance between us, and still I cannot let you go.

2:35 Speaker 8: Lp making notions and sicklical motions.

2:39 Speaker 6: See how the watters got.

2:44 Speaker 9: Leave in my love on the shop fly home to answer a cold.

3:16 Speaker 6: Days of confusion, the black.

3:18 Speaker 8: Dallusion, weirdest int the shot through from b des intention to see revelation about it.

3:29 Speaker 5: It is open to you.

3:59 Speaker 10: Oh that is okay, And I love the guitar work in that the track is Nebuchadnezzar, and that is Paul Nasol. I will ask him though, if I'm pronouncing his name correctly. Paul, are you there?

4:11 Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'm there. I know you're not.

4:13 Speaker 10: No, okay, how do you say your name?

4:15 Speaker 5: It's Nasole?

4:17 Speaker 10: Oh, Nazole? Okay, because you are you're you're gets a lot of different things. Oh, I can imagine. Yeah, because you're of I was reading about you. So you're you're from Liverpool, right, but you're of Italian descent, So that the name is Italian. I assume right, that's right.

4:35 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like a scouse.

4:37 Speaker 10: Gotcha, gotcha. I love that song a lot. And is that you obviously that's your singing? Is that also you on guitar?

4:45 Speaker 5: Yeah, I do some of the guitar. But there's also a guy called Robert Johnson on the guitar there as well. Okay, he's a great player. Actually he's actually Ginger Baker's nephew. Would you believe kidding? Yeah, yeah, cream tu bumbed. It sounds at the clockedon actually doesn't it as well?

5:01 Speaker 3: Yeah?

5:01 Speaker 10: Oh that's oh that's wild. Yeah, oh cool, very very very nice. Yeah, being are you do you currently still live in Liverpool?

5:10 Speaker 5: Yeah at the minute, Yeah, I'm sorts of brunching out a little bit, but uh yeah, looking to uh it's got a little bit further field. But being never Pool most of my life.

5:19 Speaker 10: I'm curious about and I you won't be the first person I've asked this question of, but like, is there is there a certain pressure that comes with being a musician from a place that is so well known for uh you know, you know, in terms of of kind of being it's I feel like Liverpool is almost kind of like this this musical center of the universe within that part of the world. What's that like being there in that music scene.

5:49 Speaker 5: It's great, yeah, you know, it's very incense as well. It can be a little bit of a bubble all of its own, you know, which I imagine a lot of those places are like Nashville and stuff, you know, I mentioned they're all a little bit like that.

5:59 Speaker 10: Yeah.

6:00 Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a lot of great things to be said for it. Man, you know, a lot of a lot of musicians. You know, everyone seems to play guitar. There used to be an old saying back in the nineties. He used to save you from Liverpool. You either play football, you play guitar, or you were you know, you're up to no good, right, right, the young fool, you know. But it's changing a lot. You know, the city has changed a lot over the last twenty years. It's a it used to be quite a poor city. Now it's kind of it's growing a lot.

6:25 Speaker 6: You know.

6:25 Speaker 10: Oh, that's good, expanding, that's good. Did you start playing guitar and singing at a young age?

6:31 Speaker 5: Not really, now. I was also interested in the arts in all different ways, you know, like writing and acting, and poetry, and I got into guitar probably about seventeen something like that. I played a bit of keyboards, a lover the bass, but it was really a little bit later on. But it's sours of took over, you know.

6:47 Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's unusual. But I assume you know, once you started playing, you probably picked it up quickly.

6:54 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's it. I was kind of possessed by it, you know, and yeah, very obsessed.

7:00 Speaker 10: You had played. Did you start out on keyboard?

7:04 Speaker 5: Yeah, a little bit of keyboards, I think I and you know, I say play keyboard, I think I could play Van Halen Jump, Yeah, Moonlight sonata, yeah, and like, you know, one or two other bits.

7:15 Speaker 10: And now the reason I was the reason I was curious is I've heard so many music professors and instructors say over the years that no matter what you intend to play for an instrument, you should learn some just some basic keyboard first, because yeah, and I didn't do that. I didn't do that. I wish I had, But I've just heard so many people say that because it, you know, it teaches you how to in your mind sort of put chords together, and and what you learn from the keyboard will help you with any other instrument that you play.

7:45 Speaker 5: I can imagine that. It's also like visually you can kind of see what's happening in regards you know, the space between the notes and things like that, you.

7:55 Speaker 10: Know exactly exactly.

7:58 Speaker 5: So you know, I'm writing on I'm sort of writing but on piano at the minute. And it's also very different, you know. You know, Guitar can sort of be a very mechanical sort you know, like you kind of hunched around this thing. It's comfortable to play, of course, but you know you are kind of like, you know, hunt around it, and it's a little bit more physical, where piano you kind of can sit down and it's all there in frontier. You know. It's like when I've I've sometimes have some problems with me jointing my fingers and so piano I can still play just fine, you know, but guitar can be a little bit more taxing, sure, just because I played far too much guitar, you know.

8:33 Speaker 10: Now, So tell us about the single nebkid Nezzar, and I imagine it's probably doing pretty well over there, right. It's such a great track.

8:42 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think in Liverpool, you know, in Liverpool, a lot of people know the words to it actually and stuff. You know. It's actually it's got a very you know, it's got a flavor that seems very Liverpool to me. And I guess, you know, mostly when I play locally, it's it's acoustic, and the song works really nice acoustically stripped back, you know, it sounds a little bit more Beatles when you when we recorded it, but yeah when we when I play it, you know, locally, and it's more stripped back, it's got more of like a folky sort of feel, you know.

9:13 Speaker 5: And yeah, it did. You know, you can always tell a good song, you know. This seems to resonate with people. You can see it very quickly, you know, especially with the musicians, so to see their eyes light up, you know. And it's funny actually because it was one of those songs that I wrote very quickly. It all just came out in one go. And you know, I used to be able to do a lot more when I was younger. Right now is a little bit more ponderous, you know, but but yeah, there's something to be said for it.

9:37 Speaker 5: I think those songs that come out very quickly, you sort of channel them, you know.

9:42 Speaker 10: Well, also too. If if people are learning the words, you know, if you're playing it at shows and people know the words, then you know, it's really resonating, you.

9:48 Speaker 5: Know, definitely. Yeah, yeah, that's one hundred percent, because you know, you get you get songs which are like very pleasant to listen to, you know, but but when it's got that catchy thing, there's there's something to be said. And that's kind of you know, that's a you I kind of have on on art as well, like in poetry and and stuff. I think I read it. It was a guy in like the twenties or something was like critiquing the modernist poets, you know, T s Elliotts and people like that, and he was saying that, you know, the flowery language and the mastery of language that these guys had was amazing, and he didn't want to critique that, but he said, there's something beautiful about sort of the folk poetry of rhyme, which is that like children could recite this stuff around the fire, you know, and yeah, and it stuck in the mind and it furnished their minds with beautiful words, you know, and and there was something really nice about that.

10:34 Speaker 5: And I think songs can have that there's room for everything, but there's something to be said that type of stuff, you know, And that's I always try and put a bit of focus on on rhyme. And I always think if you can say what you're trying to say and make it rhyme, then maybe you're onto something, you know.

10:49 Speaker 10: Right, right? Absolutely? So, can you tell us more about the single Nebuchadnezzar. Where where does it come from? And what are the themes are exploring in the song?

11:00 Speaker 5: Yeah, so it's sort of about, like, you know, first of all, I guess it's like it felt like to me like it was coming to grips with a lot of stuff, a lot of like troubles and confusion. That was like a central theme to it, you know. And never connessed himself, the old King of Babylon. Here he was tormented by dreams, you know, and he's this sort of conflicting figure who God punishes but also seems to love because he lets him be redeemed, you know. And that was what sort of I like the idea, and it's just a great way, doesn't it from that way?

11:32 Speaker 5: Straight away? You know? And yeah, so it was like sort of going through it in my own life. It was a very confusing time. I was I had a kid on the way. I was also going through a new relationship with a musician which was total chaos, and so yeah, it was like, I guess, the confusing time in my life, and it all came came about from that. And also it was when I was quite like getting back into music. Really it was when I was saying, see that I got back to it and I used to run a music venue for a long time, really taken me away from performing.

12:05 Speaker 5: Yeah, it was a great famous old place. Actually it was a recording studio that it turned into a bar so where cold Play recorded two albums actually, amongst others. Yeah, it was great pastory studios. It was called it Got It Got Bulldoze. Unfortunately, I would have been quite happy to to try and buy the venue and life different paths, but instead, when it closed, I thought, well, maybe I'll try music again instead. And so for me, NEBC also represents like the start of an adventure, you know, And I think that it kind of sounds like that a little bit.

12:35 Speaker 5: You know. I like the trumpet, and we added some trumpet in a Yes, the trump always makes you think it's like a herald. You know, it's like it does.

12:42 Speaker 10: Yeah, you're right.

12:44 Speaker 5: The king is coming to town and the trumpet plays the leagle.

12:47 Speaker 6: You know that's right.

12:47 Speaker 10: Yeah, that's true. I hadn't even thought of that, but you're right. H yeah. The production, the product, the production is fantastic. Uh now who did you who did you work with on that? As far as uh production? And is it the same? Is it the same for the entire album? Yeah?

13:05 Speaker 5: Mostly it's It was a mixed bire gat and recorded by a guy called Russell Cottier Soundhouse Recording Studio, which is an amazing old recording studio, a little hidden gem actually in Liverpool, not many people seem to know about. And it was in my hometown, which was just was really what drew me to. I thought like there was nice, something nice about that being close to home, and yeah, Russells done a great job. But actually there was some of the parts we recorded at another studio as well, like a home studio, and I think that was the thiddle parts and some of the harmony parts were recorded externally from a previous attempt at recording the single.

13:46 Speaker 5: But like you know, that's the thing. It was like budgets and stuff defeated. That was a bit of mimister done what I could do. So when we got the chance to, I got picked up with a manager, Fuel the Fire, and they produced the album for oh wow. So having a bit of a budget and stuff together and a bigger a bigger crew of musicians to draw from and stuff, right, we had another go out and put it together and I'm pretty happy with that. I'd like to record an acoustic version of it with a flute or something, but oh yeah, it means to have happened yet.

14:22 Speaker 10: And now this is Is this your first this album? Is this your first release as a solo artist?

14:28 Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, there was a couple of like basic singles put out in from home studios, but this is the first proper release really. Yeah.

14:35 Speaker 10: Okay, Now, now were you playing in bands before? I know you mentioned you kind of took a break too from playing because you're running running a venue, But prior to that, were you playing in bands or maybe during that?

14:45 Speaker 6: Yeah?

14:46 Speaker 5: Yeah, for a long time, from like say seventeen to twenty five, I was always mostly as a league guitarist, never as a singer. Oh really, I've done a lot of rights, Yeah, I've done a lot of writing for chords and things like that. But I've got a couple of other project coming out. Actually, so did a lot of collaborations and league guitar and bands with tons of people in Liverpool. But yeah, never really put it forward as you know, as an artist in my own right. So this was the first time to really try and do that, you know, because in Liverpool had sort of been that kind of character.

15:17 Speaker 5: I was kind of someone who like brought things together, you know, sort of hosting up on mics and putting on events and sure, and so a lot of my stuff that I'd done was really all about collaboration and community, and so it was nice to finally do something that was kind of like, well, this is more about me being an artist now, you know.

15:35 Speaker 10: Was that always kind of the goal even when you were playing in bands consistently. Was it always kind of in the back of your mind that you would eventually do a solo album.

15:44 Speaker 5: No, never, really, I don't think I really had the belief or the confidence, you know. And then I think as I was getting older in the venue didn't wearhouse, I thought, you know, you better do something, you know, right, And also, you know, it was also that kind of thing of you know, like, ultimately, you've got to take your destiny in your own hands, haven't you. So I'd played with a lot of bands that I thought was great, but for one reason or another that they wouldn't work out, and you know, you would dependent on four or five other people being on the same page.

16:14 Speaker 5: So just by necessity, it was like, what if I want to have a real go with this, I'm gonna have to do it for myself. You know.

16:19 Speaker 10: Yeah, that's the hardest thing I think about being in a band is you know, I've I've been in a lot of bands, and it's it's hard when you because you've got people with varying degrees of commitment and and yeah, you know, and in terms of what their vision is for for what you're doing, and and it's, uh, that can be really challenging. Plus you got to deal with everyone's schedules and whatnot. So there's so many things, you know, Yeah, there's so many musicians we've.

16:43 Speaker 5: Had, you know, people people have kids, and you know, everything and it can change things, you.

16:48 Speaker 10: Know exactly, and also people.

16:50 Speaker 5: People see it. You know, for me, it's very important, you know, it's the kind of stuff I just think about all the time, you know, not just just music, but also like writing little poems and things. You know, it's just sort of how I live, you know. And it also sorts of occurred to me in the end that it's unrealistic to expect anyone else to have that same right, right, but maybe you know.

17:11 Speaker 10: Now you did mention, so you're gonna be doing going forward. You are going to be doing some more collaborating though, So I like, what what's kind of the is the solo Is the solo stuff that you're doing, is that kind of the main priority and the other things are ancillary or or I think.

17:25 Speaker 5: I'll do them. I'll do them as a you know, under my own name, as a collaboration maybe with with some of the artists I'm looking I'm actually planning at the minute to go to a sort of farm on the Southwest and do something kind of routine, you know, with a maybe live take a little bit of it. Because there's two dimensions to me. I supposed to grew up as a bit of a rock but as I've got old and I've sorted to become a bit poky. Yeah, I guess be hard to talk with the two. But I feel like with the album, I was able to get a lot of the rock stuff helped me system.

17:57 Speaker 5: And now I'd like to do something maybe a little bit more routine and sure, you know, and also, you know, like a lot of the stuff on the album it's a little bit I don't know, like the subject matters and stuff, and often a little bit self indulgent. You know, it's offing about nothing about me. I'd like to do something maybe a little bit more about the world. You know, notice, but if it's a crazy time in the world.

18:17 Speaker 10: You know, I've noticed, especially where you are. Man, you know, you're you're not getting dude, You're not kidding.

18:27 Speaker 5: And also you know, like also like the rise of AI and stuff like that, and you know, I don't even want to I don't even want to put you know, value ridgings and everything. I just kind of want to maybe step back and just observe and just sort of write what I'm seeing, you know, not you know, not try and get pretty earth and but you know, just sort of say what I see.

18:46 Speaker 10: You know, is that something that you're concerned about AI in terms of because that's something we talk about a lot on the show.

18:52 Speaker 5: I'm glad you brought it up, and I've had some radical thoughts on it lately. That's pissed a few people off, you know, but I kind of think, you know, you know, the two ways I could criticize it is like the technological sides, you know, and what that means for the industry and that. But really, you know, you know, I know a lot of successful bands now we're playing to backend tracks, and and you know, a lot of people using plugins instead of real instruments, and and a lot of people you know, like like there's drum machines out there, there's I mean, the way the line is, I'm not sure anymore.

19:21 Speaker 5: So that was one side of thoughts about the technologically. I was like, maybe actually this is just something that's always happened. And then the other side of it was kind of about authenticity. But I really I thought, you know, like looking at the state of the you know, like I always say, Sabrina Carpenter might as well be AI, you know, it's like, I don't know what. And also even the politicians are all fake, you know, and and everything seems kind of a little bit in authentic in the world, and so that doesn't really scare me.

19:48 Speaker 5: I feel like artists have got something to say are still going to stand out, you know, So I don't know, maybe their eye isn't really something to be feared. I personally don't feel all two threatened by it. You know. Also, the industry has been in the industry has been in a bit of a bad way for a long time, hasn't it, in regards to making any money and stuff in the way Spotify, you know. I see that with Spotify a lot. You know, Like when I was trying to promote the album, I'd sort of fall prey to these things on social media, and you'd see these guys and they'd be talking about, you know, how to promote your music.

20:19 Speaker 5: And people were getting very good at like gaming the system almost, you know, so they could get on these playlists and and and these guys had like millions of plays. But when I listened to the music, I was like, it's so mediocre. I know, that's just my taste, but from my point of view, I was like, you know, this music must have millions of plays, but what does that even mean. I don't think anyone's going to care about this in ten years time, So what are we even doing here? Anymore. And so really with the I I think I'm thinking, what does it really change?

20:46 Speaker 5: Like what, there's a load of fake music, Well, there's all idea, a load of fake music made by humans, you know, right, maybe this is going to shake the tree a little bit, you know, and maybe maybe it's going to be okay, but really, you know it's not. It's you know, I think there's more to fit if from AI for then how it's going to affect music, you.

21:02 Speaker 10: Know, right? Oh yeah, a true good points like.

21:06 Speaker 5: What do you think you like it? Or do you hate it?

21:08 Speaker 10: Well, I'll tell you I I I like what you said about how you know, AI is already in some degrees, it's already been there, especially with you know, you have bands who use backing tracks and plugins and all that. So it's not as though it's not as though technology has not been helping artists to kind of I don't want to say cheat because I don't make any value judgment about it.

21:30 Speaker 5: But yeah, yeah, but but.

21:32 Speaker 10: But but to kind of enhance the live experience, shall we say? But that's but but of course a lot of that's been forever, like you know, bands using backing tracks for backing vocals, for example, during live shows. I mean, that's that's been happening for decades, so so there's nothing new to a lot of it. But it is staggering to me. Something that I find kind of fun, even though I feel a little bit guilty about it, is like going on YouTube and finding these AI generated versions of songs, you know, new versions like uh, you know, like like there's this one uh channel on YouTube where they make AI generated versions of of hard rock and metal versions of songs from like the Backstreet Boys, the New Kids on the Block, and and the thing is, I listen to these and they're really good, Like they're actually really well done and fun to listen to.

22:28 Speaker 10: And it's like, you know, but knowing that somebody made that. Now, granted some of these probably they're made with prompts, but then they're they're tweaked in certain ways. I don't think they're I don't think it's they're that simple, but but it is, you know, it is, Uh, it's scary because because then it gets you to the question, if you if you think about it this far, is there a use for for actual musicians at a certain point if you can just if you just make AI create whatever you want whatever it is that you, as an individual listener want to hear.

23:05 Speaker 10: If that's within reach, why do you even need other people to make music for you to listen to.

23:11 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think there's definitely you know, that's where there's some of these I think they're the points of real tension that we should we can talk about, you know. But also that in itself is nothing new, you know, Like there was tons of industries that would dramatically change by technological progress, you know, and often no one really cared. How often people really valued the convenience over anything else, you know, Like my granddad worked on Liverpool Docks, and prior to Liverpool's decline in like the seventies eighties, the Liverpool Docks employed thousands upon thousands of people.

23:46 Speaker 5: And not only was there there was political things that happened in the Thatchy years that really really cementtered the decline, but besides that, you know, machinery was changed into a way that a job that maybe needed twenty guys to do could now be done with one guy with a machine, right, and there was an inevitability to it, you know, and even really some of the processes of globalization, you know, like England has no manufacturing anymore, and that was because it was cheaper to do it somewhere else, you know, And I guess that's happened everywhere.

24:15 Speaker 5: And you know that's also these processes that have happened. Like part of me kind of sees all of this is like, well, look, you know, we all went along with all of this, you know, for generations, we've all gone along with all of this. This is this is the bed we've made. We're going to harp and lie in it, you know, and adapt to it a little bit. Maybe you know, it's not going away, is the truth. You know, it's not going away. And they're positives, you know. I've seen recently. I can't what it was colled, but something popped up on social media and this guy had Tuesday Eyes to make a graphic novel.

24:44 Speaker 5: And the guy's ideas were great, and I was thinking, you know, like this is my thing. You know, Like the music industry is also like very nepotistic these days, you know, it's very Sometimes it seems hemetically sealed, you know, it seems like it's an insiders club, you know, And and the art can be like that in lots of ways, and also social class becomes a big barrier. You know, all the all the successful musicians, I know, almost always they come from a wealthy background, you know. And so there's a thing like that which is like, you know, this guy making his graphic novel, he would not have had the money or the backing to ever make this thing, but in terms of the ideas and the scenes and stuff he's playing with, it's very interesting, you know to me, And I thought, well, you know what this tool has enabled this person who has something exceptional in the idea, and this thing would never have been made.

25:36 Speaker 5: And you know, like so often you see what the industry, whether it's Hollywood or anything else, is chaining out. You know, there's for me, there's a there's been a bit of a decline in quality in the mainstream, you know, and partly I think that's because of this these these problems. You know. It's like, you know, in England, we used to produce great bands from working class communities, like Oasis. You know, I might have been fan of Oasis, but I like it, you know, and I like what they've done. But you know, I don't know if a band like Oasis could could exist in this climates anymore.

26:03 Speaker 10: You know, yeah, interesting.

26:05 Speaker 5: I'm not saying AI the answer to that, but I'm just saying, look, there's a lot of problems that we're not solving here, and actually there's some benefits to AI. There's an element of it which is very democratizing. You know, used to learn about that, you know, the idea that like home studios. Making home studios made music a lot more accessible to lots and lots of people, which everyone champion does a great thing. It was very bad for professional according studios, you know, like, what do we want to do here?

26:32 Speaker 5: You know, it's the same for musicians and in a lot of ways from the artist's point of view. You know, so often if an artist wants his vision requires a violin, he has to pay a violin. It's not and yeah, that's great for this sort of ecosystem with musicians and stuff. But if he's not able to do that, he can't make the art. And maybe the art important, you know, maybe the art is more important than someone getting paid. You know, I don't know, I don't know. I'm not saying it is. I'm making that, you know, not going to be weathered to that idea yet, I'm just saying I feel like there's a bigger conversation here than than what you often seeing from from local musicians.

27:06 Speaker 10: Yeah, because ultimately, you know, one thing that you can't do is you can't hold back technology.

27:11 Speaker 5: So it's a lose. It's a losing. It's like the old Western. I always think it's like the old Western films, you know, and you get this old cowboy and it's super romantic and the railroads coming through the town, you know, and he's like holding onto the old ways, and we love it. It's romantic. It's like we want him to you know. Ultimately it's the cowboys are over, you know, right right, or like you know, like medieval nights. I used to think that was the most romantic thing in the world. Was like a guy having a sord fight, you know, and then someone invites invents a gun and it's like, well, you know, a different game now.

27:44 Speaker 10: Yeah, but yeah you can't. Yeah, you can't hold it back, and it's uh so all you can do. And you know, the music industry I think already learned this lesson once. Maybe not well enough, you know, because I remember when you know, I'm old enough to remember when when Napster for a stap and and you know, and everybody in the music industry was freaking out, Oh you can just fileshare, you can all this music is free now, you know what, what what are we going to do? You know, because at the time I was working for I was a manager for a retail chain here and here in the States called Strawberries, which later became absorbed into another larger music retail chain.

28:19 Speaker 10: But that was but that there was panic. I mean, there was absolute panic in the industry and the company that I worked for, it was like, well, why are people going to come in and buy CDs now? You know?

28:31 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

28:32 Speaker 10: You know. So, but but you can't you can't stop it. You can't hold it back. All you can do is adapt and try to figure it out. And I think, I think, but I think we're at another inflection point with that. You know, we can't hold it back, so we got to just figure it out, you know.

28:49 Speaker 5: And yeah, you gotta decide what it means, you know. Yeah, I guess, like, you know, I kind of I respect I'm not going to take pass and I see a lot of people who are sort of trying to draw a line in the sun and say, i'm're gonna we're going to keep this. You know, we're gonna, you know, people who mess around with AI, We're gonna kind of gate keeping them. We're going to say, you know, no, that's not cool. You know, we're gonna we're gonna ostracize it in some way or you know, close ranks and I'm like, yeah, cool, you know, like make you stand.

29:14 Speaker 5: But you might just be that old cowboy you know, right, you're gonna get railroaded, you know. And really, like, like I said, I really think, like I really think if you if you can try and get back to the art form more because you know, so much music now is just commodity. You know, so much pop music, you know, the Sabrina Carpenter stuff is just commodity. Like there's not I mean, it's interesting in a way. Popular culture is always interested in as a way of understanding society, you know, and where it's at.

29:42 Speaker 5: But as far as I can see it where it's at, it's not a great place already. And a lot of the art is just commodity. And it's really difficult because you know, at least in like the sixties and stuff, you know, some of the popular stuff that was breaking through was was really artistically viable, you know, like Dylan, Bob Dylan. I mean he's writing lyrics in those early years that are up there with like T. S Elliott and all these poets. You know. It's like, yeah, you know, and that's what I think is like a I will be able to replace Sabrina Carpenter, but I'm not sure it could replace Bob Dunnan.

30:14 Speaker 10: Yeah, that's a good point for.

30:16 Speaker 5: The next Bob doing, the next Bob done. You know, whatever the future version of of a great artist is. I'm not sure it'll be able to do that. I think it'll always be playing catch up too, you know, those sorts of humans, you know.

30:28 Speaker 10: Yeah, because without everything that came before it, it has nothing to draw from, so it needs exactly Yeah.

30:33 Speaker 5: So maybe it'll drive innovation and it'll yeah. And also you know, I find it, you know, even locally, Like you know, I'm not trying to to break into some pop thing or to be a mainstream thing at all. You know, I don't really think it's viable for me, but I certainly have found there's still a lot of people who are who are looking for something, you know, the that maybe is trying to be a bit more artsy or something, you know, and there's still a place for it, you know, Yeah, And you know it's maybe it'll carry on like that.

31:10 Speaker 5: You know, maybe it'll be something that forced people to really think about what does matter in a work of art. And if you really don't like the idea that a computer is making it, well, what do you like about the fact that it's a human making it? And you know, maybe we have to start actually making some distinctions. You know, I think that's gonna happen. But you know, it's an interesting thing to think about.

31:29 Speaker 10: It is it is, It's it's a very interesting time to be alive. That's that's for sure. Well, Paul, this has been wonderful. I love the album. I do want so I'm gonna can absolutely so I'm going to kind of put you on the spot here because in a moment after we let you go, I'm going to play another track from the album to close out the segment. But obviously we did play the single Nebu Goodnezzar to open, But what song would you like us to play at the end of our conversation?

31:58 Speaker 5: And this there's two you know, I have some conflicted feelings on the album. There's a lot of things that didn't quite It's a difficult time, you like, to be totally honest with you, a lot of health problems while I was trying to make it and stuff. Yeah, and just a lot of complex things, you know. But but you know, there's a few bits that came out. I think there's one song called why Go Home, and there's this song there called linger On, And I think those ones are interesting to me. Maybe not the the catches or anything, but I think they they're the ones that came out that I really like, you.

32:33 Speaker 10: Know, you know what.

32:35 Speaker 5: The album just has too many styles on it, you know. I to be honest, Yeah, my health was getting so bad I started this is so dramatically, so typical of an artist. I'm a lot better know, but at the time I thought that, you know, I might make this album and just die, you know. Yeah, well no, because I'm still alive, you know, but yeah, being a dramatic artist, you know. But yeah, you know, like I was, I was just kind of like, well, you know what, I'm just going to record all my favorite songs that I never recorded over the last ten years, and I'm just going to put them all on there, and maybe that should have been three EP's or something.

33:09 Speaker 5: Stylistically it's to be all over the place. But yeah, I Go Homes a nice country track, and linger On is kind of like a weird little pop pop sort of folky thing. I don't know, I'll have time.

33:21 Speaker 10: I'm actually I'll play both of them. I'll play both of them. At the end.

33:25 Speaker 5: I wasn't a going for that. I just couldn't decide.

33:27 Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, that's that's okay. No, I'll play both of them. We'll have time. I would love to, awesome, Paul. Where's the best place for people to go online to keep up with everything that you are doing.

33:39 Speaker 5: So right now? Just YouTube? Man or Spotify? I guess you know. I have a Facebook. I don't really engagements with social media right now. I'm kind of like I had some problems with Instagram and it closed down the accounts, which was quite oh really a lot of followers on there? Yeah, yeah, I had a lot of followers on there. But I also, as you can tell by my thoughts on AI AM so have been a place where I'm sort of trying to figure out what it all means man, And yeah, I'm just trying to figure out what where to go next, and I think I'd like to maybe start building on YouTube, you know, especially when I do this new thing.

34:11 Speaker 5: I was saying, I'm going to go to the Southwest and do a channel Paul McCartney's RAMI hangout on a farm and community on YouTube. Yeah, I think on YouTube and film a lot of stuff. So you could subscribe on YouTube or that'd probably be the one for now, and then at some point they'll be there'll be more socials when I'm here with the next project.

34:32 Speaker 10: Yeah, out outstanding, outstanding, all right, Well, Paul Nasoli, No, that's not right, is it? How do I say it? Nas nas nas Okay, thank you, and I'm sorry for butchering your name. I'm in America.

34:48 Speaker 5: I don't worry. We don't mostly in Liverpool. I understand it used to be.

34:58 Speaker 10: Well, Paul, thank you so much for joining us. This has been wonderful. We will definitely have to do this. Absolutely, we'll have to do this again in the future.

35:04 Speaker 5: And yeah, we're gonna we're.

35:05 Speaker 10: Gonna play both of those tracks from the self titled album, very very very cool. I listened to the whole thing and I love it so great.

35:12 Speaker 5: Great, absolutely, so we'll hit those tracks.

35:16 Speaker 10: We'll let you go for now, Paul, thank you so much, and we'll talk again soon. I'm sure.

35:19 Speaker 5: All right, thanks a lot.

35:21 Speaker 10: You got it YouTube, bye bye, all right, wonderful. So we're gonna play. We're gonna go ahead and play both of these. By the way, if you are listening live, stick around if you are listening on Saturday, because in the third hour gen X is gonna be joining us from the band Generations and really looking forward to talking with her. But yeah, we'll play. Uh, we'll play both of these. Let's do this one first. This is called why go Home?

36:03 Speaker 6: Why go Home? With Mama's sleeve? And no wonder stop your beating?

36:12 Speaker 11: Why go home?

36:14 Speaker 10: Twenty could Steve.

36:22 Speaker 9: Summer's gone, And I'm to reading along to face.

36:30 Speaker 10: These feeling, I.

36:33 Speaker 6: PhD just to send against him. Some crickets stops hid bother. The day that you were born flies we to.

36:47 Speaker 9: Wa went the afew only thought sorrow shut on and restip you try to take your finger to all and.

36:56 Speaker 6: Far back down again. Fine your hard misplease.

37:06 Speaker 11: So I'm bound with the season looking around for faith.

37:14 Speaker 6: Then reason none I found on the.

37:19 Speaker 10: Old bones, said be.

37:25 Speaker 6: Any food? On inside around here and see it for yourself. The room be missing from your crying.

37:32 Speaker 9: The twindling I you him, and all your pearls of wisdom have been passed among the swine.

37:39 Speaker 6: The cracks beneath the mounds move better next time. Why go home when mam must leave and no one there? Who stop? You'll bleed? Why go home when you could stay, oh man.

38:27 Speaker 11: To Why go home when you.

38:31 Speaker 10: Could stay, oh night?

38:37 Speaker 5: Why go home where?

39:04 Speaker 6: Never really had the words to say, never knew what game to play? Baby with you? Ever since you went away,

39:17 Speaker 6: only feel like it was yesterday. Yes, God deeds gone. I linger.

39:24 Speaker 5: For you.

39:30 Speaker 6: Never really mattered anyway. I can take it, baby, came I have for men. You'll know it's true.

39:39 Speaker 11: Take your seventh on a Saturday, Well it might have been on one on Liday in the sunder Ilger.

39:50 Speaker 6: For you, Alida, just sorry.

40:24 Speaker 11: Remember when we never had a kid, so'd you belabe that I'll take you anywhere that you want to go.

40:33 Speaker 6: Eu and me we never had a prince.

40:37 Speaker 7: Talk two weeks, you know, we never had a pair to reach to the sun.

40:42 Speaker 6: Alinga on.

40:45 Speaker 5: For you.

42:16 Speaker 6: I'm standing in the air shuller, I'm listening to the word.

42:25 Speaker 6: I wonder as girl, A wonder, white spell, a may of a mind.

42:37 Speaker 5: Okay, I'm standing in the shastening to Ben.

43:28 Speaker 4: I'll get at the back, staying in the s.

43:37 Speaker 6: S to see me.

44:42 Speaker 5: Ad got miss.

44:46 Speaker 6: What's bad? That's all he got?

44:55 Speaker 8: He got ma.

45:30 Speaker 6: Kill?

45:43 Speaker 10: I love it. That is the Ocean by the band replaced by robots. Hey, welcome, he everybody. This is Matt Connorton Unleashed. We are live from the studios of wm n H ninety five point three FM and Glorious Manchester, New Hampshire. If you aren't listening live on Saturday. Coming up in the third hour, gen X from the band Generations is going to be joining us from Missouri via Microsoft Teams. Really looking forward to talking with her. I love the project. Jenny is here, of course at the news table account for and just saw this some music news.

46:16 Speaker 10: Uh. Ticketmaster faces lawsuit over alleged website tracking and surveillance tools. This is from Music Businessworldwide dot com. I feel like whenever we talk about lawsuits in the music industry, Ticketmaster's name comes up a lot, a lot, a lot. They're constantly getting yes, yes, here's here's the well, here's the newest thing. A new class action lawsuit has been filed against Ticketmaster, a leegendis website deploys unauthorized surveillance tools that violate California privacy laws. The latest complaint, filed in the US District Court for the Central District of California on Monday, January five, only listed Ticketmaster as the defendant.

47:01 Speaker 10: The class action was led by Solano County, California resident named Jeffrey Scruggs. The complaint claims that Ticketmaster employs advertising and analytics trackers from Google, Facebook, TikTok, and Microsoft bing Oh Bing, I remember bing I know, I do too. I didn't even know it still existed, as well as those operated by Pinterest, Snap and Commscore to illegally quote collect, receive and process unquote information. Excuse me how to cough information from users such as IP addresses, paid RL's timestamps, and device on or browser characteristics, among others.

47:49 Speaker 10: By the way, before we go any further with this, I would just say, yeah, I just kind of would have assumed that, like as any of this house shocking to you, No.

48:02 Speaker 4: Shocking el heck no no.

48:04 Speaker 12: But it raises an important issue about privacy. So do you, on the one hand, do you want ads that are targeted to what you like? Maybe you would like that instead of ads that are selling trying to sell your products, you would have nothing to do with, right, Like, but.

48:25 Speaker 5: What to what?

48:27 Speaker 4: To what expense?

48:29 Speaker 12: Do you want it to know when you turn your browser on and off? Do you want it to tell what your favorite color is? Do you want it to tell what musicians you're looking up or whether you looked up something for athletes?

48:41 Speaker 10: Foot?

48:42 Speaker 12: You know how it can get? How much information is okay with you? Because once it's out, it's out right. Once something gets the net, it's on the net. There's no deletion, it's there. Yeah, you know, I remember years ago, years and years and years ago when the super markets came out with this device that you could go around to shop with and it would get to know you and it would tell you if you were in a particular aisle, do you want to get X again?

49:12 Speaker 4: Or why again?

49:13 Speaker 12: And how privacy wonks got really upset about it. They're like, oh, well, they're gonna know what you're eating, they're gonna know what you're tagging him, you know, And then it was like, oh I went shopping and then I got like five cheese coupons in the mail because I bought a lot of cheese. So where did that seveiled information come from? So to them doing this as they're trying to show you the ads like they want to show you the Doobie Brothers or they want to show you, I don't know, kid rock, whoever.

49:41 Speaker 5: It is.

49:43 Speaker 10: To me is so different than you know, when you go on a shopping site like Amazon and you see products selected for you, suggested for you, I should say that by your history that you might like, yes, things that you're actually interested in. That's how all of it works.

49:58 Speaker 4: Okay, Well why does it always try and show me something I've already bought?

50:01 Speaker 10: I don't know, Maybe you want to buy it again? No, maybe you need another one. I don't know.

50:06 Speaker 4: I never understand that one. Why are you showing me something I already bought?

50:10 Speaker 10: Well?

50:10 Speaker 4: Crazy? But yo, So it comes down to privacy, right.

50:15 Speaker 10: Yeah, but the so I have an unpopular opinion about that, and that is this. I'm just speaking for me personally. I couldn't care less, couldn't care less about any of it. I have no privacy to protect because guess what none of us do anymore. I mean, come on, because this toothpaste is so far out of the tube. Who cares? Some people I know don't want what I just said is an unpopular opinion. Well, I think probably most people.

50:46 Speaker 12: Don't put the browsers in the setting that allows them to browse and do things without being cast.

50:53 Speaker 10: I'm glad you said that, because that's an easy solution. Yeah, just put it in an incogni neo mode and go crazy.

50:59 Speaker 4: That's all that. Well, now it's easy for you to say that, but you got to look.

51:04 Speaker 10: That it's easy to do it.

51:06 Speaker 12: You've got to look at it in the legal sense of the word of how much is that not? How much is what is crossing the line? Is there a line on your privacy that you don't want cross that you do want the laws to protect because you don't want companies, you know, gathering that.

51:25 Speaker 4: Do you want the local hospital to.

51:26 Speaker 12: Start sending you bereavement things because it got connected that you had somebody that passed.

51:32 Speaker 10: But it wouldn't offend me. I wouldn't be like, oh, this is insensitive. I can't believe I'm getting this.

51:37 Speaker 4: I be, But somebody else might be like, why does anybody know this?

51:41 Speaker 10: Why not? Like I said, it's my my my way of looking at is it's an unpopular opinion. I just don't care. I've never cared. I don't care.

51:49 Speaker 12: You're an oddity because you're one of those people that is I am who I am as I am you. You don't have to remember his story because it's always truth, right, you know, so and and that. Unfortunately these days kah could be kind of rare. So if you're somebody that's trying to hide behind a cloud, you don't want the surveiled, yeah, or if you I mean, there is a certain perspective to respect that people do have a right to privacy.

52:14 Speaker 4: People do have a right to be safe within their own environment. They have that right. So how far is it okay to let a company go?

52:24 Speaker 10: Do you have a line? So I would argue again, and this will be an unpopular opinion. People will disagree with me. But if you have, if you want to have that expectation of privacy, you have to take some simple steps to do that, like putting your browser incognito mode for example, or using a VPN. But if you like, this is the part that will be unpopular with people. I think at this point in twenty twenty six, you have no more just using your browser as is and and just looking at whatever you're looking at, you have no you should have no more greater expectation of more greater you should have no greater expectation of privacy doing that, then you should in a public place having a conversation.

53:07 Speaker 4: With disagree right to be.

53:11 Speaker 12: If you're in your home doing whatever it is you're doing as long so long as it's not an illegal horrible thing, you have right to And the VPN isn't going to solve this problem because remember in the article they talked about it's collecting the IP address paige Ur. Else having a VPN doesn't matter. That VPN only hides.

53:30 Speaker 4: Where you are.

53:31 Speaker 10: If you put it in an incognito could go.

53:34 Speaker 12: For incognito, but do you know whether or not this technology to get around that? Can they still look at it? And if there's no law prohibiting it, then it is legal State of New Hampshire. If it is not a law specifically saying it's illegal, then it is legal in the State of New Hampshire.

53:51 Speaker 4: That's how our laws are.

53:52 Speaker 12: So if there's no law that says I don't have the right to invade your privacy And look at what did you buy off a ticket Master? When did you buy it? What venues are you going to? And can that information then be gotten out there? Can that information then be sold? Can somebody use it to surveil the.

54:09 Speaker 10: Other thing too? People always complained, abu oh, I don't want my information being sold. What that that's been going? That was going on pre internet, like like if you've ever gotten a piece of junk mail that.

54:20 Speaker 12: People fried, but that doesn't make it right, That doesn't make it right. Well, no, that's not how it now. Listen to you, it doesn't have to be that's how it works. If that's how it works, and Ticketmaster can say that's how.

54:36 Speaker 4: It works, we've got the monopoly.

54:37 Speaker 10: That's why you guys should.

54:38 Speaker 12: Just you know, sell your tickets through us and suck it up that you're getting, you know, two cents on the penny or whatever it is.

54:46 Speaker 4: You know, there's I don't I don't like that.

54:49 Speaker 10: That's just like it is like even pre internet, Like you subscribe to a magazine and you start getting offers in your mailbox for other magazines that might be interesting you. Why does that happen because the company that you bought that magazine subscription from took your information and sold it to somebody.

55:07 Speaker 12: Ever, ninety percent of companies out there have the ability that you can say no, do not share. You have the ability to say no, do not share on a lot of these websites, a lot of these companies.

55:20 Speaker 4: You have that right to say no.

55:23 Speaker 12: So they can sell everybody else, but you sure if they do sell you, then they're violations. They're violating your privacy and they're not respecting the choice you made to say no, I don't want you to share my hell if you I don't want you to know that I'm buying hemorrhoid cream or I'm buying athletes foot stuff like maybe people don't so what the other side of that coin, The unintended consequence can be as bad as somebody doesn't go get treatment for something because they're too afraid of the surveillance of somebody finding out that what that is that they have a treatment for.

55:58 Speaker 12: You gotta think worse case, best case, chio sure, and if the unintended consequences can be harmful and hurt somebody, then there is a call to say we have a right to privacy. Yeah, I don't think that just because the Internet was created that means that you lose your right to privacy.

56:18 Speaker 10: No, I just think it's no. I agree with that. Uh in principle. I just think it's uh. I think the expectator people need to adjust their expectations.

56:28 Speaker 4: But I want to know what your line is.

56:29 Speaker 12: If they're saying they're they're collecting what was that word they use, Oh, browser characteristics?

56:35 Speaker 4: What in the heck does that actually mean?

56:37 Speaker 10: I don't even know.

56:38 Speaker 4: I just I just know I personally mean accessing the camera.

56:42 Speaker 10: Oh, that would be bad. Yeah. I don't want that happening. I want prohibiting it. And no, there is Oh, that's definitely against.

56:49 Speaker 5: A lot.

56:51 Speaker 4: A privacy.

56:52 Speaker 12: If what if you're using a website that utilizes your camera, If there isn't a lot of it says that website can't and take whatever you utilize that camera with and sell it to somebody, Then they get to sell it to somebody.

57:04 Speaker 4: What if I'm using an online thing to size out.

57:07 Speaker 12: My eyeglasses, to buy my eyeglasses, to put in my prescription, that's my private information. Whether you think it's important or not important information, that's my private that.

57:17 Speaker 10: Would be protected by hippo, wouldn't it anywhere?

57:20 Speaker 5: No?

57:21 Speaker 6: Not? Maybe, maybe not.

57:23 Speaker 10: I don't know, I would think it. I don't know because because the ceiling with an eyeglass prescription can maybe the aspect of it, That's what I'm thinking.

57:29 Speaker 4: Can they get away with sharing any of the other stuff? I don't know.

57:32 Speaker 10: Probably. I don't like who you bought the glasses from? And yeah probably yeah.

57:37 Speaker 4: You know, so if ticket masters some kind of what are they doing on the back end?

57:43 Speaker 10: Is my thing?

57:43 Speaker 12: Like okay, time stamps. They know when you're up, they know when you're buying your tickets. Yeah, they know what to send out, you know what I mean? They know it target cool?

57:54 Speaker 10: Cool, Really, show me, show me what you want to sell me.

57:57 Speaker 4: You want to maybe we're getting closer and closer to big Brother, then well we're already there.

58:04 Speaker 10: We've been there for a long time.

58:05 Speaker 12: But in the aspect of a private business, do they have the right to investigate you, to surveil you in such a way.

58:18 Speaker 10: You think I'm interesting enough, you want to investigate and surveil me, go ahead, Well.

58:22 Speaker 12: That's my that's my ass that's my personal opinion as well. But that can be my personal opinion. That doesn't mean it has to be forced to be everybody. No, I know I have the air on the side of safety first. So the right to privacy should supersede the right for the company to be able to sell the information or to collect this data.

58:42 Speaker 4: How far deep browser characteristics means? I don't know.

58:47 Speaker 12: And could they Well here, let me throw this at you. Could they utilize any of this information against the artists? Could they collect data using these surveiled technologies that helps them buy new ways to nicol and I'm the artist, so they get even less? We have how many times we talked about how many how much money the artists don't get?

59:07 Speaker 10: Right?

59:08 Speaker 4: Yeah, could that be utilized to do it even further?

59:11 Speaker 10: Well, if you want to look at it. So the article is up at Music Business Worldwide dot com. There's a there's a bit more to it. But but like I said, Ticketmaster, they're always in trouble for something.

59:21 Speaker 12: And they're always trying to get more for less. That's right, So protect the artists, watch out for each other.

59:27 Speaker 10: All right, If you are listening live on Saturday, we're gonna take a break. We're going to show some love to our amazing sponsors, and then coming out of the break, we're gonna play the Uh, one of the new singles from the band Generation's Seance, and we have another track too that just came out that we'll play at the end of our conversation with gen X. She's gonna be joining us via Microsoft Teams in just a few minutes. Really looking forward to talking with her, so stick around. There is plenty more to come.