Matt Connarton Unleashed: Journey legal drama continues

0:00 Speaker 1: This drama in the music industry, and Journey has proven

0:03 Speaker 1: to be I'm fascinated by something if you haven't followed it, Journey.

0:09 Speaker 1: Of course, these bandmates in Journey.

0:12 Speaker 2: You know, you can't.

0:12 Speaker 1: Blame Steve Perry really for all these years of not

0:15 Speaker 1: wanting to go back. I can understand why the title

0:19 Speaker 1: of it, yeah that while Billboard has a new article up,

0:22 Speaker 1: don't stop Litigating, do stop Journey bandmates are battling in

0:26 Speaker 1: court yet again. What has always fascinated me about bands

0:31 Speaker 1: that don't get along and they have all this acrimony

0:35 Speaker 1: and even in some instances, you know, suing each other

0:38 Speaker 1: while they're in a band together. I've always been fascinated

0:41 Speaker 1: by the dynamics of that and how weird it must

0:44 Speaker 1: be to be in a band and have issues with

0:48 Speaker 1: other band members to the point where you're suing each

0:51 Speaker 1: other and yet still be able to go on stage

0:54 Speaker 1: and play with them.

0:56 Speaker 2: That's always fascinating to me.

0:59 Speaker 3: It's an odd dynamic because how do you do that

1:02 Speaker 3: and not bash each other with the guitars or something.

1:05 Speaker 2: Well, and and you know there have been instances, I mean, geez.

1:07 Speaker 1: You can find YouTube compilations of of of bands getting

1:11 Speaker 1: into fights on stage, and.

1:13 Speaker 3: Like, what, what's a good one? I can't think of

1:18 Speaker 3: somebody getting into a fight.

1:19 Speaker 1: On Marilyn Manson. And there's a YouTube video of him

1:23 Speaker 1: kicking John five. This is from quite a few years ago,

1:26 Speaker 1: and they're good now, but.

1:27 Speaker 3: On stage he kicked him.

1:28 Speaker 1: He kicked John five. No, no, but but kicked him.

1:33 Speaker 1: And then you see John Five like throw down his

1:37 Speaker 1: guitar and he's gonna fight him, and.

1:38 Speaker 3: Oh geez, yeah they really had.

1:40 Speaker 1: That's that's one example. There's of course, a famous I

1:44 Speaker 1: need to go on.

1:45 Speaker 3: And exploratory now. I want to see these videos.

1:47 Speaker 1: There's a famous example of and there's no video of this,

1:50 Speaker 1: there's only audio, and I think the audio it's hard

1:53 Speaker 1: to hear. But there's a famous example of the Eagles

1:57 Speaker 1: where they almost came to well, they were threttening each other,

2:00 Speaker 1: like Don Felder and Glenn Fry kept threatening that you

2:03 Speaker 1: know after the set, you know we're gonna fight between songs,

2:07 Speaker 1: you know, sniping at each other that kind of thing.

2:12 Speaker 3: So but this this is I mean, I feel like

2:15 Speaker 3: this good reason on this one.

2:17 Speaker 1: Well, but what's always interested me about this is and

2:21 Speaker 1: I remember when I first became sort of fascinated by

2:24 Speaker 1: that dynamic. And it was before I even started playing

2:26 Speaker 1: in bands myself. And you know, when you play in

2:28 Speaker 1: a band, you know sometimes you have conflict. And although

2:30 Speaker 1: rarely most most of the bands I played in were

2:32 Speaker 1: pretty free of inter band drama. But when I was like,

2:35 Speaker 1: and my dad, you know, he listens to the show,

2:36 Speaker 1: he might remember this. When I was a kid, I

2:39 Speaker 1: watched a documentary with my dad and I don't remember

2:44 Speaker 1: if it was a documentary specifically about Brian Brian Adams,

2:49 Speaker 1: No from the Beach Boys, Brian Wilson. I don't remember

2:54 Speaker 1: if it was specifically about Brian Wilson or if it

2:56 Speaker 1: was a broader documentary about the Beach Boys. But there

2:59 Speaker 1: was a point, and it was really when they were

3:01 Speaker 1: kind of at the height of their their fame where

3:05 Speaker 1: they were touring and the group and obviously the Beach Boys,

3:08 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of members. They had kind of split

3:10 Speaker 1: into two factions and because they weren't getting along, like

3:15 Speaker 1: there was the Brian Wilson faction and the Mike Love faction.

3:20 Speaker 3: Didn't even know that and.

3:21 Speaker 1: They would actually enter the stage when it was time

3:24 Speaker 1: to play. They would enter the stage both factions from

3:27 Speaker 1: opposite sides of the stage, so that they because they

3:30 Speaker 1: tried to keep apart, almost like two rival gangs. So

3:33 Speaker 1: they would keep apart, you know, before and after the shows,

3:38 Speaker 1: but they would actually enter from opposite sides. And then

3:40 Speaker 1: of course they wouldn't interact at all except for playing

3:42 Speaker 1: these songs together.

3:43 Speaker 3: But I mean, just that's gonna be so bizarre to

3:45 Speaker 3: stand on a stage playing music. You would think, so

3:48 Speaker 3: you're together, but you're not. Well, how does that work?

3:51 Speaker 3: Did they just because they're not going to play their

3:52 Speaker 3: guitars and lean into each other?

3:54 Speaker 2: Right?

3:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, none of the like did they have like you know,

3:56 Speaker 3: you stay away one hundred feet from me on the stage,

4:00 Speaker 3: don't cross this line. They're gonna take a piece of

4:02 Speaker 3: tape and like put it down the middle. This is

4:04 Speaker 3: my side.

4:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so weird.

4:06 Speaker 1: And but I also wonder too about practical things like

4:10 Speaker 1: how do you even write a set.

4:11 Speaker 2: List if if you can't even speak to each other,

4:14 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? An intermediary or there's probably

4:18 Speaker 2: one person who who.

4:19 Speaker 3: Is in charge with the legal pad of paper and

4:21 Speaker 3: he's going back and forth. We want to play these songs. Okay,

4:23 Speaker 3: I'll go to the other faction. Can you agree to

4:26 Speaker 3: these songs in this order? No, we need to move

4:28 Speaker 3: this and this and they go back. That's gotta be.

4:31 Speaker 2: Oh boy, Yeah, it's got to be very because we.

4:33 Speaker 3: Have like lawyers negotiating everything and have like documents on

4:38 Speaker 3: how what how the set is gonna run and how

4:40 Speaker 3: much time each one's gonna get. That's terrible and this

4:45 Speaker 3: is sad. It's like all these bands from when we

4:47 Speaker 3: were younger are like suing each other, you know what

4:52 Speaker 3: I mean, Like Darryl holl and John Oh, it's that's

4:54 Speaker 3: lawsuits and Journey's got lawsuits and like everybody's against you.

5:00 Speaker 3: But the weird and.

5:01 Speaker 1: W but the weird thing with Journey is some of

5:04 Speaker 1: this litigation that's been going on between Jonathan Kane and

5:07 Speaker 1: Neil Sean has been going on for years. Like they've

5:11 Speaker 1: been out on tours while there was active litigation between them,

5:16 Speaker 1: you know. So that's like, you know, that's a step

5:18 Speaker 1: further than just not getting along or not really speaking

5:21 Speaker 1: to each other much.

5:22 Speaker 3: But they have their they have themselves set up as

5:24 Speaker 3: a company with directors.

5:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, which which is which Steve Perry is still a

5:30 Speaker 2: part of.

5:30 Speaker 1: By the way, Oh, and then there was that weird

5:33 Speaker 1: thing a few years ago where and this for this thing,

5:36 Speaker 1: I think Jonathan Kane and Neil Sean were on the

5:39 Speaker 1: same side where Ross Valerie and the other guy's name

5:43 Speaker 1: I can't remember now, Steve something. They actually they actually

5:50 Speaker 1: tried to take over the company. They tried to do

5:52 Speaker 1: some weird legal maneuvering where they were going to take

5:55 Speaker 1: over ownership of the company, the Control's Journey. Yeah, and

5:59 Speaker 1: they ended up And that's why they ended up getting

6:01 Speaker 1: kicked out of the band was because they tried to

6:03 Speaker 1: take over. And I think Steve Ferry even got involved. Again,

6:07 Speaker 1: he's not in the band, hasn't been for decades now

6:10 Speaker 1: for them now, Arnelle Paneda.

6:12 Speaker 2: He's been in the band for a long time. Yeah,

6:15 Speaker 2: he's been in the band a long time now.

6:17 Speaker 3: But okay, so let's get into some meat. Shoan Is

6:23 Speaker 3: was sued by Cain because he said Caine says, you

6:29 Speaker 3: unfairly blocked me from the company's American Express account. But

6:34 Speaker 3: Shona is saying, yeah, but I did that because you're

6:37 Speaker 3: using it, you're misusing it, and you're using money to

6:40 Speaker 3: pay for like you in your wife's hotel room. So this.

6:44 Speaker 3: It's always the money. It's always the money. It's always

6:48 Speaker 3: the money. But Caine is claiming that Shan has spent

6:51 Speaker 3: up to ten thousand dollars per night for hotel rooms

6:59 Speaker 3: during their most tour. Ten thousand dollars a night. Where

7:03 Speaker 3: are you staying? Where in the heck.

7:06 Speaker 2: Are you staying this journey? They're famous?

7:08 Speaker 3: Oh my god, like you could. You could rent a

7:11 Speaker 3: home for somebody for a year for one night stay

7:14 Speaker 3: in this hotel. It's insane. Who spends Why why do

7:19 Speaker 3: you spend ten grand on a hotel room? Why you're

7:22 Speaker 3: gonna you're barely gonna be in it.

7:24 Speaker 1: I mean, if it was somebody like Motley Crue, you

7:26 Speaker 1: know back in the day, you would you would figure, well,

7:28 Speaker 1: they probably wreck everything, and they did.

7:29 Speaker 3: That's why they needed ten thousand for a night though,

7:32 Speaker 3: because they had to replace hoteur.

7:34 Speaker 1: But I don't think Jonathan Kane is throwing a couch

7:36 Speaker 1: out a window.

7:37 Speaker 3: Sounds like he's being exorbitant in a spending Yeah, you know,

7:42 Speaker 3: so Cain has shown each control exactly fifty percent of

7:46 Speaker 3: the company. Yeah, so which is you've got You've got

7:51 Speaker 3: heads just solid into each other.

7:53 Speaker 1: Which is not the same as ownership. We should we

7:54 Speaker 1: should clarify.

7:55 Speaker 3: That control versus ownership is different.

7:57 Speaker 1: Right right, Because, like I said, Steve Perry still own

8:00 Speaker 1: I don't know the guys who are cast out of

8:02 Speaker 1: the band, I don't know if they still own part

8:04 Speaker 1: of the company as well. Like I said, they tried

8:07 Speaker 1: to take control of it and it got them fired

8:09 Speaker 1: from the band. But that doesn't mean they don't still

8:11 Speaker 1: own stakes in the company. But yes, Neil Sean and

8:14 Speaker 1: Jonathan Kane, and by the way, for it.

8:16 Speaker 3: Give me any number of people with steaks in the company.

8:18 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, it's not even limited to the band

8:21 Speaker 3: members themselves.

8:22 Speaker 1: And for those who don't know, Neil Sean of course

8:23 Speaker 1: is a guitar player, and Jonathan Kane is the keyboard

8:26 Speaker 1: player who occasionally plays guitar on some songs that don't

8:29 Speaker 1: have keyboard, like a Stone in Love for example.

8:34 Speaker 3: It's like they're going head to head. So another one

8:36 Speaker 3: of the issues that these guys are doing is one

8:38 Speaker 3: of them will fire somebody and then maybe a few

8:41 Speaker 3: hours or days later, the other one will rehire the

8:44 Speaker 3: same person that got fired. Yeah, so you got one,

8:47 Speaker 3: director goes, I can't stand you get out and then

8:50 Speaker 3: like two days later, the other one goes, come back,

8:53 Speaker 3: come back.

8:54 Speaker 2: Well, here's what this is.

8:55 Speaker 3: It's like it's it's like tip for tat, I'm gonna

8:59 Speaker 3: get you.

9:00 Speaker 2: This is you know, Yeah, it's not It's no way

9:02 Speaker 2: to run a business.

9:03 Speaker 3: No, this is terrible. I mean and I can't even

9:06 Speaker 3: imagine me. Can you imagine being an employee if one

9:09 Speaker 3: you get to worry, if one director doesn't like you,

9:12 Speaker 3: they might toss you. You get a stay in somebody's

9:15 Speaker 3: good side to stay in the company.

9:17 Speaker 1: Well, this is from Billboard dot com. It says a

9:19 Speaker 1: never any legal battle between Journey members Jonathan Kan and

9:22 Speaker 1: Neil Sean erupted again this week, with Kane filing a

9:26 Speaker 1: new lawsuit against Sean overclaims that is exorbitant spending is

9:28 Speaker 1: threatening to cripple the band's touring operations, and a complaint

9:33 Speaker 1: made public and Delaware Court on Tuesday, July thirtieth. Kane

9:36 Speaker 1: claimed that Shawn's alleged spending, including unilaterally chartering private jets

9:41 Speaker 1: and charging personal expenses to their shared American Express card,

9:45 Speaker 1: has led to a deadlock that must be resolved. Kine's

9:49 Speaker 1: lawyers right quote. The deadlock between the company's directors, is

9:54 Speaker 1: now interfering with the company's ability to take even the

9:56 Speaker 1: most basic actions, and is causing significant disruptions in the

10:00 Speaker 1: smooth operation of the company. The problems posed a severe

10:04 Speaker 1: threat of harm to the company and to Journey's storied

10:08 Speaker 1: history of musical greatness.

10:10 Speaker 2: Unquote.

10:11 Speaker 1: Legal battles are nothing new for Sean and Kin, the

10:14 Speaker 1: two remaining members of an iconic rock band that still

10:17 Speaker 1: is printing money money decades after its Don't Stop Believe

10:20 Speaker 1: in Heyday. Back in twenty twenty two, Sean sued Caine

10:24 Speaker 1: over allegations that his bandmate had unfairly blocked his access

10:28 Speaker 1: to the American Express account, interfering with the band's activities

10:31 Speaker 1: and delaying payments to crew members and vendors. A few

10:34 Speaker 1: months later, Caine sued him back, claiming he had placed

10:38 Speaker 1: those restrictions on the MX to stop Sean from misusing

10:41 Speaker 1: the company card, including spending four hundred thousand dollars in

10:45 Speaker 1: a single month. So they both accuse each other of overspending.

10:50 Speaker 1: The new case, filed in Delawarre's Clansery Court, largely rehashes

10:54 Speaker 1: those same disagreements over spending, like Caine claiming that Sean

10:58 Speaker 1: has quote spent up to ten thousand dollars per night

11:02 Speaker 1: for hotel rooms for him and his wife unquote during

11:05 Speaker 1: their most recent tour. But in technical terms, the new

11:09 Speaker 1: case focuses narrowly on the governance of Freedom twenty twenty, Inc.

11:14 Speaker 1: A Delaware based corporate entity that's that they created to

11:18 Speaker 1: operate Journeys touring. Since Cain and Sean each control exactly

11:23 Speaker 1: fifty percent of the company, the lawsuit says the two

11:26 Speaker 1: have reached an impasse that is spilled into other aspects

11:30 Speaker 1: of the band's operations, like managing their staffers. By the way,

11:39 Speaker 1: the reason this company exists to begin with this Freedom

11:41 Speaker 1: twenty twenty Inc. Is because apparently a number of years ago,

11:45 Speaker 1: this if I'm remembering this correctly, this is what I've read,

11:49 Speaker 1: because I've tried to follow all the journey drama as

11:51 Speaker 1: much as possible, and I am a fan, you know.

11:55 Speaker 1: But a number of years ago, Neil shown and his

12:02 Speaker 1: wife started looking into They started looking more closely at

12:08 Speaker 1: journeys of financial operations as a band from a business standpoint,

12:13 Speaker 1: because they had a manager and they felt like the manager.

12:17 Speaker 1: Not that I don't think this was a case of

12:19 Speaker 1: the manager. You know, you hear about this a lot

12:21 Speaker 1: in the music industry. You know, a manager stealing or

12:24 Speaker 1: or somebody's ripping off the band, or you know, or

12:27 Speaker 1: a band suing their record label because they feel like

12:29 Speaker 1: their record label is stealing from them.

12:30 Speaker 2: There's a lot of horror stories.

12:33 Speaker 1: But this was a case of they just they started

12:36 Speaker 1: to when they looked into things. Neil Sewan and his

12:38 Speaker 1: wife felt like Journey was getting a raw deal.

12:42 Speaker 2: You know, they were playing.

12:42 Speaker 1: These venues and but they didn't seem to be making

12:46 Speaker 1: that much money, and they didn't understand where the money

12:48 Speaker 1: was going, what was happening to their profits and whatnot.

12:50 Speaker 1: So they I think they just basically fired their entire

12:54 Speaker 1: management team at the time and said, we're going to

12:56 Speaker 1: run everything ourselves. Other artists have tried to do that.

13:00 Speaker 1: It's hard to do at that level.

13:03 Speaker 2: Years ago.

13:04 Speaker 1: I saw a documentary about back in the nineties when

13:08 Speaker 1: Duran Duran tried to do it.

13:10 Speaker 2: They actually tried to.

13:12 Speaker 1: They fired their their management team and said, We're just

13:14 Speaker 1: going to do everything ourselves.

13:15 Speaker 2: We can do everything ourselves. Why are we paying out

13:17 Speaker 2: all this money?

13:19 Speaker 3: And oh yeah, they did that.

13:21 Speaker 2: They well they did.

13:22 Speaker 1: You might not have known, because unless you happen to

13:24 Speaker 1: see this particular documentary, because it didn't last long. They

13:28 Speaker 1: did it, they tried it, and they said, oh my god,

13:31 Speaker 1: we are in so far over our heads. We cannot

13:34 Speaker 1: run this band this way. So then they undid, you know,

13:38 Speaker 1: they hired a new management team and everything, and they

13:41 Speaker 1: said never again. Kiss during the eighties for a long

13:47 Speaker 1: period of time, they didn't have a manager per se.

13:51 Speaker 1: They had their the accounting firm they were working with,

13:53 Speaker 1: Glickman Marx was kind of their kind of their managers,

13:57 Speaker 1: and that they they you know, we kind of ran

14:01 Speaker 1: the business of Kiss. But Kiss was essentially self managed

14:07 Speaker 1: actually at a couple of points during their career, and

14:10 Speaker 1: they managed to pull it off.

14:13 Speaker 3: Jean's are real business minded guy though, like.

14:15 Speaker 1: Well, and so is Paul Stanley and they yeah, and

14:19 Speaker 1: they they managed they got away.

14:21 Speaker 3: They've always treated it like a business. Yes, that's a

14:24 Speaker 3: big and they also don't have as much I mean, yeah,

14:28 Speaker 3: there was some alcohol, but they didn't have like that

14:31 Speaker 3: as a as a bigger issue, right, Yeah, whereas other

14:36 Speaker 3: bands of that era, it was all of the band

14:38 Speaker 3: was doing that, right. These guys kept their heads on straight.

14:41 Speaker 2: The whole time.

14:42 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and we're always treating it like a business.

14:45 Speaker 1: Right yeah, like all this stuff with Journey, you cannot

14:49 Speaker 1: imagine this happening and kiss, anything like this would would

14:53 Speaker 1: never happen in Kiss. So again, this is from Billboard

14:58 Speaker 1: dot com. In technical terms, the new case focus is narrowly.

15:04 Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry, I read that part already. Let me

15:06 Speaker 1: go down here. So Cain's lawyer, this is what Jonathan

15:12 Speaker 1: Kaine's lawyers say in the lawsuit. Quote, Petitioner and respondent

15:16 Speaker 1: are deadlocked with regard to issues concerning the hiring and

15:20 Speaker 1: firing of company employees and band crew members. It is

15:25 Speaker 1: common that one director will terminate an employee or crew member,

15:28 Speaker 1: and hours or days later, the other director will rehire

15:32 Speaker 1: that same individual.

15:33 Speaker 2: Unquote.

15:34 Speaker 1: As you mentioned earlier, the lawsuit claims the strife between

15:37 Speaker 1: Cain and Shawn has also led to other problems, including

15:40 Speaker 1: disagreements about whether to accept an advance from AEG for

15:45 Speaker 1: their most recent tour, the purchase of cancelation insurance, and

15:49 Speaker 1: other problems. Cain's lawyer's right quote. The deadlock between petitioner

15:53 Speaker 1: and respondent has created a toxic internal environment. Rather than

15:57 Speaker 1: focusing on the band's performances during a major international tour.

16:01 Speaker 1: The band's members and crew now find themselves caught in

16:04 Speaker 1: the middle of the director's disputes, afraid of performing their

16:07 Speaker 1: job responsibilities, and pressured to align with one director or

16:11 Speaker 1: another unquote that's.

16:13 Speaker 3: Horrible work environment. Oh yeah, the music can't imagine.

16:18 Speaker 2: The music industry is hard enough without all this.

16:20 Speaker 3: Talk about hiding from your bosses.

16:22 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, get in the bathroom they're coming, well, or

16:25 Speaker 1: hiding from one of them, exactly.

16:27 Speaker 3: From both of them. I feel like I just don't

16:29 Speaker 3: want to be in the middle of any of this.

16:31 Speaker 2: I think in this stay in this situation.

16:33 Speaker 1: Probably some of them they hide from whichever one fired

16:36 Speaker 1: them and try and try to stay close to whichever one.

16:39 Speaker 3: Really doesn't see me. You won't know I got.

16:42 Speaker 1: Brought back, Yeah, exactly, it says here. As a solution,

16:46 Speaker 1: Ken is asking the court to appoint a neutral third

16:49 Speaker 1: director of the company who will be able to issue

16:51 Speaker 1: the tie breaking vote during disputes over key issues.

16:54 Speaker 3: Well, what they're like divorced parents fighting over their children.

16:57 Speaker 2: Well, what they need is a manager. See it sounds

17:00 Speaker 2: like they don't have a.

17:01 Speaker 3: Third person to be Well, they're supposed to have a

17:03 Speaker 3: third person, but it doesn't really go into the much.

17:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, well it sounds like.

17:07 Speaker 3: Oh the ohh whoats because I jumped ahead.

17:10 Speaker 1: It sounds like they don't have a manager either, right,

17:12 Speaker 1: so they're they're just they're running everything themselves. I think

17:16 Speaker 1: there's managers to a point, well, because part of what

17:19 Speaker 1: a manager of a band does is say, you know,

17:21 Speaker 1: like if there's a dispute like this, the manager says, look,

17:24 Speaker 1: we're going to do this.

17:25 Speaker 2: You know, you guys hired me to run this band.

17:27 Speaker 2: Here's what we're gonna do.

17:28 Speaker 3: Kin is asking the court to appoint a third director

17:33 Speaker 3: who could be a neutral director that could issue a

17:36 Speaker 3: tie breaking vote on all of these issues. Because you

17:39 Speaker 3: just it's divorced. It's like divorced parents fighting over the

17:42 Speaker 3: kids in the house.

17:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's.

17:45 Speaker 3: You get these two equal in ownership, I mean equal

17:48 Speaker 3: indecision making right fifty to fifty directors and they don't agree.

17:53 Speaker 3: And they not only do they not agree, they set

17:56 Speaker 3: out to go against the other one. Oh you fired so,

17:59 Speaker 3: and so I'm gonna bring them back.

18:00 Speaker 2: Yeah.

18:01 Speaker 3: So this is yeah, they're it's it's it's sad. It's

18:08 Speaker 3: sad to see all this happening. But I mean, you

18:11 Speaker 3: look at some of the stuff he's reporting. Kane is

18:16 Speaker 3: claiming he put the restrictions on the card because he's

18:21 Speaker 3: the other guy. Sorry, Sean spent four hundred thousand dollars

18:26 Speaker 3: on the American Express card in one month. One month.

18:33 Speaker 3: I think I could live off of that much money

18:34 Speaker 3: for the rest of my life and he spent that

18:37 Speaker 3: one month.

18:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's crazy.

18:40 Speaker 3: And American Express is the one that you got to

18:42 Speaker 3: pay off everything the next month. You can't carry a

18:44 Speaker 3: balance on that sucker. So one dude does four hundred thousand,

18:49 Speaker 3: and everybody else is even just using it reasonably like

18:51 Speaker 3: they're supposed to. That's a heck of a month filled

18:54 Speaker 3: the way. Jeez, gonna buy a house, buy a couple.

18:58 Speaker 2: Of houses, Yeah, you can do a whole lot.

19:01 Speaker 1: That's crazy, says In a statement to Billboard, Kaine's attorney

19:05 Speaker 1: said Liebisman. Leibsman stressed that his client was not seeking

19:09 Speaker 1: damages and only wanted to resolve the impasse.

19:11 Speaker 2: Quote.

19:11 Speaker 1: It is expected that the third director will provide resolution

19:14 Speaker 1: to the issues between John and Neil. It is John's

19:17 Speaker 1: intent for Journey to continue providing great live music throughout

19:20 Speaker 1: the current tour. Unquote, an attorney who was who has

19:24 Speaker 1: represented Sean in his previous litigation with Kin, did not

19:28 Speaker 1: return a request for comment. Okay, And then it gets

19:30 Speaker 1: to what I was talking about earlier. It says here

19:32 Speaker 1: even before Sean and Kin came to blows, members of

19:34 Speaker 1: Journey had been sparring in court for years. Back in

19:38 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, the two men teamed up to file a

19:40 Speaker 1: lawsuit against former drummer Steve Smith Steven Smith that's rights,

19:45 Speaker 1: I couldn't remember his last name, and former bassist Ross

19:48 Speaker 1: Valerie over the band's name, and in twenty twenty two,

19:52 Speaker 1: former lead singer Steve Perry took legal action to help

19:55 Speaker 1: Sean and Kane from registering Oh I'm sorry to stop,

20:00 Speaker 1: Rather not to help, but to stop Sean and Kane

20:02 Speaker 1: from registering federal trademarks on the names of many of

20:06 Speaker 1: the band's biggest hits.

20:07 Speaker 3: Yeah.

20:07 Speaker 2: I remember that.

20:08 Speaker 1: That was interesting too, Yeah, because part of what when

20:13 Speaker 1: Neil Shawn and his wife started looking into things, part

20:15 Speaker 1: of what they realized was that you know, somebody could,

20:21 Speaker 1: for example, make a T shirt that says don't stop

20:24 Speaker 1: believing on it, and you know, well, why aren't we

20:28 Speaker 1: making that money when people here don't stop believing they

20:30 Speaker 1: think of our song, you know, we should register these trademarks.

20:34 Speaker 1: And and you know, Steve Perry's going, wait a minute,

20:38 Speaker 1: I wrote those lyrics. Why do you get to trademark that?

20:42 Speaker 2: You know? So he actually helped prevent them from doing that.

20:45 Speaker 3: Why wasn't it done under the company? Like it makes

20:50 Speaker 3: I get what they're.

20:51 Speaker 1: Saying, Well, it probably was, but but Steve Perry said, nope,

20:55 Speaker 1: you're not doing that.

20:56 Speaker 3: Well, I don't blame him, You blame like you said,

21:00 Speaker 3: he still has ownership. Yeah, he may not be in

21:02 Speaker 3: the decision room, which it sounds like it's not a

21:04 Speaker 3: fun place to be anyway, Right, I wouldn't blame them

21:07 Speaker 3: one bit. Yeah, it's awful how these bands have devolved

21:14 Speaker 3: into this, you know what I'm saying, Like, Yeah, I

21:18 Speaker 3: mean when I can think back when I was a

21:20 Speaker 3: kid and they look so fun and happy, Like what

21:23 Speaker 3: happened to you? Guys? You're fun and happy? Now they're

21:27 Speaker 3: sueing each other. Although I can't blame them all right,

21:29 Speaker 3: I'm sorry. If we had a business and all of

21:32 Speaker 3: a sudden, you're looking at a four hundred thousand dollars

21:34 Speaker 3: bill on one of your charge cards by one person

21:38 Speaker 3: in the business, I'd lose my mind. Yeah, I can't

21:42 Speaker 3: even imagine seeing a bill like that and not losing

21:45 Speaker 3: your mind. And what is the other guy thinking? Is

21:49 Speaker 3: he going like I deserve this? So I'm just gonna

21:51 Speaker 3: keep pulling this card out like I deserve this. I mean,

21:56 Speaker 3: you got to tell yourself something to talk yourself into

21:58 Speaker 3: making it to rent a ten thousand dollars.

22:03 Speaker 2: I disagree.

22:04 Speaker 1: I don't think you have to talk yourself into anything

22:06 Speaker 1: at that point when you're that rich and you're that famous.

22:10 Speaker 1: I think something happens psychologically where no, I don't think they.

22:14 Speaker 1: I think that's the problem. They don't have to talk

22:16 Speaker 1: themselves into anything. And a lot of famous people, people

22:22 Speaker 1: who've been very wealthy, who then they go through a

22:23 Speaker 1: thing where they have it and then they lose it

22:25 Speaker 1: all they talk about this how at the height of

22:28 Speaker 1: their fame and wealth, they just kind of assume they

22:31 Speaker 1: get into this mindset where they just assume it's going

22:34 Speaker 1: to be that way forever. They're going to be super

22:36 Speaker 1: famous forever, the money's going to be coming in forever,

22:39 Speaker 1: so they can spend as much as they want to

22:41 Speaker 1: and never have to worry about it, and it just

22:43 Speaker 1: becomes a thing. And in Journeys case, not that I'm

22:48 Speaker 1: justifying it, but you can almost see where because he Journey,

22:53 Speaker 1: you have a band that was at their peak in

22:57 Speaker 1: the eighties but has actually still managed to I mean,

23:02 Speaker 1: you know, haven't had a hit song in decades, but

23:05 Speaker 1: they still love the classics, and they still do so

23:07 Speaker 1: much business touring. They can still tour arenas and and

23:12 Speaker 1: still make so much money. And that's really where the

23:14 Speaker 1: money is anyway, That and merchandising and and so in

23:18 Speaker 1: their case, the money actually has never stopped coming.

23:22 Speaker 3: So but this is a grotesque greed that's involved in that.

23:25 Speaker 3: I'm sorry because I mean, I can't I if I

23:28 Speaker 3: had all of this, I won the lottery, I have

23:30 Speaker 3: money now. I still I wouldn't want to go buy

23:34 Speaker 3: a ginormous frickin' mansion that costs a fortune to run

23:38 Speaker 3: and takes incredible amounts of work to clean. I'd want

23:41 Speaker 3: a nice, little small place that has a little garden,

23:45 Speaker 3: makes me happy and money in the bank to sustain

23:47 Speaker 3: me for the rest of my days. I just I

23:51 Speaker 3: always I'm always in It's always mind boggling when you

23:54 Speaker 3: look at some of these people and it's like, why

23:56 Speaker 3: did you buy that ginormous house for two people? How

24:02 Speaker 3: does that work? Why is that worth it? Why is

24:05 Speaker 3: it worth it to have a five hundred dollars electric bill?

24:08 Speaker 3: And you know, I imagine a three hundred dollars gas bill.

24:11 Speaker 3: I mean, I can't imagine how much it costs just

24:13 Speaker 3: to run the house itself. Now, how much work does

24:17 Speaker 3: it take to upkeep it, clean it, to paint, to

24:21 Speaker 3: fix it. I mean I watch my dad upkeep his house,

24:24 Speaker 3: and he's meticulous. This house is gorgeous, but he works

24:27 Speaker 3: his bum off all the time, every week, every year,

24:31 Speaker 3: every month to keep that house looking that way. It

24:34 Speaker 3: takes work to keep it that way. It doesn't just

24:36 Speaker 3: magically stay that way. These guys get this money and

24:39 Speaker 3: they buy these monstrosities of homes. And I've got ten cars.

24:45 Speaker 3: Why you can only drive one at a time. Why

24:48 Speaker 3: why is it that when you get some money in

24:51 Speaker 3: your hands, all of a sudden, there's this grotesque greed

24:55 Speaker 3: and you forget all of the decency that you used

24:57 Speaker 3: to be, or the decent things you used to say,

25:00 Speaker 3: or the things you used to Oh gee, I wish

25:02 Speaker 3: I could do this? Or do you wish I could

25:04 Speaker 3: help that one? But then the minute the money gets

25:06 Speaker 3: into the hand, it's like you forget all of that, right,

25:09 Speaker 3: But these yeah, something happens. I think you're right, something

25:12 Speaker 3: happens to these people's brains that they think, well, since

25:15 Speaker 3: I always have this, I should I must own a

25:19 Speaker 3: four million dollar ginormous home that I only live in

25:23 Speaker 3: two rooms of, because really, you can't enjoy a house that.

25:28 Speaker 3: How do you enjoy a house that being a one person?

25:30 Speaker 1: I come on, I think it's probably for people it's

25:34 Speaker 1: just all about status. It's ego showing off an ego.

25:37 Speaker 1: And I know everyone says this, but I really do

25:43 Speaker 1: think it's It's true in my case and in yours too.

25:46 Speaker 1: But yeah, if I if I had that kind of money,

25:49 Speaker 1: that's not where I would put it because I'm something

25:52 Speaker 1: of a minimalist, like I don't want Like, there's nothing

25:56 Speaker 1: about the idea of living in a mansion with rooms

25:59 Speaker 1: I don't even use, just to have it. There's nothing

26:03 Speaker 1: about that that appeals to me. No, theres nothing about

26:06 Speaker 1: it that appeals to me.

26:07 Speaker 3: Of course, my brain goes to, you know, it's how

26:10 Speaker 3: much upkeep that is. But yeah, but plus I like

26:12 Speaker 3: small and cozy.

26:13 Speaker 2: But I think I think most people though it is.

26:16 Speaker 1: It is strange, and it's something I've noticed from what

26:17 Speaker 1: I realized this from a pretty young age.

26:20 Speaker 2: Most people, if you talk to them about about what

26:24 Speaker 2: it would be like to be rich, they do.

26:26 Speaker 1: They will tell you, oh, yeah, I'd have ten cars

26:30 Speaker 1: and a mansion, and it's like, really, you wouldn't, You

26:33 Speaker 1: wouldn't that's what you would do. Like I do think

26:37 Speaker 1: there's something in the human condition where most people I

26:39 Speaker 1: think we're the odd ones.

26:41 Speaker 2: I think I think most people, yeah, that's what they

26:43 Speaker 2: think about.

26:44 Speaker 3: And it's like, why, but I only need to drive

26:46 Speaker 3: one car at a time. I could take two cars

26:49 Speaker 3: and be quite content and take the other eight cars

26:52 Speaker 3: and go feed like an entire freaking school system. There's

26:56 Speaker 3: so much you could do with that crazy amount of money. Yeah,

26:59 Speaker 3: you know what I mean that I can't. It's like

27:02 Speaker 3: people who spend thousands of dollars on these red bottom shoes.

27:06 Speaker 3: I can't understand it to me because to spend thousands

27:09 Speaker 3: of dollars on a pair of shoes, to me sounds

27:11 Speaker 3: like grotesque greed. Like I don't need a decent pair

27:15 Speaker 3: of shoes doesn't cost that much because I grew up though,

27:20 Speaker 3: I grew up with a dad that taught me the

27:21 Speaker 3: value of a dollar, you know, So you know, you

27:24 Speaker 3: didn't take anything for granted. If you got a pair.

27:27 Speaker 3: When I got to go to the shoes store and

27:28 Speaker 3: I got to come home with two or three pairs

27:30 Speaker 3: of shoes, that was a big deal. To get two

27:33 Speaker 3: pairs or to get three pairs, that was a big deal.

27:35 Speaker 3: That was that was money. And for us, you know,

27:38 Speaker 3: it's not a pair of shoes, but ooh, I got

27:40 Speaker 3: your dress shoes and sneakers like that was a big deal.

27:43 Speaker 3: To be able to do that. I can't imagine. I

27:47 Speaker 3: don't know. I guess yeah, maybe we are the odd

27:49 Speaker 3: balls out. It's just it takes very little to make

27:51 Speaker 3: me happy. And I can't imagine wasting so much money

27:56 Speaker 3: when there's so much in the world that you could

27:58 Speaker 3: do to make I make. How many lives did you

28:00 Speaker 3: save with one car?

28:03 Speaker 2: Hill?

28:04 Speaker 4: Hello?

28:05 Speaker 2: Hello?

28:07 Speaker 4: Is this the mass?

28:09 Speaker 1: Oh?

28:09 Speaker 2: My goodness is this John C.

28:11 Speaker 3: Hopwood?

28:13 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm listening to your conversation. Uh, I don't know

28:19 Speaker 4: how old was Journey when they made it big? How

28:22 Speaker 4: what was the average age.

28:24 Speaker 3: They were pretty young, weren't they.

28:26 Speaker 2: Yeah, they had to be pretty young.

28:27 Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess and say I'm gonna guess in say

28:29 Speaker 1: twenty five.

28:32 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's a big difference, though. Richard Burretton

28:35 Speaker 4: always said there's a big difference becoming really famous when

28:38 Speaker 4: you're very young, like Elizabeth Taylor and Marion and Brando

28:42 Speaker 4: where it was almost forty when he became famous and rich.

28:46 Speaker 4: You know, you're immature, right, and so you buy your toys.

28:50 Speaker 4: But with the Beatles, who were you know, very young

28:53 Speaker 4: when they got rich. Both think houses and everything were

28:55 Speaker 4: tacked right off. So I just thought I brought that.

28:59 Speaker 4: Bring that great? Shall miss you?

29:03 Speaker 2: Take care all right, Thanks for the call time. I

29:05 Speaker 2: appreciate it, bub Bye.

29:07 Speaker 3: It was nice.

29:07 Speaker 2: We haven't heard from John and Alote.

29:08 Speaker 1: I know, yeah, is he on the other side of

29:11 Speaker 1: the world now, I'm not sure. He sounded like he

29:14 Speaker 1: was on a train or something. It's very loud. No,

29:16 Speaker 1: it was nice to hear from him though. Yeah, uh,

29:19 Speaker 1: I wonder you know, to John's point about how they

29:22 Speaker 1: were very young.

29:24 Speaker 3: Well, that has an aspect of course, because when I

29:26 Speaker 3: was younger, I was very stupid now that I look

29:28 Speaker 3: back on myself.

29:29 Speaker 1: And I wonder, I wonder John's observation. I wonder if

29:33 Speaker 1: that that's gotta be thinking, Is that part of the

29:35 Speaker 1: problem if you become if you do become so successful

29:40 Speaker 1: so young, and you have all that money, you establish

29:42 Speaker 1: a pattern. You know, I was an atherrapist. We talk

29:45 Speaker 1: a lot about patterns. You establish a pattern of spending

29:48 Speaker 1: recklessly and foolishly and not practically and uh, and so

29:54 Speaker 1: whereas as John said, like Richard Burton, who you know,

29:57 Speaker 1: didn't become wealthy until he was in its forties, if

30:01 Speaker 1: you become wealthy at an older age, you're you're going

30:04 Speaker 1: to be more practical and maybe and maybe not be

30:08 Speaker 1: so foolish as to just assume this gravy train's gonna

30:11 Speaker 1: go forever. And again, in the case of Journey, it

30:12 Speaker 1: actually has gone forever. But but uh, but a little

30:15 Speaker 1: more practical with your money.

30:19 Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I think that's an interesting point.

30:21 Speaker 3: It is like the I mean, to spend money the

30:23 Speaker 3: way that that was being spent, it has to you

30:26 Speaker 3: have to have the mindset of an there's no bottom,

30:29 Speaker 3: there's no there's no my wallet will never be empty, right,

30:33 Speaker 3: it has got to be your feeling if you can

30:35 Speaker 3: sign up for a ten thousand dollar hotel room. I mean,

30:37 Speaker 3: that's just mind boggling to me. Ten grand for one

30:41 Speaker 3: night is so insane.

30:43 Speaker 2: Right, I just can't.

30:45 Speaker 3: I couldn't do that. I could not do that and

30:49 Speaker 3: look myself in the mirror. I just couldn't.

30:51 Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't.

30:54 Speaker 3: I could freaking fill a food pantry to the seal.

31:01 Speaker 3: I'm gonna spend ten grand on one night in a hotel?

31:05 Speaker 3: Does this hotel have.

31:06 Speaker 2: The other thing too? About age?

31:09 Speaker 1: You know, because like I said, John brought up you know,

31:11 Speaker 1: they were probably very young when they established these patterns.

31:15 Speaker 1: Is and I said the same thing when we were

31:17 Speaker 1: talking about the I've said this actually while when we

31:21 Speaker 1: talked about the Daryl Hall versus John Oat lawsuit, and

31:24 Speaker 1: also in talking about Don Henley. It's like these guys,

31:29 Speaker 1: these guys in Journey now they're in their seventies. Is

31:32 Speaker 1: this what you want to be doing when you're in

31:34 Speaker 1: your seventies, tied up in all this litigation.

31:37 Speaker 3: The money, like blind with money, I know.

31:40 Speaker 1: But it's like geez, just ah, see them, just do

31:43 Speaker 1: your thing. I mean, these guys like, I mean, you.

31:45 Speaker 3: Took a dollar too much.

31:47 Speaker 2: They're so lucky. They're so fortunate not only to.

31:51 Speaker 3: Not only to have this, but to have their health,

31:53 Speaker 3: to be able to do what they're doing. And they

31:55 Speaker 3: have all this money at their fingertips. They'll never not

31:59 Speaker 3: want for nothing. Right, they don't worry about clothing or

32:01 Speaker 3: food or any of that. They have nothing to worry about.

32:04 Speaker 1: But this is what they're I mean, Journey's canceling shows now,

32:07 Speaker 1: this is what they're gonna this is what they're gonna

32:10 Speaker 1: spend their time on.

32:11 Speaker 3: And this is how they're gonna go out. At this point,

32:12 Speaker 3: it satisfy.

32:14 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it doesn't go out that way. That's what

32:16 Speaker 1: I said about Darryl Hall and John Oates. It's like,

32:18 Speaker 1: oh my god, the biggest selling duo in pop history,

32:23 Speaker 1: all the money they could ever need, all the fame,

32:26 Speaker 1: you know, and again they they've sustained, you know, they've

32:30 Speaker 1: sustained this over so many decades. Yeah, and this is

32:32 Speaker 1: how it ends. This is how it litigation.

32:35 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're not gonna talk at you if we

32:38 Speaker 3: go on stage together, it's opposite sides. You stay on

32:41 Speaker 3: your side, I'll stay on my side. And it's and

32:44 Speaker 3: all of it comes down to the one. It's the

32:46 Speaker 3: ego of money. Yeah, it's all about ego and money.

32:49 Speaker 1: And if you're if you're a twenty something, you know,

32:52 Speaker 1: and you have a conflict with somebody, you know, you

32:55 Speaker 1: kind of take it. And you shouldn't take it for

32:57 Speaker 1: granted because anything can happen, but you kind of take

32:59 Speaker 1: it for granted you had all the time in the world.

33:01 Speaker 1: At some point, someday you'll rectify things, you'll make up,

33:05 Speaker 1: everything will be good, you'll get back together, it'll work out.

33:08 Speaker 1: But you know, when you're in your mid seventies and

33:11 Speaker 1: you're fighting with somebody over a money or over a contract,

33:14 Speaker 1: it's like, you know again, I think if Daryl Hall

33:17 Speaker 1: and John Oates, because I'm such a I grew up

33:19 Speaker 1: such a huge Hall and Oates fan, it's like, and

33:22 Speaker 1: this is how, this is how it's going to end

33:24 Speaker 1: for them, you know. And Daryl hasn't said much about

33:28 Speaker 1: it John lately. John has said in interviews when asked,

33:32 Speaker 1: you know or you and Daryl do you think you

33:33 Speaker 1: and Darrel are going to reconcile at some point?

33:35 Speaker 2: He said, probably not. This is probably it.

33:37 Speaker 1: And it's like, oh, my God, and he you know,

33:40 Speaker 1: and honestly, I mean it's the one silver lining with

33:45 Speaker 1: that is John Oates from what I've seen in the

33:47 Speaker 1: interviews when he's talking about it, you know, I'm sure

33:49 Speaker 1: he carries a sadness about the situation, but he also

33:52 Speaker 1: seems like a little bit of a weight spin lifted

33:54 Speaker 1: off of him. And Daryl probably feels that way too,

33:57 Speaker 1: because Daryl Hall was clearly resentful of having to share.

34:00 Speaker 1: So I'm going to success with John, But I want

34:02 Speaker 1: to go back to.

34:02 Speaker 3: What I said something earlier. It is like people getting divorced. Now,

34:05 Speaker 3: these guys got together, they were in love with each other,

34:08 Speaker 3: they made music together, that's literally together for so long

34:12 Speaker 3: that they start nitpicking at each other. Little things start

34:14 Speaker 3: annoying each other, and they stay together too long and

34:17 Speaker 3: they end up presenting each other.

34:19 Speaker 2: Yes, well that's literally what Daryl. Daryl said, he referred

34:23 Speaker 2: to it as a global divorce.

34:25 Speaker 3: It is, and a lot of reason. It's so sad.

34:28 Speaker 3: It's so sad. I'm sad for that.

34:32 Speaker 1: Well, we only have a little bit of time left

34:34 Speaker 1: in the hour. But moving on from journey just for

34:37 Speaker 1: a moment, because this is somewhat excuse me. This is

34:40 Speaker 1: somewhat related. I apologize I didn't get to the button

34:42 Speaker 1: in time before I coughed. I'm not sick, just my

34:44 Speaker 1: allergies continue to This has been a bad summer for

34:47 Speaker 1: allergies for me.

34:48 Speaker 2: Yeah. But you know this year we talk about people.

34:55 Speaker 1: They get used to spending the money and they you

34:57 Speaker 1: see this a lot in hip hop. They you know,

34:59 Speaker 1: the autom eventually falls out. Also from Billboard dot com,

35:03 Speaker 1: Damon Dash is Rockefella, which is a very famous record

35:07 Speaker 1: label in hip hop. Rockefeller shares will be auctioned to

35:11 Speaker 1: pay legal judgments. This is from Billboard dot com and

35:16 Speaker 1: I haven't followed this particular story, but it says Damon

35:19 Speaker 1: Dash is one third stake in Jay Z's Rockefeller Records

35:24 Speaker 1: is going up for auction later this month, but a

35:27 Speaker 1: source tells Billboard that the shows might come with some

35:30 Speaker 1: the shares rather might come with some key limitations. According

35:33 Speaker 1: to federal court filings, this week, the US Marshall Service

35:36 Speaker 1: will auction off Damon Dash's thirty three and a third

35:40 Speaker 1: interest in the storied record company to satisfy an eight

35:44 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty three thousand dollars judgment against him in

35:47 Speaker 1: a lawsuit filed by movie producer Josh Weber over a

35:51 Speaker 1: failed film partnership. The auction is set for August twenty

35:54 Speaker 1: nine at a midtown Manhattan hotel. We'll have a minimum

35:58 Speaker 1: bit of one point two million dollars. I don't want

36:01 Speaker 1: to get in all the math of it, but skipping

36:05 Speaker 1: down just quickly. The sale will be for Dash's Steak

36:07 Speaker 1: and Rockefeller, Inc, An entity whose primary assets are the

36:12 Speaker 1: rights to Jay Z's iconic debut album Reasonable Doubt. According

36:17 Speaker 1: to an April article by Rolling Stone, the rest of

36:19 Speaker 1: the catalog of music released by Rockefella, which is dissolved

36:23 Speaker 1: as an operational label in twenty thirteen, is owned by

36:26 Speaker 1: other entities and is not involved the owner of the

36:29 Speaker 1: other two thirds of Rockefeller Label. Co founders Jay Z

36:33 Speaker 1: and Kareem Biggs Burke, have already attempted to stop the auction,

36:38 Speaker 1: including making changes to the company's bylaws and interviewing in

36:42 Speaker 1: the lawsuit. I'm sorry intervening rather in the lawsuit, but

36:45 Speaker 1: a federal judge rejected such opposition in February, and we

36:50 Speaker 1: won't go through it. This is a long involved article.

36:52 Speaker 1: Maybe we'll revisit this in the future, but I do

36:55 Speaker 1: have to wonder if some of the attorneys involved in

36:58 Speaker 1: this are you know, do they hire law firms that

37:01 Speaker 1: have also been used by the members of Journey in

37:04 Speaker 1: their uh legal misadventures with each other.

37:09 Speaker 2: It just goes on and on.