Matt Connarton Unleashed: Boeden Greenley, author of Perseverance

0:00 Speaker 1: Bowden. Can you hear me? Yes, sir, very good Bowden Greenley? Am I saying that correctly? Boden?

0:05 Speaker 2: Yes, that's right.

0:06 Speaker 1: Okay, that's not a name I think I've ever seen before, but I like it. It's cool. Yeah, So Boden Greenley is skyping in. Now where are you, Bowden? Where are you located?

0:15 Speaker 2: I'm in North Dakota, North Dakota.

0:19 Speaker 1: Oh, okay, Fargo. Well we all we all know about Fargo because of the movie. But uh so you have written a book which I read, and thank you for sending that to us. Uh person, perseverance and very you know, I referenced earlier when I when I mentioned that you were going to be joining us. Uh, I mentioned that, you know, pretty pretty heavy stuff. It's a heavy subject. It's it's a light read in the sense that it's not particularly long. But but but it's not a light read in the sense that, like I said, it's it's it's pretty heavy stuff.

0:55 Speaker 1: And let me let me ask you this right up front, and we can kind of work backwards a little bit. But I want to know this and then we'll get into for our listeners what it's about and everything. But how is your mother now, because the book is of course about the ordeal health wise that your mother has been through. As we sit here today, how is she doing?

1:14 Speaker 2: Yeah, so's she's definitely better than she was at her worst by a lot. But she's certainly not one hundred percent. I'd say, somewhere in the forty percent realm.

1:23 Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, which I think. I think in the book that's kind of where you left it was about she was at about forty percent.

1:31 Speaker 2: So yes, So.

1:33 Speaker 1: Boden, if if we could, can you go ahead and tell us about the book and what it's about, and you know, I'm sure I'll have some questions. I read it the other night, and I'll have some questions along the way. But for our listeners to kind of get get acquainted, i'd like you to kind of tell us a little bit about the book and what it is that drove you to write this.

1:54 Speaker 2: Yeah. So this was something that I'd wanted to write for a long time. It was a situation that directly involved me, and once I got a little older here, I was like, I feel like this is something that is more common than the industry makes it seem like. It is like this is something to me. I feel everybody kind of sweeps under the rug, and I really wanted to get this story out there and make people knowledgeable on this topic. So basically going back, so right now, I'm nineteen years old. This started when I was about twelve years old.

2:29 Speaker 2: So going back, she had a tooth issue going on, and she was needed an implant and was debating on getting a ceramic or a titanium implant, and she doctors pushed her to go titanium. She decided to go titanium, got that put in there, and then probably like three months after getting it, she started getting all these terrible things going on in her body, started getting really bad. She ended up getting it out like probably seven months after that, and then just from there on just kept it was really bad that next year and then got a little bit better, but then it's still been struggling with problems for a long long time.

3:18 Speaker 1: And and as this is going on, did she or did anyone have any idea that it was the tooth?

3:25 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it was. It was pretty much clear as day that it was the tooth. She was she was as healthy as you could possibly be. Prior to this. She was a person that was like lifting every day, ran a lot all these things, and no just common anything was taken her down at all. Like she was. She was literally as healthy as it could be and then got this tooth and right after boom we got we had problems galore.

3:55 Speaker 1: And this is Have you been able to find other documented cases similar to this or or is this such a rare thing that that that you really can't find anything like this happening to anybody.

4:09 Speaker 2: Yeah? I actually, you know, I haven't looked into specific cas as a ton, but even so, I'm from a pretty small town and I even know a couple people close to me that had similar symptoms to my mom when getting titanium put in their body, So I know that this happens.

4:27 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, it's frustrating.

4:32 Speaker 2: You know.

4:33 Speaker 1: Jenny, of course, with her her experience and what she's been through, she knows a lot about when it's difficult to get something diagnosed and you know, figuring out exactly what the problem is. You know, she has a lot of experience with that, and I'm sure there's a lot of people who can relate to that. You know, when you're dealing with something that's unusual, it's it's so much harder to get it diagnosed, because you know, if it's not something common, you know, really, I mean, why would the medical community know a lot about it or be able to figure out and identify the problem and then go from there and figure out solutions if it's something that doesn't happen very often.

5:12 Speaker 2: H exactly.

5:14 Speaker 1: So, So the titanium, it's sort of poisoned her, right, It caused her, It wrecked her health in a sense. Right.

5:23 Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is one thing I want to really kind of make clear here. So in my opinion, I don't believe that the titanium is a huge issue when dealing with this. The problem is titanium implants are six percent aluminum, and that's where the problem became. So they use aluminum as a filler metal. It's because aluminum per ounce is way cheaper than titanium per ounce, so they can use that. And keep in mind they're outputting two point five million implants per year, so when you're talking that scale, that money that it takes to create the implant, that really matters.

6:05 Speaker 2: So the aluminum was the issue.

6:08 Speaker 3: And if I were, oh, go ahead, Jenny, would no, I'm just I'm shocked. Yeah, And I never knew. I never knew that there was aluminum in the titanium implants.

6:19 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it never knew that. It's interesting that you say that because I think in the book, I think you kind of talk about that too, Votin that they don't tell you that up front, right, Like don't they kind of sell it to you as it's titanium and they just say that's what it is, And they don't tell you while it's titanium, but it's also aluminum and it's this and it's that.

6:38 Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. And it's like maybe somewhere in the fine print of the contract that's what they say it in there. Yeah, but they definitely don't make it clear when they're telling you, that's for sure. And the thing too is, I don't know if you guys know, lately there's been a big uprising with aluminum in the deodorance.

6:59 Speaker 4: That I'm very if I'm a breast cancer survivor.

7:02 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. So it's like, to me, how can so now everybody's opening up to aluminum and deodorance, which is simply just putting it on topically on your skin, but then it's okay to implant it into your body. It's like, that makes no sense.

7:19 Speaker 3: Right, that's a super valid point. Yeah, one hundred Yeah, aluminum and deodorant. That's one of the things. One of the first things they told me to stop using was antiperspirant because that's the main ingredient there is the aluminum. Yep, deordorant by itself doesn't have it right.

7:36 Speaker 2: Right. And let me take a guess. So you said you're a breast cancer survivor.

7:40 Speaker 4: Yep.

7:41 Speaker 2: Was your breast cancer like really close to your armpit?

7:46 Speaker 3: No, actually, it was closer to my back. It was in the back of my breast tissue. And there was also a pre cancerous area that had started under the areola.

8:00 Speaker 4: Okay, I kind of had it on both.

8:02 Speaker 3: Sides of this area as far as thickness goes. It was way up front and way in the back.

8:06 Speaker 1: Does make it does make you wonder though, a little bit, right, of course, of course.

8:11 Speaker 3: I mean I can remember when I was a kid, my dad going, it's time for you to get the odorant. Now, you know it like it was like a thing you had to start using deodorant. I mean, yeah, and always used yodorant. That's like it's ingrained into your head, right, how many of us bring it to school and reapply?

8:29 Speaker 2: I mean, right, yeah, yeah, I was reading a study the other day. I don't remember exactly what it was, but there's a big increase in breast cancer towards the or really close to the armpit because of the they're saying it's directly linked to the aluminum in the well.

8:49 Speaker 3: That's that's where the main lymph nodes start, and that's where the first two lymph nodes are that are normally and in my case, we're dissected and removed, and some people lose way more than that because they keep going. They start with those lymph nodes right in the armpit. You're one hundred percent correct, and then it goes backwards from there.

9:10 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's interesting.

9:12 Speaker 3: You've certainly done your resource, that's for sure. And this is good information to be sharing. Most people don't consider what's in their anti presperot right that they're using, and that aluminum actually like blocks you and then gets into your body.

9:24 Speaker 2: Yeah right, right, and that's why they put it in there, because it actually clogs the gland so you don't sweat as much.

9:32 Speaker 4: Exactly.

9:33 Speaker 1: That makes sense.

9:34 Speaker 3: That makes sense, and nobody nobody wants to sweat and be sky.

9:38 Speaker 4: And you're you're really better off if you do sweat.

9:41 Speaker 2: Wedding is a good thing.

9:42 Speaker 4: Your body's supposed to do it for a reason.

9:45 Speaker 1: Yes, that's true. One of the things that surprised me in the book Boden was and and this surprised me in a very sad way. Is I kind of thought as I'm reading it, as you're going through the story, once they identified that the tooth was the that titanium slash aluminum tooth was what was probably the issue, and they took it out, I would have thought. I would have hoped that over time she would start to get better. And I guess she did start to get better, right, but not enough. As you said, even today she's still at only forty percent.

10:25 Speaker 1: Because I remember getting to that part in the story and thinking, Okay, this is probably a good turning point. Right now she's now that they've taken that out, hopefully she's hopefully she's sweating it out. Hopefully you know, it's it's leaving her body, but apparently not or or maybe it has, but the damage is done. I don't know, I mean, what what do you say about that?

10:50 Speaker 2: Yeah? It really is remarkable to me, and I truly don't understand it. We I don't know. I think she might go in here and see we were thinking there might still be fragments of something in her body.

11:05 Speaker 4: Because that's what I'm thinking.

11:06 Speaker 2: There's absolutely no way something takes this long to heal, and I just think her body is whatever is in her body, she just cannot defend it. So yeah, it's it. Truly is remarkable. And if there isn't anything else, I don't know. She just yeah, her body just fighting it off is impossible. It's crazy.

11:31 Speaker 3: I'm wondering what got put into her bloodstream, into her body. Because this is really hitting home for me because of the Tomockspin toxicity that I have. Yeah, I'm Tomock's been toxic. My body can't get rid of it. It implanted itself everywhere and I'll always be Tomock's fin toxic.

11:47 Speaker 4: There's no way to clear it out of my body.

11:49 Speaker 3: So and it has had significant effects to my eyes.

11:54 Speaker 4: And my ears.

11:54 Speaker 3: I mean, my right eye has a hole in it because of it. But I'm like relating to your mom's story so much because I'm thinking, yeah, she had this in her body, and your mouth is actually super super for us, right, This is in fact, it's one of the fastest ways to give you a medication is under your tongue. That is literally one of the fastest ways. So you have to remember that it's also one of the quickest ways to get sick because it's oftentimes people will get a tooth infection those untreated gets into the blood system and now you can actually die from it.

12:27 Speaker 3: I mean, I've seen I have seen people in the intensive care unit with something that started in their mouth, So that's one hundred percent true. So it makes me think that that aluminum that was in her mouth for however long, that there's some kind of like chemical or whatever that got into her bloodstream because of that, and is just simply she's.

12:48 Speaker 4: Got it and it maybe it's just not you know, there's.

12:51 Speaker 3: No there may be no way to completely cleanse her of it, as there is no way to completely cleanse me of tomoxifen always going to have deposits in various parts of my body of it, Yeah.

13:03 Speaker 4: I wonder if that's what it is.

13:05 Speaker 3: You know, I just feel so identify with with your mom so much because of that.

13:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, what inspired you to write the book Boden.

13:17 Speaker 2: Yeah. I So my main reason is I want to get this information out there. I you know, I come back to do I think titanium is the worst thing in the world. No, but if we're going to be still doing these things, it needs to be one hundred percent titanium or I believe that ceramic or zirconia implants are much superior. That's what the holistic dentists are preaching now. But I just want people to be aware that when they put these things in their body, that there's a even if it's a really small chance that it completely ruins your life.

13:52 Speaker 2: And I think that that is going to make you think twice before getting it.

13:57 Speaker 1: Yeah. And I assume too, you're only nineteen, right, so I assume your mom is is pretty young and she's got she's got a lot ahead of her.

14:04 Speaker 2: So yeah, she's forty eight.

14:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So it's it's got to be. And you talked too in the book about how prior to all this happening, she was very healthy, very fit, and uh not someone who I mean, it's it's got to be. Obviously, it would be difficult for anybody to go through this, but I would imagine it's especially difficult for someone like her who's used to being so active.

14:26 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it, it is terrible. I mean none, nothing short of terrible. She she's super fit person, she was a dietitian, physical trainer all that, so that was like her big thing and it's been really difficult, hard.

14:42 Speaker 1: There's a point in the book too that that I found particularly heartbreaking. When she was she she was at a point where she was starting to feel better, significantly better, and it seemed like it was a really good turning point, and she kind of maybe she pushed herself a little too hard or something, but she was out somewhere I think maybe with one of your siblings, if I remember correctly, Yes, and she was really she was having a good day and it was going well and she's feeling good, and then all of a sudden, she just started feeling terrible again, and it was just this enormous setback, and I think she fell, if I remember correctly.

15:19 Speaker 2: Yeah, So so there there was kind of two. So you're referring to when she took my little brother to the zoo, and actually, oh yeah, it wasn't It wasn't anything super crazy. She just she literally just walked too much. That's what she says. She walked too much that day and she felt like a big just drop. She calls it poison in her body because that's it feels like tingling all over, and she felt it drop into her legs, and she said she knew she was in trouble when that happened. Oh god. Yeah.

15:54 Speaker 1: And then it was after that it was kind of back to square one, right.

15:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So she had up to that point, she had gotten that was the best she'd been before that day. She was probably up to a good sixty percent, and then yeah, that happened, and been struggling more with the lower body.

16:13 Speaker 1: Now, wow, that's horrible.

16:15 Speaker 3: It sounds like CPS. Yeah, yeah, because that's what happened with me. Everything was upper body and then it dropped into my legs.

16:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

16:23 Speaker 3: So crazy. I'm so sorry your mom has had to struggle through these. I commend you for what you're doing. It's so important to get this, to get information out there so people are informed and can make informed choices.

16:35 Speaker 2: Absolutely.

16:36 Speaker 1: How does she feel about the book?

16:40 Speaker 2: You know, so kind of funnier right away. So I didn't tell her that I wrote it until it was already done because I knew that she was kind of a stubborn person and it is kind of embarrassed about the whole situation, and probably did not want to be a main focal talking point. But then once I brought it to her, she was really happy and we had a good moment about it, and I told her that this is a message that needs to get out there, and it sucks that you're kind of the talking point, but it has to get out there.

17:10 Speaker 2: I just don't want to see this happen to a lot of people.

17:13 Speaker 1: So has this kind of spurred her to do any other Like does she do any interviews or any kind of media about this or is it just just your book for now that you've written.

17:27 Speaker 2: Mainly just my book for now. Yeah, she's not. She just doesn't really like that kind of thing talking about it. You know, she's just a super she's a stubborn person, she's tough nosed, and she's yeah, like I said, kind of embarrassed about it. So I'll be the guy to talk about it absolutely.

17:44 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, you know, to be able to do this and even survive, you know, you've got to be tough, right, So so yeah, someone not with the fortitude that she obviously has. You know, a would have thrown in the towel by now, But she's obviously a very strong person to be able to continue to deal with this every day and continue to function and live and wow, And have you written other things prior to this or is this your first book or have.

18:11 Speaker 2: You red this was my first book?

18:13 Speaker 1: Wow? Good for you, Good for you. No, it's excellent. Did you have an editor or did you do everything yourself?

18:20 Speaker 2: Or yeah? I had, I had an editor, and then I had a guy who helped me with the cover.

18:25 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, No, it's very good. I encourage people to read it.

18:30 Speaker 4: Oh.

18:30 Speaker 1: I'm also curious because I don't think you addressed this specifically in the book, but in terms of so they removed the titanium, you know, and partially aluminum tooth. Did they replace it with something or does she just not have a tooth there now or what happened there?

18:46 Speaker 2: Yeah, she's just empty there?

18:48 Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, yes, sir, I didn't know if I didn't know if there was a danger in not putting something else there or I mean, I guess at the moment, it probably doesn't much matter because what what she's already dealing with is so difficult that.

19:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, it was like at the time when they were taking it out, you know, they probably would have wanted to put something back over top, but she was just like, I feel so bad right now, just get it out and we'll deal with it after.

19:17 Speaker 1: That makes sense, though, I can definitely understand that. I can understand that is there any is there any kind of hope? What have you and she and your family been able to find anything that any sort of alternative treatment or anything that that might help her or she just kind of kind of stuck at forty percent, And that's that's kind of it for the moment.

19:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've I've been really reaching out to a lot of people I've found in the more alley of holistic dentistry, which is more like natural practice dentistry, and there's some there's potentially some heavy metal detox we're gonna look into down the road here that I want to get into. But she's actually going in I believe next week sometime to get a scan of her head to make sure there's no leftover fragments.

20:13 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, excellent, and then if uh, of course and that's that'll be if they find something, that's half the battle I guess right, locating, But then they have to figure out how to get it out right.

20:26 Speaker 2: So exactly, which then that will be difficult. But if they find something, we'll get it done.

20:31 Speaker 1: Yeah, and at least too then you'll know. Then you'll have an answer, you know, Is that? Is that? What it is? Is there any kind of a theory about why? Because, like I said that, there's that point where she started feeling significantly better. I mean, I assume you've probably all been over this a million times, but has have have you and she and your family tried to figure out what it was during that period that was different that helped her to feel so much better before where she she had that setback and all of that.

21:04 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I I really don't know. It's such a it's such an interesting thing to me. It's like, like you stated earlier, It's like when when once we got it removed, you're thinking, all right, we're probably getting better here, you know, eventually at least, yeah, she was, she was getting so much better, and I'm thinking, oh, yes, I'm fine, my mom's finally gonna be all the way better, and then it was just like one day she walks too much, Like what the f. You know, there's there's no way. I mean, she she was as fit as somebody could be, so to her, even walking a lot, that was like exerting twenty percent.

21:39 Speaker 2: You know, So there's there's just no and I, yeah, I really don't understand. But yeah, to answer your question, I I don't really know what it was exactly. Yeah.

21:50 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it must be so hard to And you do talk about this quite a bit in the book. You know, you get very personal about the challenge is or your family. You know, obviously she's going through this terrible thing, but it but it affects all of you. You know, it affects your dad and your siblings and how hard that is and how you know and when you're a kid, you know, I mean it's probably although adults, it's it's a challenge for anybody right of any age, but especially when you're growing up and you know when you're this started when you were twelve, right, you said you were twelve when this whole thing started, Yes, sir, Like you don't know at that age how to handle all of this emotionally and to see your mother going through this and you're sibling.

22:33 Speaker 1: Are you the oldest of uh? Are you the oldest of three?

22:36 Speaker 4: Is that?

22:37 Speaker 2: Yes, I am the oldest. And then I get right in so right now I'm nineteen. I have a middle brother who's sixteen, and then I have a youngest brother's ten.

22:46 Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, I mean your ten year old brothers. You know, for him, it's got to be very very hard.

22:52 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh absolutely, yeah, Yeah, it was really hard. And I talked about this a little bit. I did a bad job as well. You know, I was I was so young, and I kind of just got caught up in my own little world and I almost I talked about a little bit. I almost got annoyed, you know, it'd say, why am why is this? This just isn't fair to me, selfishly thinking why is my mom like this? This is ridiculous. But then it's like later on it's like, oh man, I was terrible.

23:23 Speaker 3: You know, now, don't do that to yourself, to yourself. You're you're you're young, you're you know, you're a kid. Your brain is wired a particular way, and it's not a bad thing about you that in that moment you weren't able to view the entire the entirety of what was going on. And that's just a process of getting older. You can't fault yourself for being a kid and not seeing a full view because you just didn't get there yet.

23:51 Speaker 4: You know, now you do.

23:52 Speaker 3: Look at everything you're doing. You're doing incredible things. You didn't just come around. You came around to become a champion to make sure that other people are forewarned. And that's absolutely remarkable.

24:04 Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate that.

24:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. I mean it's you know, it's good to reflect on.

24:11 Speaker 2: This.

24:11 Speaker 1: There's such a thin line between you know, kind of reflecting and analyzing, a thin line between that and ruminating on the past and beating yourself up and whatnot. But I but I think it. You know, it's good to reflect on on what you maybe could have done differently so that you're able to be supportive going forward. But again, like Jenny, like Jenny said, I mean, when you're a kid, you know, you're you're still trying to mature and and uh and grow emotionally, and you know, to feel some sort of resentment or frustration along the way or well, you know, that's perfectly normal.

24:47 Speaker 1: That's normal for adults too. But but especially when you're a kid. It's like, you know, you got a you really got got your family, your mom especially, but your family really got delta BA bad hand, uh with this whole situation. So you did the best you could. And and and the great thing about writing this book is, you know, hopefully this is going to help other people. Like you said, you want to raise awareness about this and kind of warn people about what they might be getting into. And uh, you know, make sure too that you're you know, if somebody wants to put titanium in, you read the fine print, make sure you know is ask your doctor, ask the surgeon.

25:24 Speaker 1: Is there anything else other than titanium. I'm trying to think of what else do they use titanium for it? I'm not sure hip replacements right, I think hip replacements are.

25:34 Speaker 3: Everything pretty much is because it doesn't set up a metal detector, and it's it's it's a rather good material, you know, I mean everybody, you know, you need to be informed. Maybe there's things you look out for, you know, maybe maybe there's some kind of allergy involved with aluminium that triggers in some people and not others.

25:52 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know, you don't.

25:54 Speaker 3: I'm a titanium knee and it went remarkably well. Yeah, so there's there's the good and you know, well this couldn't baden anything. So really just being fully informed and then making informed choices, you know, or maybe you know, maybe you get tested for heavy metal or whatever. I don't know what the exact answer is to it, you know.

26:11 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, doesn't sound like anyone does.

26:16 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's kind of it's kind of tough because, like you said, and I kind of say this a little bit too, it's like most people are probably gonna get it and be just fine. But in my opinion, I think if something like this is even a potential, I just don't find myself taking that risk. And I think as time goes on, we're going to start to see alternatives that are safer or at least, like I said, I would like to see everything be all one hundred percent titanium. I would be more okay with that even.

26:49 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Now that you've written this book, do you have plans to write another one or are you going to continue writing or maybe maybe write about other things or what's kind of your trajectory in terms of writing.

27:04 Speaker 2: Yeah? So I never thought I would do anything even close to this. It's funny because when I was probably mid teens, I said how much I hated reading, and then now I'm just I'm just a reading freak. I love reading and I love writing too. So yeah, but as for writing more, my hope, my hope is that we find an answer with my mom, we get her detox, and I want to write about that. That is my That is my end goal.

27:30 Speaker 1: Oh and that would be wonderful. That would be a wonderful book to write, wouldn't it.

27:34 Speaker 2: Yes, that would be That would be awesome.

27:37 Speaker 1: I would love to read that. So yeah, so hopefully, hopefully that happens. Boden Greenley, thank you so much. Before we let you go too, I want to make sure everyone knows where to get your book. Of course, it is called Perseverance, And what do people need to know about how to get it?

27:53 Speaker 2: Yeah? So right now it's available on Amazon.

27:57 Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, well that's easy. Yeah, that's easy. And we should tell people to tell people how to because Boden is not a name you here every day? How do people uh spell that when they're looking for you?

28:09 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's b O E D N. And then Greenley is green l e.

28:15 Speaker 1: Y okay, okay, well listen, thank you so much for joining us today. Like I said, I it's an excellent book. I I want to say I enjoyed reading it, but enjoy isn't quite the right word, because, like I said, it's such a it's such an unhappy subject. But yeah, but I'm really glad. I'm really glad that you sent it to us and that we were able to do this today and help absolutely you know, if even if we help one person or or prevent possibly one person from making a mistake, that's that's a good thing. So I'm really glad you were able to do join us and and even you know, even if it's a while before you have written anything else, if you have any kind of a big update on your mom in the future, we'd love to have you back.

28:58 Speaker 1: This is something that we want to continue to pay attention to and and support you and your family and in any way that we can. So so let's uh, let's definitely stay in touch.

29:07 Speaker 2: Boden, Absolutely great, all right, very good.

29:11 Speaker 1: Boden Greenley, thank you so much, and we'll we'll talk to you again in the future, I'm sure.

29:16 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, guys, appreciate it.

29:18 Speaker 1: You got it, all right, bye bye bye bye. All right. So that was Boden Greenley and he is the author of Perseverance, which you can find at uh amazon dot com. And yeah, like I said, it's a it's a good read, but a very it's a very difficult subject.

29:34 Speaker 4: Medicine always is, absolutely, absolutely