Matt Connarton Unleashed: Journey legal drama continues

0:00 Speaker 1: This drama in the music industry, and Journey has proven to be I'm fascinated by something if you haven't followed it, Journey. Of course, these bandmates in Journey.

0:12 Speaker 2: You know, you can't.

0:12 Speaker 1: Blame Steve Perry really for all these years of not wanting to go back. I can understand why the title of it, yeah that while Billboard has a new article up, don't stop Litigating, do stop Journey bandmates are battling in court yet again. What has always fascinated me about bands that don't get along and they have all this acrimony and even in some instances, you know, suing each other while they're in a band together. I've always been fascinated by the dynamics of that and how weird it must be to be in a band and have issues with other band members to the point where you're suing each other and yet still be able to go on stage and play with them.

0:56 Speaker 2: That's always fascinating to me.

0:59 Speaker 3: It's an odd dynamic because how do you do that and not bash each other with the guitars or something.

1:05 Speaker 2: Well, and and you know there have been instances, I mean, geez.

1:07 Speaker 1: You can find YouTube compilations of of of bands getting into fights on stage, and.

1:13 Speaker 3: Like, what, what's a good one? I can't think of somebody getting into a fight.

1:19 Speaker 1: On Marilyn Manson. And there's a YouTube video of him kicking John five. This is from quite a few years ago, and they're good now, but.

1:27 Speaker 3: On stage he kicked him.

1:28 Speaker 1: He kicked John five. No, no, but but kicked him. And then you see John Five like throw down his guitar and he's gonna fight him, and.

1:38 Speaker 3: Oh geez, yeah they really had.

1:40 Speaker 1: That's that's one example. There's of course, a famous I need to go on.

1:45 Speaker 3: And exploratory now. I want to see these videos.

1:47 Speaker 1: There's a famous example of and there's no video of this, there's only audio, and I think the audio it's hard to hear. But there's a famous example of the Eagles where they almost came to well, they were threttening each other, like Don Felder and Glenn Fry kept threatening that you know after the set, you know we're gonna fight between songs, you know, sniping at each other that kind of thing.

2:12 Speaker 3: So but this this is I mean, I feel like this good reason on this one.

2:17 Speaker 1: Well, but what's always interested me about this is and I remember when I first became sort of fascinated by that dynamic. And it was before I even started playing in bands myself. And you know, when you play in a band, you know sometimes you have conflict. And although rarely most most of the bands I played in were pretty free of inter band drama. But when I was like, and my dad, you know, he listens to the show, he might remember this. When I was a kid, I watched a documentary with my dad and I don't remember if it was a documentary specifically about Brian Brian Adams, No from the Beach Boys, Brian Wilson.

2:52 Speaker 1: I don't remember if it was specifically about Brian Wilson or if it was a broader documentary about the Beach Boys. But there was a point, and it was really when they were kind of at the height of their their fame where they were touring and the group and obviously the Beach Boys, there's a bunch of members. They had kind of split into two factions and because they weren't getting along, like there was the Brian Wilson faction and the Mike Love faction.

3:20 Speaker 3: Didn't even know that and.

3:21 Speaker 1: They would actually enter the stage when it was time to play. They would enter the stage both factions from opposite sides of the stage, so that they because they tried to keep apart, almost like two rival gangs. So they would keep apart, you know, before and after the shows, but they would actually enter from opposite sides. And then of course they wouldn't interact at all except for playing these songs together.

3:43 Speaker 3: But I mean, just that's gonna be so bizarre to stand on a stage playing music. You would think, so you're together, but you're not. Well, how does that work? Did they just because they're not going to play their guitars and lean into each other?

3:54 Speaker 2: Right?

3:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, none of the like did they have like you know, you stay away one hundred feet from me on the stage, don't cross this line. They're gonna take a piece of tape and like put it down the middle. This is my side.

4:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so weird.

4:06 Speaker 1: And but I also wonder too about practical things like how do you even write a set.

4:11 Speaker 2: List if if you can't even speak to each other, you know what I mean? An intermediary or there's probably one person who who.

4:19 Speaker 3: Is in charge with the legal pad of paper and he's going back and forth. We want to play these songs. Okay, I'll go to the other faction. Can you agree to these songs in this order? No, we need to move this and this and they go back. That's gotta be.

4:31 Speaker 2: Oh boy, Yeah, it's got to be very because we.

4:33 Speaker 3: Have like lawyers negotiating everything and have like documents on how what how the set is gonna run and how much time each one's gonna get. That's terrible and this is sad. It's like all these bands from when we were younger are like suing each other, you know what I mean, Like Darryl holl and John Oh, it's that's lawsuits and Journey's got lawsuits and like everybody's against you. But the weird and.

5:01 Speaker 1: W but the weird thing with Journey is some of this litigation that's been going on between Jonathan Kane and Neil Sean has been going on for years. Like they've been out on tours while there was active litigation between them, you know. So that's like, you know, that's a step further than just not getting along or not really speaking to each other much.

5:22 Speaker 3: But they have their they have themselves set up as a company with directors.

5:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, which which is which Steve Perry is still a part of.

5:30 Speaker 1: By the way, Oh, and then there was that weird thing a few years ago where and this for this thing, I think Jonathan Kane and Neil Sean were on the same side where Ross Valerie and the other guy's name I can't remember now, Steve something. They actually they actually tried to take over the company. They tried to do some weird legal maneuvering where they were going to take over ownership of the company, the Control's Journey. Yeah, and they ended up And that's why they ended up getting kicked out of the band was because they tried to take over.

6:04 Speaker 1: And I think Steve Ferry even got involved. Again, he's not in the band, hasn't been for decades now for them now, Arnelle Paneda.

6:12 Speaker 2: He's been in the band for a long time. Yeah, he's been in the band a long time now.

6:17 Speaker 3: But okay, so let's get into some meat. Shoan Is was sued by Cain because he said Caine says, you unfairly blocked me from the company's American Express account. But Shona is saying, yeah, but I did that because you're using it, you're misusing it, and you're using money to pay for like you in your wife's hotel room. So this. It's always the money. It's always the money. It's always the money. But Caine is claiming that Shan has spent up to ten thousand dollars per night for hotel rooms during their most tour.

7:01 Speaker 3: Ten thousand dollars a night. Where are you staying? Where in the heck.

7:06 Speaker 2: Are you staying this journey? They're famous?

7:08 Speaker 3: Oh my god, like you could. You could rent a home for somebody for a year for one night stay in this hotel. It's insane. Who spends Why why do you spend ten grand on a hotel room? Why you're gonna you're barely gonna be in it.

7:24 Speaker 1: I mean, if it was somebody like Motley Crue, you know back in the day, you would you would figure, well, they probably wreck everything, and they did.

7:29 Speaker 3: That's why they needed ten thousand for a night though, because they had to replace hoteur.

7:34 Speaker 1: But I don't think Jonathan Kane is throwing a couch out a window.

7:37 Speaker 3: Sounds like he's being exorbitant in a spending Yeah, you know, so Cain has shown each control exactly fifty percent of the company. Yeah, so which is you've got You've got heads just solid into each other.

7:53 Speaker 1: Which is not the same as ownership. We should we should clarify.

7:55 Speaker 3: That control versus ownership is different.

7:57 Speaker 1: Right right, Because, like I said, Steve Perry still own I don't know the guys who are cast out of the band, I don't know if they still own part of the company as well. Like I said, they tried to take control of it and it got them fired from the band. But that doesn't mean they don't still own stakes in the company. But yes, Neil Sean and Jonathan Kane, and by the way, for it.

8:16 Speaker 3: Give me any number of people with steaks in the company. I mean, yeah, it's not even limited to the band members themselves.

8:22 Speaker 1: And for those who don't know, Neil Sean of course is a guitar player, and Jonathan Kane is the keyboard player who occasionally plays guitar on some songs that don't have keyboard, like a Stone in Love for example.

8:34 Speaker 3: It's like they're going head to head. So another one of the issues that these guys are doing is one of them will fire somebody and then maybe a few hours or days later, the other one will rehire the same person that got fired. Yeah, so you got one, director goes, I can't stand you get out and then like two days later, the other one goes, come back, come back.

8:54 Speaker 2: Well, here's what this is.

8:55 Speaker 3: It's like it's it's like tip for tat, I'm gonna get you.

9:00 Speaker 2: This is you know, Yeah, it's not It's no way to run a business.

9:03 Speaker 3: No, this is terrible. I mean and I can't even imagine me. Can you imagine being an employee if one you get to worry, if one director doesn't like you, they might toss you. You get a stay in somebody's good side to stay in the company.

9:17 Speaker 1: Well, this is from Billboard dot com. It says a never any legal battle between Journey members Jonathan Kan and Neil Sean erupted again this week, with Kane filing a new lawsuit against Sean overclaims that is exorbitant spending is threatening to cripple the band's touring operations, and a complaint made public and Delaware Court on Tuesday, July thirtieth. Kane claimed that Shawn's alleged spending, including unilaterally chartering private jets and charging personal expenses to their shared American Express card, has led to a deadlock that must be resolved.

9:48 Speaker 1: Kine's lawyers right quote. The deadlock between the company's directors, is now interfering with the company's ability to take even the most basic actions, and is causing significant disruptions in the smooth operation of the company. The problems posed a severe threat of harm to the company and to Journey's storied history of musical greatness.

10:10 Speaker 2: Unquote.

10:11 Speaker 1: Legal battles are nothing new for Sean and Kin, the two remaining members of an iconic rock band that still is printing money money decades after its Don't Stop Believe in Heyday. Back in twenty twenty two, Sean sued Caine over allegations that his bandmate had unfairly blocked his access to the American Express account, interfering with the band's activities and delaying payments to crew members and vendors. A few months later, Caine sued him back, claiming he had placed those restrictions on the MX to stop Sean from misusing the company card, including spending four hundred thousand dollars in a single month.

10:45 Speaker 1: So they both accuse each other of overspending.

10:50 Speaker 1: The new case, filed in Delawarre's Clansery Court, largely rehashes those same disagreements over spending, like Caine claiming that Sean has quote spent up to ten thousand dollars per night for hotel rooms for him and his wife unquote during their most recent tour. But in technical terms, the new case focuses narrowly on the governance of Freedom twenty twenty, Inc. A Delaware based corporate entity that's that they created to operate Journeys touring. Since Cain and Sean each control exactly fifty percent of the company, the lawsuit says the two have reached an impasse that is spilled into other aspects of the band's operations, like managing their staffers.

11:37 Speaker 1: By the way, the reason this company exists to begin with this Freedom twenty twenty Inc. Is because apparently a number of years ago, this if I'm remembering this correctly, this is what I've read, because I've tried to follow all the journey drama as much as possible, and I am a fan, you know.

11:55 Speaker 1: But a number of years ago, Neil shown and his wife started looking into They started looking more closely at journeys of financial operations as a band from a business standpoint, because they had a manager and they felt like the manager. Not that I don't think this was a case of the manager. You know, you hear about this a lot in the music industry. You know, a manager stealing or or somebody's ripping off the band, or you know, or a band suing their record label because they feel like their record label is stealing from them.

12:30 Speaker 2: There's a lot of horror stories.

12:33 Speaker 1: But this was a case of they just they started to when they looked into things. Neil Sewan and his wife felt like Journey was getting a raw deal.

12:42 Speaker 2: You know, they were playing.

12:42 Speaker 1: These venues and but they didn't seem to be making that much money, and they didn't understand where the money was going, what was happening to their profits and whatnot. So they I think they just basically fired their entire management team at the time and said, we're going to run everything ourselves. Other artists have tried to do that. It's hard to do at that level.

13:03 Speaker 2: Years ago.

13:04 Speaker 1: I saw a documentary about back in the nineties when Duran Duran tried to do it.

13:10 Speaker 2: They actually tried to.

13:12 Speaker 1: They fired their their management team and said, We're just going to do everything ourselves.

13:15 Speaker 2: We can do everything ourselves. Why are we paying out all this money?

13:19 Speaker 3: And oh yeah, they did that.

13:21 Speaker 2: They well they did.

13:22 Speaker 1: You might not have known, because unless you happen to see this particular documentary, because it didn't last long. They did it, they tried it, and they said, oh my god, we are in so far over our heads. We cannot run this band this way. So then they undid, you know, they hired a new management team and everything, and they said never again. Kiss during the eighties for a long period of time, they didn't have a manager per se. They had their the accounting firm they were working with, Glickman Marx was kind of their kind of their managers, and that they they you know, we kind of ran the business of Kiss.

14:02 Speaker 1: But Kiss was essentially self managed

14:07 Speaker 1: actually at a couple of points during their career, and they managed to pull it off.

14:13 Speaker 3: Jean's are real business minded guy though, like.

14:15 Speaker 1: Well, and so is Paul Stanley and they yeah, and they they managed they got away.

14:21 Speaker 3: They've always treated it like a business. Yes, that's a big and they also don't have as much I mean, yeah, there was some alcohol, but they didn't have like that as a as a bigger issue, right, Yeah, whereas other bands of that era, it was all of the band was doing that, right. These guys kept their heads on straight.

14:41 Speaker 2: The whole time.

14:42 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and we're always treating it like a business.

14:45 Speaker 1: Right yeah, like all this stuff with Journey, you cannot imagine this happening and kiss, anything like this would would never happen in Kiss. So again, this is from Billboard dot com. In technical terms, the new case focus is narrowly.

15:04 Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry, I read that part already. Let me go down here. So Cain's lawyer, this is what Jonathan Kaine's lawyers say in the lawsuit. Quote, Petitioner and respondent are deadlocked with regard to issues concerning the hiring and firing of company employees and band crew members. It is common that one director will terminate an employee or crew member, and hours or days later, the other director will rehire that same individual.

15:33 Speaker 2: Unquote.

15:34 Speaker 1: As you mentioned earlier, the lawsuit claims the strife between Cain and Shawn has also led to other problems, including disagreements about whether to accept an advance from AEG for their most recent tour, the purchase of cancelation insurance, and other problems. Cain's lawyer's right quote. The deadlock between petitioner and respondent has created a toxic internal environment. Rather than focusing on the band's performances during a major international tour. The band's members and crew now find themselves caught in the middle of the director's disputes, afraid of performing their job responsibilities, and pressured to align with one director or another unquote that's.

16:13 Speaker 3: Horrible work environment. Oh yeah, the music can't imagine.

16:18 Speaker 2: The music industry is hard enough without all this.

16:20 Speaker 3: Talk about hiding from your bosses.

16:22 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, get in the bathroom they're coming, well, or hiding from one of them, exactly.

16:27 Speaker 3: From both of them. I feel like I just don't want to be in the middle of any of this.

16:31 Speaker 2: I think in this stay in this situation.

16:33 Speaker 1: Probably some of them they hide from whichever one fired them and try and try to stay close to whichever one.

16:39 Speaker 3: Really doesn't see me. You won't know I got.

16:42 Speaker 1: Brought back, Yeah, exactly, it says here. As a solution, Ken is asking the court to appoint a neutral third director of the company who will be able to issue the tie breaking vote during disputes over key issues.

16:54 Speaker 3: Well, what they're like divorced parents fighting over their children.

16:57 Speaker 2: Well, what they need is a manager. See it sounds like they don't have a.

17:01 Speaker 3: Third person to be Well, they're supposed to have a third person, but it doesn't really go into the much.

17:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, well it sounds like.

17:07 Speaker 3: Oh the ohh whoats because I jumped ahead.

17:10 Speaker 1: It sounds like they don't have a manager either, right, so they're they're just they're running everything themselves. I think there's managers to a point, well, because part of what a manager of a band does is say, you know, like if there's a dispute like this, the manager says, look, we're going to do this.

17:25 Speaker 2: You know, you guys hired me to run this band. Here's what we're gonna do.

17:28 Speaker 3: Kin is asking the court to appoint a third director who could be a neutral director that could issue a tie breaking vote on all of these issues. Because you just it's divorced. It's like divorced parents fighting over the kids in the house.

17:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's.

17:45 Speaker 3: You get these two equal in ownership, I mean equal indecision making right fifty to fifty directors and they don't agree. And they not only do they not agree, they set out to go against the other one. Oh you fired so, and so I'm gonna bring them back.

18:00 Speaker 2: Yeah.

18:01 Speaker 3: So this is yeah, they're it's it's it's sad. It's sad to see all this happening. But I mean, you look at some of the stuff he's reporting. Kane is claiming he put the restrictions on the card because he's the other guy. Sorry, Sean spent four hundred thousand dollars on the American Express card in one month. One month. I think I could live off of that much money for the rest of my life and he spent that one month.

18:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's crazy.

18:40 Speaker 3: And American Express is the one that you got to pay off everything the next month. You can't carry a balance on that sucker. So one dude does four hundred thousand, and everybody else is even just using it reasonably like they're supposed to. That's a heck of a month filled the way. Jeez, gonna buy a house, buy a couple.

18:58 Speaker 2: Of houses, Yeah, you can do a whole lot.

19:01 Speaker 1: That's crazy, says In a statement to Billboard, Kaine's attorney said Liebisman. Leibsman stressed that his client was not seeking damages and only wanted to resolve the impasse.

19:11 Speaker 2: Quote.

19:11 Speaker 1: It is expected that the third director will provide resolution to the issues between John and Neil. It is John's intent for Journey to continue providing great live music throughout the current tour. Unquote, an attorney who was who has represented Sean in his previous litigation with Kin, did not return a request for comment. Okay, And then it gets to what I was talking about earlier. It says here even before Sean and Kin came to blows, members of Journey had been sparring in court for years. Back in twenty twenty, the two men teamed up to file a lawsuit against former drummer Steve Smith Steven Smith that's rights, I couldn't remember his last name, and former bassist Ross Valerie over the band's name, and in twenty twenty two, former lead singer Steve Perry took legal action to help Sean and Kane from registering Oh I'm sorry to stop, Rather not to help, but to stop Sean and Kane from registering federal trademarks on the names of many of the band's biggest hits.

20:07 Speaker 3: Yeah.

20:07 Speaker 2: I remember that.

20:08 Speaker 1: That was interesting too, Yeah, because part of what when Neil Shawn and his wife started looking into things, part of what they realized was that you know, somebody could, for example, make a T shirt that says don't stop believing on it, and you know, well, why aren't we making that money when people here don't stop believing they think of our song, you know, we should register these trademarks. And and you know, Steve Perry's going, wait a minute, I wrote those lyrics. Why do you get to trademark that?

20:42 Speaker 2: You know? So he actually helped prevent them from doing that.

20:45 Speaker 3: Why wasn't it done under the company? Like it makes I get what they're.

20:51 Speaker 1: Saying, Well, it probably was, but but Steve Perry said, nope, you're not doing that.

20:56 Speaker 3: Well, I don't blame him, You blame like you said, he still has ownership. Yeah, he may not be in the decision room, which it sounds like it's not a fun place to be anyway, Right, I wouldn't blame them one bit. Yeah, it's awful how these bands have devolved into this, you know what I'm saying, Like, Yeah, I mean when I can think back when I was a kid and they look so fun and happy, Like what happened to you? Guys? You're fun and happy? Now they're sueing each other. Although I can't blame them all right, I'm sorry.

21:30 Speaker 3: If we had a business and all of a sudden, you're looking at a four hundred thousand dollars bill on one of your charge cards by one person in the business, I'd lose my mind. Yeah, I can't even imagine seeing a bill like that and not losing your mind. And what is the other guy thinking? Is he going like I deserve this? So I'm just gonna keep pulling this card out like I deserve this. I mean, you got to tell yourself something to talk yourself into making it to rent a ten thousand dollars.

22:03 Speaker 2: I disagree.

22:04 Speaker 1: I don't think you have to talk yourself into anything at that point when you're that rich and you're that famous. I think something happens psychologically where no, I don't think they. I think that's the problem. They don't have to talk themselves into anything. And a lot of famous people, people who've been very wealthy, who then they go through a thing where they have it and then they lose it all they talk about this how at the height of their fame and wealth, they just kind of assume they get into this mindset where they just assume it's going to be that way forever.

22:35 Speaker 1: They're going to be super famous forever, the money's going to be coming in forever, so they can spend as much as they want to and never have to worry about it, and it just becomes a thing. And in Journeys case, not that I'm justifying it, but you can almost see where because he Journey, you have a band that was at their peak in the eighties but has actually still managed to I mean, you know, haven't had a hit song in decades, but they still love the classics, and they still do so much business touring.

23:09 Speaker 1: They can still tour arenas and and still make so much money. And that's really where the money is anyway, That and merchandising and and so in their case, the money actually has never stopped coming.

23:22 Speaker 3: So but this is a grotesque greed that's involved in that. I'm sorry because I mean, I can't I if I had all of this, I won the lottery, I have money now. I still I wouldn't want to go buy a ginormous frickin' mansion that costs a fortune to run and takes incredible amounts of work to clean. I'd want a nice, little small place that has a little garden, makes me happy and money in the bank to sustain me for the rest of my days. I just I always I'm always in It's always mind boggling when you look at some of these people and it's like, why did you buy that ginormous house for two people?

24:01 Speaker 3: How does that work? Why is that worth it? Why is it worth it to have a five hundred dollars electric bill? And you know, I imagine a three hundred dollars gas bill. I mean, I can't imagine how much it costs just to run the house itself. Now, how much work does it take to upkeep it, clean it, to paint, to fix it. I mean I watch my dad upkeep his house, and he's meticulous. This house is gorgeous, but he works his bum off all the time, every week, every year, every month to keep that house looking that way.

24:33 Speaker 3: It takes work to keep it that way. It doesn't just magically stay that way. These guys get this money and they buy these monstrosities of homes. And I've got ten cars. Why you can only drive one at a time. Why why is it that when you get some money in your hands, all of a sudden, there's this grotesque greed and you forget all of the decency that you used to be, or the decent things you used to say, or the things you used to Oh gee, I wish I could do this? Or do you wish I could help that one? But then the minute the money gets into the hand, it's like you forget all of that, right, But these yeah, something happens.

25:10 Speaker 3: I think you're right, something happens to these people's brains that they think, well, since I always have this, I should I must own a four million dollar ginormous home that I only live in two rooms of, because really, you can't enjoy a house that. How do you enjoy a house that being a one person?

25:30 Speaker 1: I come on, I think it's probably for people it's just all about status. It's ego showing off an ego. And I know everyone says this, but I really do think it's It's true in my case and in yours too. But yeah, if I if I had that kind of money, that's not where I would put it because I'm something of a minimalist, like I don't want Like, there's nothing about the idea of living in a mansion with rooms I don't even use, just to have it. There's nothing about that that appeals to me. No, theres nothing about it that appeals to me.

26:07 Speaker 3: Of course, my brain goes to, you know, it's how much upkeep that is. But yeah, but plus I like small and cozy.

26:13 Speaker 2: But I think I think most people though it is.

26:16 Speaker 1: It is strange, and it's something I've noticed from what I realized this from a pretty young age.

26:20 Speaker 2: Most people, if you talk to them about about what it would be like to be rich, they do.

26:26 Speaker 1: They will tell you, oh, yeah, I'd have ten cars and a mansion, and it's like, really, you wouldn't, You wouldn't that's what you would do. Like I do think there's something in the human condition where most people I think we're the odd ones.

26:41 Speaker 2: I think I think most people, yeah, that's what they think about.

26:44 Speaker 3: And it's like, why, but I only need to drive one car at a time. I could take two cars and be quite content and take the other eight cars and go feed like an entire freaking school system. There's so much you could do with that crazy amount of money. Yeah, you know what I mean that I can't. It's like people who spend thousands of dollars on these red bottom shoes. I can't understand it to me because to spend thousands of dollars on a pair of shoes, to me sounds like grotesque greed. Like I don't need a decent pair of shoes doesn't cost that much because I grew up though, I grew up with a dad that taught me the value of a dollar, you know, So you know, you didn't take anything for granted.

27:26 Speaker 3: If you got a pair. When I got to go to the shoes store and I got to come home with two or three pairs of shoes, that was a big deal. To get two pairs or to get three pairs, that was a big deal. That was that was money. And for us, you know, it's not a pair of shoes, but ooh, I got your dress shoes and sneakers like that was a big deal. To be able to do that. I can't imagine. I don't know. I guess yeah, maybe we are the odd balls out. It's just it takes very little to make me happy. And I can't imagine wasting so much money when there's so much in the world that you could do to make I make.

27:59 Speaker 3: How many lives did you save with one car?

28:03 Speaker 2: Hill?

28:04 Speaker 4: Hello?

28:05 Speaker 2: Hello?

28:07 Speaker 4: Is this the mass?

28:09 Speaker 1: Oh?

28:09 Speaker 2: My goodness is this John C.

28:11 Speaker 3: Hopwood?

28:13 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm listening to your conversation. Uh, I don't know how old was Journey when they made it big? How what was the average age.

28:24 Speaker 3: They were pretty young, weren't they.

28:26 Speaker 2: Yeah, they had to be pretty young.

28:27 Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess and say I'm gonna guess in say twenty five.

28:32 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's a big difference, though. Richard Burretton always said there's a big difference becoming really famous when you're very young, like Elizabeth Taylor and Marion and Brando where it was almost forty when he became famous and rich. You know, you're immature, right, and so you buy your toys. But with the Beatles, who were you know, very young when they got rich. Both think houses and everything were tacked right off. So I just thought I brought that. Bring that great? Shall miss you?

29:03 Speaker 2: Take care all right, Thanks for the call time. I appreciate it, bub Bye.

29:07 Speaker 3: It was nice.

29:07 Speaker 2: We haven't heard from John and Alote.

29:08 Speaker 1: I know, yeah, is he on the other side of the world now, I'm not sure. He sounded like he was on a train or something. It's very loud. No, it was nice to hear from him though. Yeah, uh, I wonder you know, to John's point about how they were very young.

29:24 Speaker 3: Well, that has an aspect of course, because when I was younger, I was very stupid now that I look back on myself.

29:29 Speaker 1: And I wonder, I wonder John's observation. I wonder if that that's gotta be thinking, Is that part of the problem if you become if you do become so successful so young, and you have all that money, you establish a pattern. You know, I was an atherrapist. We talk a lot about patterns. You establish a pattern of spending recklessly and foolishly and not practically and uh, and so whereas as John said, like Richard Burton, who you know, didn't become wealthy until he was in its forties, if you become wealthy at an older age, you're you're going to be more practical and maybe and maybe not be so foolish as to just assume this gravy train's gonna go forever.

30:11 Speaker 1: And again, in the case of Journey, it actually has gone forever. But but uh, but a little more practical with your money.

30:19 Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I think that's an interesting point.

30:21 Speaker 3: It is like the I mean, to spend money the way that that was being spent, it has to you have to have the mindset of an there's no bottom, there's no there's no my wallet will never be empty, right, it has got to be your feeling if you can sign up for a ten thousand dollar hotel room. I mean, that's just mind boggling to me. Ten grand for one night is so insane.

30:43 Speaker 2: Right, I just can't.

30:45 Speaker 3: I couldn't do that. I could not do that and look myself in the mirror. I just couldn't.

30:51 Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't.

30:54 Speaker 3: I could freaking fill a food pantry to the seal. I'm gonna spend ten grand on one night in a hotel? Does this hotel have.

31:06 Speaker 2: The other thing too? About age?

31:09 Speaker 1: You know, because like I said, John brought up you know, they were probably very young when they established these patterns. Is and I said the same thing when we were talking about the I've said this actually while when we talked about the Daryl Hall versus John Oat lawsuit, and also in talking about Don Henley. It's like these guys, these guys in Journey now they're in their seventies. Is this what you want to be doing when you're in your seventies, tied up in all this litigation.

31:37 Speaker 3: The money, like blind with money, I know.

31:40 Speaker 1: But it's like geez, just ah, see them, just do your thing. I mean, these guys like, I mean, you.

31:45 Speaker 3: Took a dollar too much.

31:47 Speaker 2: They're so lucky. They're so fortunate not only to.

31:51 Speaker 3: Not only to have this, but to have their health, to be able to do what they're doing. And they have all this money at their fingertips. They'll never not want for nothing. Right, they don't worry about clothing or food or any of that. They have nothing to worry about.

32:04 Speaker 1: But this is what they're I mean, Journey's canceling shows now, this is what they're gonna this is what they're gonna spend their time on.

32:11 Speaker 3: And this is how they're gonna go out. At this point, it satisfy.

32:14 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it doesn't go out that way. That's what I said about Darryl Hall and John Oates. It's like, oh my god, the biggest selling duo in pop history, all the money they could ever need, all the fame, you know, and again they they've sustained, you know, they've sustained this over so many decades. Yeah, and this is how it ends. This is how it litigation.

32:35 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're not gonna talk at you if we go on stage together, it's opposite sides. You stay on your side, I'll stay on my side. And it's and all of it comes down to the one. It's the ego of money. Yeah, it's all about ego and money.

32:49 Speaker 1: And if you're if you're a twenty something, you know, and you have a conflict with somebody, you know, you kind of take it. And you shouldn't take it for granted because anything can happen, but you kind of take it for granted you had all the time in the world. At some point, someday you'll rectify things, you'll make up, everything will be good, you'll get back together, it'll work out. But you know, when you're in your mid seventies and you're fighting with somebody over a money or over a contract, it's like, you know again, I think if Daryl Hall and John Oates, because I'm such a I grew up such a huge Hall and Oates fan, it's like, and this is how, this is how it's going to end for them, you know.

33:26 Speaker 1: And Daryl hasn't said much about it John lately. John has said in interviews when asked, you know or you and Daryl do you think you and Darrel are going to reconcile at some point?

33:35 Speaker 2: He said, probably not. This is probably it.

33:37 Speaker 1: And it's like, oh, my God, and he you know, and honestly, I mean it's the one silver lining with that is John Oates from what I've seen in the interviews when he's talking about it, you know, I'm sure he carries a sadness about the situation, but he also seems like a little bit of a weight spin lifted off of him. And Daryl probably feels that way too, because Daryl Hall was clearly resentful of having to share. So I'm going to success with John, But I want to go back to.

34:02 Speaker 3: What I said something earlier. It is like people getting divorced. Now, these guys got together, they were in love with each other, they made music together, that's literally together for so long that they start nitpicking at each other. Little things start annoying each other, and they stay together too long and they end up presenting each other.

34:19 Speaker 2: Yes, well that's literally what Daryl. Daryl said, he referred to it as a global divorce.

34:25 Speaker 3: It is, and a lot of reason. It's so sad. It's so sad. I'm sad for that.

34:32 Speaker 1: Well, we only have a little bit of time left in the hour. But moving on from journey just for a moment, because this is somewhat excuse me. This is somewhat related. I apologize I didn't get to the button in time before I coughed. I'm not sick, just my allergies continue to This has been a bad summer for allergies for me.

34:48 Speaker 2: Yeah. But you know this year we talk about people.

34:55 Speaker 1: They get used to spending the money and they you see this a lot in hip hop. They you know, the autom eventually falls out. Also from Billboard dot com, Damon Dash is Rockefella, which is a very famous record label in hip hop. Rockefeller shares will be auctioned to pay legal judgments. This is from Billboard dot com and I haven't followed this particular story, but it says Damon Dash is one third stake in Jay Z's Rockefeller Records is going up for auction later this month, but a source tells Billboard that the shows might come with some the shares rather might come with some key limitations.

35:33 Speaker 1: According to federal court filings, this week, the US Marshall Service will auction off Damon Dash's thirty three and a third interest in the storied record company to satisfy an eight hundred and twenty three thousand dollars judgment against him in a lawsuit filed by movie producer Josh Weber over a failed film partnership. The auction is set for August twenty nine at a midtown Manhattan hotel. We'll have a minimum bit of one point two million dollars. I don't want to get in all the math of it, but skipping down just quickly.

36:06 Speaker 1: The sale will be for Dash's Steak and Rockefeller, Inc, An entity whose primary assets are the rights to Jay Z's iconic debut album Reasonable Doubt. According to an April article by Rolling Stone, the rest of the catalog of music released by Rockefella, which is dissolved as an operational label in twenty thirteen, is owned by other entities and is not involved the owner of the other two thirds of Rockefeller Label. Co founders Jay Z and Kareem Biggs Burke, have already attempted to stop the auction, including making changes to the company's bylaws and interviewing in the lawsuit.

36:42 Speaker 1: I'm sorry intervening rather in the lawsuit, but a federal judge rejected such opposition in February, and we won't go through it. This is a long involved article. Maybe we'll revisit this in the future, but I do have to wonder if some of the attorneys involved in this are you know, do they hire law firms that have also been used by the members of Journey in their uh legal misadventures with each other.

37:09 Speaker 2: It just goes on and on.