Dotsun Moon | Matt Connarton Unleashed

0:00 Speaker 1: Oh, I like that a lot. That is Moments in

0:01 Speaker 1: the Sun. The project is Dots in Moon and we

0:05 Speaker 1: have Richard from Dots and Moon on the line with

0:06 Speaker 1: us via WhatsApp. Hello, are you there?

0:09 Speaker 2: Yes, I'm here. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

0:12 Speaker 1: Absolutely, No, I'm glad you can join us today. I

0:14 Speaker 1: really like what you're doing. The songs they've got, I mean,

0:18 Speaker 1: obviously they you know, they sound different, but a lot

0:22 Speaker 1: of these have a kind of a dreamy, sort of

0:24 Speaker 1: atmospheric kind of vibe. I really like. I really like

0:28 Speaker 1: these a lot nice to hear. Absolutely absolutely. And you're

0:32 Speaker 1: in Are you in upstate New York or where where

0:34 Speaker 1: are you?

0:34 Speaker 2: Exactly New York north of Buffalo. Were getting the cliched

0:40 Speaker 2: pummel of snow right now, are you too? Yeah? But

0:44 Speaker 2: you probably you're in New Hampshire, right.

0:47 Speaker 1: We're in New Hampshire. Yeah, yeah, you.

0:48 Speaker 2: Must get a good chunk of snow.

0:50 Speaker 1: We get well, not as much as you might think.

0:53 Speaker 1: The winters I grew up here, and the winters here

0:56 Speaker 1: are considerably easier now overall than they were when I

1:00 Speaker 1: was a kid. So some years we get some years

1:02 Speaker 1: we get a lot of snow. But we don't get

1:04 Speaker 1: we don't get pummeled too badly. Some years we get

1:06 Speaker 1: very little, so it's not it's not too bad. Here

1:09 Speaker 1: we've had a cold snap, but it's it's not too bad.

1:12 Speaker 1: But where you are? So were you because Buffalo, if

1:16 Speaker 1: I remember a number of years ago, had like, uh,

1:19 Speaker 1: I know, Buffalo gets a lot of snow, but didn't

1:22 Speaker 1: that happen.

1:22 Speaker 2: Through the city and then south of the city if

1:24 Speaker 2: you go north, it'll have an inch of snow.

1:28 Speaker 1: Oh, so it's not bad where so you're north of Buffalo.

1:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh good. Normally it's not too bad. Today it's

1:34 Speaker 2: a little it's a little rough.

1:35 Speaker 1: So I remember I remember seeing on the news a

1:37 Speaker 1: few years ago it was like like multiple feet of

1:39 Speaker 1: snow and like it just like snowed for like five

1:41 Speaker 1: days straight.

1:42 Speaker 2: So but well, ever since that blizzard of seventy seven

1:47 Speaker 2: hundred years ago, it's just it's, you know, it's just

1:49 Speaker 2: a news cliche. They always you know, because we're right

1:53 Speaker 2: in the lake. Okay, so on Lake Erie, so it

1:56 Speaker 2: just comes right off the lake and we get slammed.

1:58 Speaker 1: Gotcha, gotcha? Uh, I'd like to know more. Tell us

2:02 Speaker 1: more about dots and moon well, first of all, let

2:04 Speaker 1: me ask you this right off the top. I'm sure

2:05 Speaker 1: you answer this question all the time, but what does

2:08 Speaker 1: where does a name come from? Dots and Moon?

2:12 Speaker 2: I just liked the sound of it, and it's just,

2:16 Speaker 2: you know, brought up certain ideas in my mind. I mean,

2:19 Speaker 2: the sun and the moon are both a dot, you know,

2:21 Speaker 2: and and the sky and it just really, you know,

2:27 Speaker 2: I just I hope it produces an image in someone's mind,

2:30 Speaker 2: you know, of something interesting.

2:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolute.

2:34 Speaker 2: But it wasn't you know, it wasn't the car as

2:37 Speaker 2: most people would think. Okay, you know, it's not D

2:41 Speaker 2: A T, S U N. But I even thought that

2:43 Speaker 2: was kind of cool, the idea of an old dots

2:45 Speaker 2: on full moon.

2:48 Speaker 1: Absolutely. And now the project has changed over the years, correct,

2:52 Speaker 1: because from what I was reading, did it used to

2:54 Speaker 1: be a female fronted collaboration and now it's a solo project?

2:58 Speaker 1: Is that true?

2:59 Speaker 2: Well? Even before for that, it was me and then

3:02 Speaker 2: I had a friend of mine and it was just

3:05 Speaker 2: the two of us and we would play guitar. When

3:08 Speaker 2: we would play out, the two of us played guitar,

3:11 Speaker 2: and then I would have all the sense and all

3:13 Speaker 2: that stuff recorded on a digital recorder, and especially here

3:20 Speaker 2: Western New York. You know, like there were rules, you know,

3:24 Speaker 2: you didn't have pre recorded tracks and all this stuff.

3:26 Speaker 2: But I don't know if you're familiar with carter usm

3:29 Speaker 2: by any chance, a real old band.

3:31 Speaker 1: No, I'm not familiar with them.

3:33 Speaker 2: All right. So they're from England and they came here

3:35 Speaker 2: and they played, and it was two guys with the

3:36 Speaker 2: guitar on their backing tracks. And I said to my

3:38 Speaker 2: and it sounded amazing, and I'm like, you know, I'd

3:41 Speaker 2: rather hear a band with backing tracks. It sounds fantastic

3:43 Speaker 2: than a band with all live members that doesn't sound good.

3:46 Speaker 2: And it's just, you know, it was just easier to

3:49 Speaker 2: put everything together and play. And then I met somebody

3:53 Speaker 2: I was friends with and she's like, you know, I

3:55 Speaker 2: can sing. So I asked her to sing this song

3:58 Speaker 2: called Glory and then head the Warning, and then those

4:01 Speaker 2: two songs. I was like, wow, it sounded fantastic, and

4:06 Speaker 2: we slowly had a band, a five piece band. I

4:09 Speaker 2: had a laptop and say, you know, say the drummer moved,

4:16 Speaker 2: I could then just unmute the drum tracks that I

4:19 Speaker 2: had made or had recorded from the drummer, and that

4:23 Speaker 2: allowed the band to play out a lot more. I

4:25 Speaker 2: played everything from you know, me and a singer to

4:30 Speaker 2: me and four other bandmates with you know, no backing tracks.

4:34 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, that must have been. That must have been

4:38 Speaker 1: kind of exciting, right to have that sort of flexibility

4:40 Speaker 1: with it where you could work with that. I'm always

4:44 Speaker 1: fascinated by that kind of dynamic because you know, obviously

4:47 Speaker 1: we interview a lot of musicians on the show, and

4:49 Speaker 1: I've i myself. I'm a musician, and I've played in

4:51 Speaker 1: a bunch of bands, but I was never I never

4:53 Speaker 1: played in a band where you could just where you

4:55 Speaker 1: had that kind of flexibility, you know, where you could

4:58 Speaker 1: play in multiple different configurations over the course of shows

5:03 Speaker 1: and and always just make it work. Like all the

5:06 Speaker 1: bands I ever played, and it was like, you know,

5:08 Speaker 1: we got we got the same group of guys who

5:10 Speaker 1: are going to have to be here at every single

5:12 Speaker 1: show because if you remove one piece, it all falls apart.

5:14 Speaker 1: So it must have been it must have been cool.

5:16 Speaker 1: And to be able to use technology to to sort

5:19 Speaker 1: of give you that that flexibility.

5:22 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was a big fan of New Order,

5:24 Speaker 2: you know, growing up. Oh yeah, you know, I saw

5:26 Speaker 2: them live and it just it didn't seem like there

5:29 Speaker 2: was anything wrong with it to me, to you know,

5:32 Speaker 2: go ahead and do that. Yeah, and and it was

5:35 Speaker 2: great too, but the best. And then I went and uh,

5:39 Speaker 2: I got an electric drum kit because the frequency of

5:42 Speaker 2: the synths and then the symbol crashes, it was just

5:46 Speaker 2: piercing and it was unreal. So but i'd have I

5:52 Speaker 2: think I played with three or four drummers over the years,

5:55 Speaker 2: and it's a long time, and they'd all be like,

5:58 Speaker 2: kind of am not sure and they come over and

6:00 Speaker 2: they play that electronic drum kit and they'd be like,

6:02 Speaker 2: this is amazing. I love this. Yeah, you'd be having

6:05 Speaker 2: so much fun with all the signs, but they'd have

6:07 Speaker 2: to play with a click, right, and they didn't mind

6:10 Speaker 2: that either, you know. So it was just a lot

6:13 Speaker 2: of fun. You know. It's more the enjoyment of getting

6:16 Speaker 2: together with other people and playing. You know, we never

6:19 Speaker 2: really had the opportunity to form much. We played you know,

6:22 Speaker 2: surrounding cities, but that was about it.

6:24 Speaker 1: Do you feel like as you were doing that that

6:26 Speaker 1: the certain stigma because there are you know, even today,

6:29 Speaker 1: I mean it's gotten a lot better as as people

6:32 Speaker 1: continue to embrace technology and using technology and music. But

6:35 Speaker 1: I feel like even today, there's there's always going to

6:37 Speaker 1: be some people who just if you don't have everything

6:40 Speaker 1: completely live, if you've got someone on stage with something

6:45 Speaker 1: that is creating some sort of sound other than instruments,

6:49 Speaker 1: you know, you've got somebody up there with a laptop

6:51 Speaker 1: or whatever. There's there's always going to be certain people

6:53 Speaker 1: who are judgmental of that or using backing tracks or anything.

6:56 Speaker 1: But do you feel like over the course of your

6:59 Speaker 1: doing that, at least in the area where you were

7:02 Speaker 1: out playing live, that the you kind of overcame that.

7:05 Speaker 2: Do you think, oh yeah, because well, and then when

7:09 Speaker 2: we started, we you know, we'd be playing with bands

7:15 Speaker 2: that were ten years younger because they were already embracing that. Ye.

7:18 Speaker 2: Some you know, and some of the stuff I love now,

7:23 Speaker 2: like a group called ASO or Keep Shelling Athens. They're

7:28 Speaker 2: a singer and a DJ, so it's not even like

7:32 Speaker 2: a musician. It's a DJ who has found samples and

7:35 Speaker 2: put them all together and that type of thing. But

7:38 Speaker 2: you know, I see where people are coming from with

7:40 Speaker 2: live music. I mean, last night I was at a

7:43 Speaker 2: Hofbra house, you know, with the oompampa, and you know,

7:46 Speaker 2: and I'm watching them and the guys playing the accordion

7:49 Speaker 2: and the other guys singing, and I'm like, what talent.

7:53 Speaker 2: He makes it look so easy. So you know, I

7:56 Speaker 2: get it, you know, with all live musicians, I mean,

7:59 Speaker 2: you know, that's that's incredible skill and dedication and it

8:03 Speaker 2: keeps showing up and practicing together, and so I get

8:07 Speaker 2: the stigma. And I also you know, if I could

8:11 Speaker 2: have all live musicians, I would, but you know, life

8:15 Speaker 2: gets in the.

8:15 Speaker 1: Way, absolutely absolutely, you know, when one you're in a band.

8:18 Speaker 1: At somebody on the show, I wish I could remember

8:21 Speaker 1: who said it. Somebody on the show who had gone

8:22 Speaker 1: from being in a band to doing everything solo like

8:25 Speaker 1: like like you have done, essentially made the observation that

8:29 Speaker 1: being in a band with say you're in a band

8:31 Speaker 1: with three other people, it's like being in a relationship

8:34 Speaker 1: with three other people who are also in a relationship

8:36 Speaker 1: with three other people, and it's and that's challenging, and

8:39 Speaker 1: you've got to work with everyone's schedules and varying levels

8:42 Speaker 1: of commitment within that project, and it can be very

8:45 Speaker 1: very difficult. I mean, do you find is it less stressful?

8:50 Speaker 1: Because you've you have transitioned to doing this as a

8:52 Speaker 1: solo project. Is it Is it overall just less stressful

8:55 Speaker 1: doing it this way.

8:59 Speaker 2: I used to there, Yes, okay, well, you know, as

9:03 Speaker 2: far as writing this stuff goes, you know, I always

9:09 Speaker 2: wrote everything and then people would learn how to play

9:11 Speaker 2: what I wrote through. For the first album, did have

9:16 Speaker 2: a bass player, but even he would come over and

9:20 Speaker 2: just jam with the song for four minutes, and then

9:22 Speaker 2: I'd have to go through what he played and cut

9:25 Speaker 2: out the you know, the snippets that I really like

9:29 Speaker 2: the best and put them in order. So as far

9:32 Speaker 2: as writing the stuff goes, it was always solo. But

9:35 Speaker 2: playing live it's just more enjoyable to play with other people.

9:40 Speaker 2: When you play live, you know, it's it's it's a

9:43 Speaker 2: lot better. But you know, I don't even know if

9:46 Speaker 2: I'm gonna bother because I for a year we had

9:49 Speaker 2: a singer and a guitarist and a drummer, and then

9:52 Speaker 2: the drummer couldn't make it because of work obligations and

9:56 Speaker 2: another band, and then you know, the singer got accepted

9:59 Speaker 2: into a music program, and you know, I just was

10:04 Speaker 2: I you know, it's okay, but it's a little stressful

10:09 Speaker 2: playing out. Maybe I'll just do, you know, do a

10:12 Speaker 2: studio thing.

10:13 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. The the thing with drummers too, because you

10:15 Speaker 1: mentioned drummers, it's kind of become well, almost a running joke.

10:21 Speaker 1: But it's not even a joke. Like every band we

10:24 Speaker 1: have on the show, the drummer in the band is

10:26 Speaker 1: always in like ten other bands. Yeah, and I feel

10:30 Speaker 1: like it's I feel like it's that way everywhere. I

10:32 Speaker 1: have a theory about that. I think it's because drummers

10:35 Speaker 1: are have become so rare because you know, when you're

10:37 Speaker 1: growing up and you first become interested in music and

10:40 Speaker 1: you want to learn a musical instrument. If you approach

10:43 Speaker 1: your parents and you say, I want to pick up

10:44 Speaker 1: an instrument, but I want to learn drums, you know,

10:48 Speaker 1: if it's that or I don't know, maybe the tuba,

10:51 Speaker 1: there's a good chance they're going to try to talk

10:52 Speaker 1: you out of it because they'd rather, you know, because

10:55 Speaker 1: nobody wants all that noise in their house, you know,

10:58 Speaker 1: unless they're just very very supportive. So that's that's my theory,

11:01 Speaker 1: because yeah, I agree, Yeah, every drummer I know is

11:04 Speaker 1: in ten bands. And can you tell tell us too

11:08 Speaker 1: about I had read something you said. You were talking

11:11 Speaker 1: about how the technology, about how it it both isolates

11:16 Speaker 1: us but also helps us to make personal connections.

11:22 Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, sometimes I forget I have little deep nuggets

11:27 Speaker 2: like that. Yeah. Well, I mean, so, you know, writing

11:33 Speaker 2: the song on my own, it, uh, it can be

11:38 Speaker 2: really lonely.

11:38 Speaker 1: You know.

11:39 Speaker 2: I'd rather have this, you know, have someone else coming

11:43 Speaker 2: over and and working with them and you know, having

11:48 Speaker 2: you know, having a co writer, that would be great.

11:51 Speaker 2: You know, So that's lonely. But on the other hand,

11:55 Speaker 2: where I went to record this album, I wish I

11:58 Speaker 2: would have known about him soon, and I actually I did.

12:01 Speaker 2: A friend of mine kept urging me to go to

12:02 Speaker 2: This guy's name is Doug White, and he's got a

12:05 Speaker 2: studio called Watchman's Studio after the comic book. He had

12:09 Speaker 2: two shoegaze bands, one Macar's Pen and one called Tearwave

12:14 Speaker 2: and recorded a you know, that's like he really is

12:19 Speaker 2: Wheelhouse and he's so easy to work with. He's really

12:24 Speaker 2: reasonable to play with. And I can go in there

12:27 Speaker 2: with all my stems and you know, a raw idea

12:31 Speaker 2: and work with him for seven or eight hours and

12:33 Speaker 2: walk out with a song and recording. I'm really happy

12:36 Speaker 2: with Yeah, and that's you know, and you're bonding when

12:39 Speaker 2: you're hanging out together talking and playing and making stuff,

12:43 Speaker 2: so you know, or when we would have band practice

12:45 Speaker 2: on a Saturday morning, that was like the highlight of

12:47 Speaker 2: my week, just getting together with people I considered friends

12:50 Speaker 2: and you know, playing music and then going out and

12:55 Speaker 2: socializing and meeting other bands. So you know, your ice

13:00 Speaker 2: related kind of when you're writing, right, but you know,

13:03 Speaker 2: when you go to record or practice or play out,

13:06 Speaker 2: you get to socialize. So yeah, yeah, I think that's yeah.

13:10 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think it could be much more

13:12 Speaker 2: than that. I guess.

13:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting how and I think I think the

13:18 Speaker 1: pandemic kind of really brought this to the forefront for

13:20 Speaker 1: a lot of people because I always say, you know,

13:23 Speaker 1: that was a terrible experience for everybody, but it also

13:27 Speaker 1: we have to find these silver linings where we can.

13:29 Speaker 1: And one of the few silver linings about it was

13:32 Speaker 1: it kind of forced people to be creative in new ways,

13:35 Speaker 1: even though the technology was already there. You know, you

13:37 Speaker 1: could already send files back and forth through Dropbox or

13:39 Speaker 1: Google Drive or whatever, and you so you could you

13:42 Speaker 1: could already do all that collaborating with people from a distance,

13:45 Speaker 1: and people had been doing that, but I think the

13:48 Speaker 1: pandemic kind of forced people who maybe were averse to

13:51 Speaker 1: doing that to give it a try. And it created

13:54 Speaker 1: this entire new wave of collaboration amongst people who thought, well,

14:01 Speaker 1: this person's on the other side of the country, how

14:03 Speaker 1: am I ever going to collaborate with them? Oh, okay,

14:05 Speaker 1: well we'll give this a try. Oh turns out this

14:07 Speaker 1: works pretty well, And so I think it. You know,

14:11 Speaker 1: that was the most isolating thing that you know, we've

14:14 Speaker 1: been through, you know, was the pandemic, right, and yet

14:18 Speaker 1: and yet, because of technology, it also helped people make

14:21 Speaker 1: a lot of new connections in profound ways that allowed

14:24 Speaker 1: them to create together.

14:26 Speaker 2: And my friend's son is I don't know, twenty one,

14:29 Speaker 2: and the majority of the bands he listens to are

14:33 Speaker 2: you know, kids in their twenties early twenties, and the

14:38 Speaker 2: bands are made up of seven people and none of

14:40 Speaker 2: them are in the same city.

14:41 Speaker 1: Yep.

14:43 Speaker 2: It's you know, it's not even a big deal. It's

14:45 Speaker 2: just like how it is, right, you know. So, yeah,

14:50 Speaker 2: you know, that was the good part about the pandemic.

14:53 Speaker 2: It's interesting though, when that was finally done and we

14:55 Speaker 2: could go back to works. I remember somebody said, oh,

14:59 Speaker 2: we might have to wear mask again. And when I

15:01 Speaker 2: heard that, I realized how I didn't realize during the

15:05 Speaker 2: pandemic how much of a strain it was putting on me.

15:08 Speaker 2: It wasn't until afterwards and someone saying something that we

15:12 Speaker 2: might have to go back to you know, some of

15:15 Speaker 2: the ways we were like we thought there was going

15:17 Speaker 2: to be another wave, and I was just like, oh

15:19 Speaker 2: my god, I hated that. Yeah awful.

15:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, there were a lot of moments like that where

15:25 Speaker 1: it was like, oh, oh, maybe this is finally winding down,

15:28 Speaker 1: and maybe oh no, no it's not.

15:32 Speaker 2: Did you get it? I got it? I got I

15:34 Speaker 2: was like four or six weeks, I can't remember, you know,

15:37 Speaker 2: it was really at the first wave. Yeah, it was

15:39 Speaker 2: just it was awful.

15:41 Speaker 1: I had COVID, but not until I didn't get it

15:44 Speaker 1: until after the pandemic was kind of over, you know,

15:47 Speaker 1: and I was I was vaxed and everything, but I did.

15:49 Speaker 1: I did test positive at least on one occasion. I

15:52 Speaker 1: think eventually, eventually I dodged it for a long time though.

15:57 Speaker 2: Good but uh, you weakened or something, so I know,

16:01 Speaker 2: I wouldn't worst it on anybody.

16:03 Speaker 1: No, No, it's it's not well being being sick just

16:06 Speaker 1: generally is uh, it's my my least favorite thing about winter.

16:11 Speaker 1: But now, so how is how is your live situation now?

16:15 Speaker 1: Like are you are you performing live currently? Are you

16:18 Speaker 1: going out and playing show? No?

16:20 Speaker 2: You know, like I said, it was a year we

16:24 Speaker 2: and I think we might have even gotten more viewership.

16:27 Speaker 2: But we at band practice, we would get stuff done

16:30 Speaker 2: and then we would play something on Facebook. You know,

16:33 Speaker 2: we would actually you know, play the second half of

16:37 Speaker 2: band practice on Facebook and a number of views and

16:41 Speaker 2: the number of people who saw it. I started thinking,

16:43 Speaker 2: maybe this is better than out. But no, yeah, right now,

16:48 Speaker 2: like I said, I don't know if I really And

16:52 Speaker 2: that's the other problem too, Like you know, I can sing,

16:55 Speaker 2: but when I when it comes to playing live, I

16:58 Speaker 2: don't know. It's just I'm not impressed with what I

17:01 Speaker 2: hear when I when I play live. So I was,

17:04 Speaker 2: you know, I needn't have to practice these songs, you

17:07 Speaker 2: know a lot, you know, and I mean, you know,

17:12 Speaker 2: I I take voice lessons, you know, just to keep

17:16 Speaker 2: working on my voice. I'm not a you know, we

17:19 Speaker 2: probably can tell, but I'm not a natural singer, you know,

17:22 Speaker 2: it's more of that kind of guy from the church

17:25 Speaker 2: type of.

17:27 Speaker 1: Feel ye.

17:29 Speaker 2: So, but yeah, but losing the singer we had, and

17:32 Speaker 2: she was amazing, she was great. You know, if you

17:35 Speaker 2: want to find a singer, go to your local alternative

17:39 Speaker 2: karaoke because you'll find a lot of people are dying

17:42 Speaker 2: to find bands there.

17:43 Speaker 1: Interesting.

17:43 Speaker 2: And yeah, and but she, you know, we hadn't played

17:49 Speaker 2: out and she was starting a music program, and I

17:58 Speaker 2: just don't know if I really want to search for

18:00 Speaker 2: another band again. You know, I think I'd like to

18:02 Speaker 2: just focus on playing music and maybe even go more

18:05 Speaker 2: towards the piano. I don't know if you read that,

18:09 Speaker 2: but there's a guy named Harold Budd. He did an

18:11 Speaker 2: album with The Cocktail Twins and then he's done at

18:15 Speaker 2: least two or three albums with Robin Guthrie. But he's

18:18 Speaker 2: the guy that got me into playing piano in my

18:21 Speaker 2: early twenties. And yeah, we lost him to COVID, but

18:25 Speaker 2: he put out an album with well, he put out

18:30 Speaker 2: a lot of albums, but he put out an album

18:31 Speaker 2: with Brian Eno and the Pearl. It's called and it's

18:39 Speaker 2: just amazing, and it's gorgeous, and for the longest time

18:42 Speaker 2: I couldn't figure out what he was doing, and then

18:44 Speaker 2: I figured out he pretty much just played major seventh

18:46 Speaker 2: chords every quote he played. And that's what Robin Guthrie

18:50 Speaker 2: does for any of your listeners that are into music

18:53 Speaker 2: theory and yeah, and so there's like, I think one,

19:00 Speaker 2: there's not two. I think there's at least one piano

19:03 Speaker 2: interlude on Yeah, there's one before the last three songs

19:07 Speaker 2: on the CD on the new album, and just kind

19:10 Speaker 2: of going down more that vain. Yeah. You know, I

19:14 Speaker 2: don't know if you know like Stars of the Lid

19:16 Speaker 2: or the Cranky Label at all.

19:17 Speaker 1: No, it's kind of.

19:20 Speaker 2: It's atmosphere ambient, but it's not, you know, yoga ambient.

19:29 Speaker 2: It's got just a little bit of a twist to

19:31 Speaker 2: it when you listen.

19:33 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, but.

19:34 Speaker 2: I'm really rambling. I didn't really, I'm tired.

19:36 Speaker 1: I was, Hey, No, that's okay, that's what we do here,

19:40 Speaker 1: that's what we do. That's that's perfect. I'd much rather that.

19:44 Speaker 2: No.

19:44 Speaker 1: The worst thing is when someone comes on and they

19:46 Speaker 1: have nothing to say, which is rarest. Most musicians like

19:49 Speaker 1: to talk about music, but every once in a while.

19:50 Speaker 1: You know, we might have somebody who kind of clams

19:52 Speaker 1: up and it's like, uh.

19:55 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I feel for that person.

20:00 Speaker 1: Can you tell us you about some of the themes?

20:02 Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, you know, the music, it's

20:04 Speaker 1: got a very you know, it's got kind of a dreamy,

20:06 Speaker 1: atmospheric sort of vibe to it. But I mean, what

20:09 Speaker 1: are some of the themes that you like to write about?

20:14 Speaker 2: Well, this one, you know before, you know, when when

20:18 Speaker 2: I had a female singer, like I like to have,

20:25 Speaker 2: you know, empowered lyrics, something that was strong, something like

20:29 Speaker 2: you know, where someone was coming back from being the

20:33 Speaker 2: underdog or something like that. Yeah, And with this one,

20:38 Speaker 2: I just wanted there to be kind of like a

20:40 Speaker 2: hopeful message, you know. And but a lot of times,

20:46 Speaker 2: you know, and I wonder if this is true for most,

20:50 Speaker 2: you know, singers, I would like kind of add lib

20:52 Speaker 2: lyrics and then as I sang them and looked at

20:55 Speaker 2: them and then you know, redid them. Like you know,

20:59 Speaker 2: moments in the everybody has moments in the sun. It's

21:02 Speaker 2: just like, you know, even if things are tough, you know,

21:05 Speaker 2: you'll have good days, you know. I mean, it's not

21:08 Speaker 2: that complex of an idea. Where or Bring Love, Bring

21:13 Speaker 2: Loves a breakup song, but it's a song about accepting

21:16 Speaker 2: that that breakup, but you know it, don't really realize

21:20 Speaker 2: it until you're done kind of improvising lyrics two or

21:25 Speaker 2: three times. You know. That's the great thing about having

21:27 Speaker 2: home recording studios. You know, you've got that freedom to

21:30 Speaker 2: do that, and then you look at what you've come

21:32 Speaker 2: up with and you're like, oh, there's there's kind of

21:35 Speaker 2: a good idea here, or you know, come up with

21:37 Speaker 2: a story. We're an atmosphere of just you know, uh,

21:42 Speaker 2: you know, I really liked a lot of trip hop stuff,

21:47 Speaker 2: so just having something being kind of a little dark,

21:51 Speaker 2: you know, but yeah, but not like in the end

21:55 Speaker 2: of the world kind of way, but kind of like

21:57 Speaker 2: you know, like you know, a dark movie, like what's

22:04 Speaker 2: that Black Mirror something like that.

22:07 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I haven't seen that, but I it comes

22:11 Speaker 1: up in conversation though with people. So I people have

22:13 Speaker 1: told me I would enjoy it.

22:15 Speaker 2: Yeah, you go back to I wouldn't. I'd skipped the

22:18 Speaker 2: very very first episode, but I go back to the

22:22 Speaker 2: British show first and check it out.

22:25 Speaker 1: Yeah.

22:25 Speaker 2: So yeah, So either something that's kind of a dark

22:29 Speaker 2: twist a little halloween ish or something that's got a

22:33 Speaker 2: you know, a hopeful message on one or the other. Yeah,

22:36 Speaker 2: generally seems what comes out, you know, things will be okay.

22:41 Speaker 1: I'm also curious too about So your newest is an EP,

22:46 Speaker 1: but why so Moments in the Sun is an EP.

22:49 Speaker 1: But Tiger, the previous release was, was a full album correct.

22:53 Speaker 2: Yeah, And here's why this ended up happening. And I

22:58 Speaker 2: hope you know this doesn't sound bad, but something got

23:04 Speaker 2: messed up on the last three songs of Tiger where

23:09 Speaker 2: they're all they're named wrong. The three songs are like,

23:14 Speaker 2: Moments in the Sun is Winter Streets and Winter Streets

23:19 Speaker 2: is Army of Me. So I put the EP out

23:23 Speaker 2: with you know, an extra new song, and then just

23:27 Speaker 2: to get the right names on the songs because because

23:32 Speaker 2: I know this is going to sound horrible. But if

23:36 Speaker 2: I take Tiger down and then put it back up again, yeah,

23:40 Speaker 2: well you lose all the streams. If you lose all

23:43 Speaker 2: the streams, then you're starting from scratch and your music

23:47 Speaker 2: doesn't get placed in you know, Spotify Radio or Apple

23:53 Speaker 2: Music Suggestions and that type of thing. So you know,

23:58 Speaker 2: you just it's just how the algorithm works. You know,

24:02 Speaker 2: you're kind of like going back to zero. So that

24:07 Speaker 2: is why it was done, was to try to get

24:10 Speaker 2: the right names on the songs. And yeah, so it's

24:17 Speaker 2: not the best reason to put out an EP I know.

24:22 Speaker 1: No, but it well, but it does, you know, it

24:25 Speaker 1: is illustrative of of some of the pitfalls of you know,

24:28 Speaker 1: the technology that we're working with and how it works

24:30 Speaker 1: now with with streaming and everything. You know, it's there's

24:33 Speaker 1: all there's a lot that can go wrong, and you know,

24:35 Speaker 1: a lot of musicians and industry people listen to the show.

24:38 Speaker 1: So it's it's kind of a good lesson, you know,

24:41 Speaker 1: something to be aware of. And you're right, I mean,

24:43 Speaker 1: you know, practically speaking, yeah, you you know, you could,

24:46 Speaker 1: you could take it down and then put it back

24:47 Speaker 1: up with but then, yeah, like you said, you you

24:50 Speaker 1: lose you know, you don't want to lose whatever momentum

24:54 Speaker 1: you've you've built, whatever equity you've built in that with

24:56 Speaker 1: the algorithms, you know.

24:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know, you know that long tail theory.

25:00 Speaker 2: You know, just you know, you keep getting you know,

25:04 Speaker 2: because you know, I'm not gonna make any money off this,

25:09 Speaker 2: and I'm not going to be famous. The goal is

25:11 Speaker 2: I I when I was a kid, when I was

25:14 Speaker 2: like twelve, I discovered Echo and the Bunny Man and

25:17 Speaker 2: I was able to, you know, get a CD or

25:21 Speaker 2: an album once a month, and I was, you know,

25:24 Speaker 2: no Internet, and I thought they were the coolest band.

25:27 Speaker 2: I didn't realize there was a whole genre called goth

25:29 Speaker 2: where there was other stuff like them. And I got

25:31 Speaker 2: the Heaven up Here album and I remember as a kid,

25:36 Speaker 2: my whole motivation to make music was that I just

25:40 Speaker 2: want to make something that fits like a niche, you know,

25:44 Speaker 2: in someone's record collection. Yeah, you know, like you know,

25:47 Speaker 2: and just make something. You know, anytime I get a

25:52 Speaker 2: new follower on YouTube or someone picks up the music

25:56 Speaker 2: on dan Camp, I am just thrilled that I made

25:59 Speaker 2: something that someone liked enough to spend their time listening to.

26:05 Speaker 2: You know, I'm like, oh, I'm giving, you know, paying

26:08 Speaker 2: forward what these bands that at the time were obscure.

26:12 Speaker 2: You know, I know from Danny Derko and everything that

26:15 Speaker 2: you know more, everybody you know knows who the bunny

26:18 Speaker 2: Men are now, but back then, no one you know,

26:21 Speaker 2: had a clue that they were. So I don't know

26:25 Speaker 2: if that makes sense. I feel like I'm kind of rambling,

26:27 Speaker 2: but you know that that's the goal is do it

26:31 Speaker 2: for myself because I love it. And then I just

26:34 Speaker 2: really hope someone out there enjoys it.

26:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, very well said, yeah, absolutely, that's what

26:40 Speaker 1: it's all about. And then so in a moment, well,

26:45 Speaker 1: it's been wonderful speaking with you this morning.

26:47 Speaker 2: We'll thank you so much for having me on.

26:49 Speaker 1: Well, definitely have you back in the future. I do

26:51 Speaker 1: want to. And in a moment, we'll play, uh, we'll

26:53 Speaker 1: play this track never had a Heart from Tiger, but

26:58 Speaker 1: from the Tiger album. But where should Where's the best

27:02 Speaker 1: place to go Richard for people to keep up with

27:03 Speaker 1: everything that you're doing, with everything all things Dots and Moon.

27:06 Speaker 1: Where should people go?

27:09 Speaker 2: Probably between band camp and I know it's not the

27:13 Speaker 2: most popular place, but the Dots and Moon page on Facebook,

27:17 Speaker 2: it's probably the best place to follow and keep track

27:22 Speaker 2: of stuff coming out, so you know, singles.

27:25 Speaker 1: In that Okay, okay, wonderful.

27:27 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, because I have a website, but it'll

27:30 Speaker 2: just send you to those places Instagram or you know,

27:32 Speaker 2: or social media.

27:33 Speaker 1: Sites, gotcha, gotcha? Yeah, speaking of algorithms and all that.

27:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then band Camp because you know, I try

27:41 Speaker 2: not to send much out, but you know, if you're

27:43 Speaker 2: a follower on band camp, then I can send a

27:46 Speaker 2: message out, you know, all the followers saying, oh, there's

27:50 Speaker 2: a new EP out or there's a new video out.

27:53 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, absolutely, what wonderful, wonderful. And then so we're

27:57 Speaker 1: going to end the segment with I Never had a

27:59 Speaker 1: Heart from your your previous release Tiger, And this is

28:02 Speaker 1: one of the ones that you had mentioned when you

28:05 Speaker 1: when you email Jenny, what what a special like? What

28:07 Speaker 1: should we know about this song? Why? Why is this

28:09 Speaker 1: one of the ones you chose?

28:11 Speaker 2: Well? I like because it's really upbeat, you know, yeah,

28:14 Speaker 2: moves along. But also it's not negative like the title

28:18 Speaker 2: would you'd think it's actually goes you know, heaven never

28:21 Speaker 2: hit a heart like yours. And it's just someone is

28:26 Speaker 2: just so amazing that even you know, uh, the image

28:31 Speaker 2: of having like pales in comparison to someone who's just

28:35 Speaker 2: a great person to be around.

28:37 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it's a great concept. I love it. I

28:39 Speaker 1: love it all right, So we're gonna play that in

28:41 Speaker 1: a moment. We'll let you go. But Richard from Dots

28:44 Speaker 1: and Moon, thank you so much.

28:45 Speaker 2: Like I said to you, I really appreciate it.

28:47 Speaker 1: Absolutely well. We'll have you back when when you've got

28:49 Speaker 1: some new stuff. We'll definitely have you back on love,

28:51 Speaker 1: love what you're doing. Keep up the great work, and uh,

28:54 Speaker 1: good luck with whatever weather you're experiencing right in that

29:00 Speaker 1: part of New York.

29:02 Speaker 2: Alright, all right, we'll take care and thank you for

29:04 Speaker 2: having me on. I appreciate it.

29:06 Speaker 1: You got it. We'll talk to you soon. Take care, bye,

29:08 Speaker 1: bye bye.

29:09 Speaker 2: All right.

29:09 Speaker 1: That is Richard from Dots and Moon. I do love

29:12 Speaker 1: this project so much, and we're gonna play this. This

29:14 Speaker 1: is from the previous release Tiger Now. This is called

29:18 Speaker 1: Never Had a Heart